Here you go, Roy. I'll let you out of the Penalty Box now so you can admit that you understand what we've been saying all along now.
By "swing arc" I assume you mean the (nearly) circular arc traveled by the club head on the backswing, and later on the downswing. By "square to the arc," I assume you mean that a line drawn perpendicular to the club face is at all times tangent to the arc.
It works for me. I just have to make sure that I have an extreme weak grip.
Iacas, you said....... "Roy, the simple fact of the matter is that in every golf swing, the clubface does not stay square to the plane past about the position where the shaft is horizontal to the ground on the backswing. In every golf swing (and by that I mean everybody's full golf swing, not any swing ever made), the clubface will rotate to a position that's about 90 degrees from "square to the plane."
Just a couple of points Roy mentioned he was using a very strong 4 knuckle grip and that reminded me of the Jerry Heard "super swing". Occasionally I'll have a few swings like this at the range.
Interesting grip.......super strong top hand with the thumb running down the back of the shaft so it would feel like the hammer and nail analogy that Roy was trying to pass on.
Bottom hand....also with the thumb running down the back of the shaft and the knuckles pointing towards the target.
So when you pick up the club the and swing up to the top, the clubface can stay square to the target.
It's an interesting swing method with alot of power, the only downside is you must keep the bottom hand thumb travelling down the line and not rolling over.
Also Jack Kuykendalls "E2E " swing is a swing with no wrist cock and a square to the line clubhead.
Maybe Roy was referring to something like Heards grip and swing.
Thank God i have found this thread , i have been playing like this for years but because i thought i was the only one i kept going back to the more conventional swing with poor results . my pro just kept telling me it was shut on the back swing and i kept saying no it is square to the arc !!! it just makes sense not to rotate the dam club !!
No you don't need wrist, for what ever swing you make. But fact remains, if you read this thread that the club will naturally rotate in the backswing, you can not get to a parallel position at the top with out the arms rotating, this is because you go from a straight right arm to a bent one, this naturally rotates the left forearm over and creates a 90 degree angle between the clubface and the swing path. This is why many pros are said to have the face square at the top, when the clