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Hitting Up or Down with the Driver in an Inline Pattern - Page 13

post #217 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by trickyputt View Post

This talk of one best shot from driver is kinda limiting on the course, but it is interesting as a theoretical limit type thing.

It's how the game's best players play. They hit their stock shot 95%+ of the time. If they need to shape their tee shots, many will hit a club other than their driver (Chris DiMarco pointed out in his Playing Lessons on Golf Channel that he can't reliably draw his driver, so if he needs to hit a draw, he hits his 3W).

Very, very few pros curve the ball with any club opposite their normal shape more than 10% of the non-trouble-shot/specialty-shot times (i.e. 13 at Augusta National is a specialty shot).
Quote:
Originally Posted by trickyputt View Post

I am going try to disprove the usefulness of @iacas idea, as I play the draw because it goes further than a fade for me right now.

It goes farther for you because you likely deliver less loft when you hit a draw. I can easily make the case that a pull-fade goes farther than a push-draw. You likely hit something close to a straight-fade and pull-draws.
That is really eye opening stuff! I hadnt thought about it in that light. I see the shot shapes on tv, but thought of it more as an intention shape where it must be more of a club selection.
post #218 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

Although my driver might be the subject of ridicule (A Ping G15 modified with a steel shaft DG X100 with 44gm of weight near the heel), the loft up concept really works well.

 

I swing slower and with a lot more launch with a 3" from the ground tee height (3.5" tee), and the ball really goes high and far. Then I can see tons of bounce even with range balls. I can honestly say that I added 10-15 yards (range balls) with the increased launch. My ability to launch higher is due to the club modifications I made that allow me to swing more naturally.


Wow, that is a lot of added weight near the heel! Just out of interest, do you find that you get a draw 'gear effect' from the added weight?

post #219 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris3putt View Post


Wow, that is a lot of added weight near the heel! Just out of interest, do you find that you get a draw 'gear effect' from the added weight?
I hooked a lot of shots, and sliced a few when not swinging at my normal speed.

When I got on the driving range, the tape came off just when I was making full speed swings.

So, two shots were pretty good before the tape ripped off.
post #220 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wangus94 View Post

I must have too much speed I guess ...lol.,Weird:-P you'd think the tour guys would getting those numbers if it was so easily attainable. I was also told the center of gravity is all over the place in drivers and much smaller than people realize. Hard to believe a mass-produced product has such tight tolerances and QC to control exactly where the center of gravity is on the face . I demo'd that club and there were no obvious noticeable differences ... my Trackman numbers weren't radically different either. I think the real motivation by TM is to push more product by being to claim their product goes further than the next OEMs... The typical chop is distance obsessed anyway and the marketing guys know this. Business 101.

 

Tour guys have enough speed where they aren't worried about maxing out their distance at the expense of some accuracy. Lower spin lofts go further, but obviously also make it easier to tilt the spin axis. Hitting up is more and more important as someone's SS goes down generally, but I guess if you're a high SS player(let's say 110+) and want to hit it further, you could also focus on it. Some players run into trouble with consistent contact if they get far away from 0, like +3 and higher(and conversely the same thing for really negative), but it's pretty hard for most to achieve that positive with driver naturally anyway. It's all about matching your dynamics towards what you want from your game. Someone at -3 is going to be more accurate apples to apples than someone at +3, but they're leaving A LOT of yards on the table. All about finding the "sweet spot" between hitting it far and hitting it relatively accurately. 

post #221 of 237
Thx man that makes a lot of sense.... I seem to be best around that -1 number.
post #222 of 237

Actually hitting with a positive AoA takes some more keys, I think.

 

I was attempting to hit with a more positive AoA by just moving the ball up in my stance. However, even with the ball setup in front of my lead foot I managed to hit with a negative AoA.

 

So, I did a lot more research on this matter, and learned a little interesting tidbit. In order to have a positive AoA, you need to maintain the spine angle to the ground throughout the swing. To that end, I tried to maintain my spine angle relative to the ground. This seemed to help, the balls were coming off the face "straighter". This is with my Ping G15 X100 shaft. I have no idea how far I was driving, so I'll stick with the 225 carry figure.

 

This was only the first session that I saw some very positive results.

post #223 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

Actually hitting with a positive AoA takes some more keys, I think.

 

I was attempting to hit with a more positive AoA by just moving the ball up in my stance. However, even with the ball setup in front of my lead foot I managed to hit with a negative AoA.

 

So, I did a lot more research on this matter, and learned a little interesting tidbit. In order to have a positive AoA, you need to maintain the spine angle to the ground throughout the swing. To that end, I tried to maintain my spine angle relative to the ground. This seemed to help, the balls were coming off the face "straighter". This is with my Ping G15 X100 shaft. I have no idea how far I was driving, so I'll stick with the 225 carry figure.

 

This was only the first session that I saw some very positive results.

If you're carrying it 225, why do you play an x100 in a driver

post #224 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinhigh27 View Post
 

If you're carrying it 225, why do you play an x100 in a driver


I started with this shaft just because it was heavier, and I hit the same spot on the face more often.

 

The G15 driver had three shafts put into it: Ping TFC129 regular shaft from a G10; Ping stock Aldila 65 Stiff; X200 and the X100 shaft. The X100 is the one that gave me the best results and gives me 225 carry, and sometimes further on the course. The main thing is they go relatively straight.

 

Probably will visit the fitter again once I get this swing dialed in. My swing is relatively smooth, so even the regular shaft is probably fine. That's not the issue.

post #225 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

Actually hitting with a positive AoA takes some more keys, I think.

 

I was attempting to hit with a more positive AoA by just moving the ball up in my stance. However, even with the ball setup in front of my lead foot I managed to hit with a negative AoA.

 

So, I did a lot more research on this matter, and learned a little interesting tidbit. In order to have a positive AoA, you need to maintain the spine angle to the ground throughout the swing. To that end, I tried to maintain my spine angle relative to the ground. This seemed to help, the balls were coming off the face "straighter". This is with my Ping G15 X100 shaft. I have no idea how far I was driving, so I'll stick with the 225 carry figure.

 

This was only the first session that I saw some very positive results.

 

For you specifically you know your tendency is to get the shaft steep at A5 and outside the hands at A6, that would be the first place I would look in terms of shallowing things out.

post #226 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

For you specifically you know your tendency is to get the shaft steep at A5 and outside the hands at A6, that would be the first place I would look in terms of shallowing things out.

That's exactly the change I made after the fitting. I became more aware of this fact, or I should say that my body has finally gotten the feel for this.

When was cold (not seriously warmed up with 120 balls or so), my spine angle was not maintained relative to the ground.

As of Saturday afternoon, my body suddenly became aware of this, and I am able to feel something wrong in my setup and at the top (A5?). Now, my shots are much cleaner and "straighter" off the face.

The other change I made as of Saturday is to use my MP32 clubs. They are the most comfortable clubs to help me maintain my spine angle. As soon as I start with my pitching wedge, my A5 position feels better. This is also the club I bring to our lessons.

I would classify this as a breakthrough. Until, i got my fitting I did not know how much spin I had on my driver. When I realized this fact, i researched the heck out of it and came to the conclusion it was my missing keys.
post #227 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post


That's exactly the change I made after the fitting. I became more aware of this fact, or I should say that my body has finally gotten the feel for this.

When was cold (not seriously warmed up with 120 balls or so), my spine angle was not maintained relative to the ground.

As of Saturday afternoon, my body suddenly became aware of this, and I am able to feel something wrong in my setup and at the top (A5?). Now, my shots are much cleaner and "straighter" off the face.

The other change I made as of Saturday is to use my MP32 clubs. They are the most comfortable clubs to help me maintain my spine angle. As soon as I start with my pitching wedge, my A5 position feels better. This is also the club I bring to our lessons.

I would classify this as a breakthrough. Until, i got my fitting I did not know how much spin I had on my driver. When I realized this fact, i researched the heck out of it and came to the conclusion it was my missing keys.

 

Most common problem with AMs is being steep. Either they EE to make up for it and this leads to it's own set of problems, or they don't and are just really steep and get a poor flight. Haven't seen many if any players that have a shallow approach without EE that aren't good strikers. 

post #228 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinhigh27 View Post
 

 

Most common problem with AMs is being steep. Either they EE to make up for it and this leads to it's own set of problems, or they don't and are just really steep and get a poor flight. Haven't seen many if any players that have a shallow approach without EE that aren't good strikers. 

 

Yup, too steep. The worst part about this is that I am flexible enough to maintain this angle, and not I am. It will take another month for me to work to maintain it. I am going to work on it on the course tomorrow morning, I doubt that my scores will be adversely affected unless it's from over hitting greens. :-D

 

BTW, what's "EE"? I'm guessing the meaning has something to do with spine angle and or hitting in line?

post #229 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

BTW, what's "EE"? I'm guessing the meaning has something to do with spine angle and or hitting in line?

Early Extension, or "Goat Humping."

 

 

I worked on less humping this morning...

post #230 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

Early Extension, or "Goat Humping."

 

 

I worked on less humping this morning...

 

I needed to look this up. I guess it's a key 1 issue. If you thrust you hips early or stand up too soon, this is probably related to not having a steady head?

post #231 of 237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

I needed to look this up. I guess it's a key 1 issue. If you thrust you hips early or stand up too soon, this is probably related to not having a steady head?

 

Could be a Key 1 or 2 issue, depending on what the player need to focus on. Not something you need to worry about, you don't early extend, if anything you tend to slightly do the opposite.

post #232 of 237
Thread Starter 

If players have specific questions about their attempts to hit up (or down) with an inline pattern, please keep those comments to the proper threads.

 

This thread is ever so slightly toward the "theoretical" side of things. Plus, you technically need to have an "inline pattern" before you can really begin discussing your swing anyway… :-D

post #233 of 237

How are you guys defining inline? As in swinging on the elbow plane?

post #234 of 237
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinhigh27 View Post
 

How are you guys defining inline? As in swinging on the elbow plane?

 

No. Just baseline roughly square.

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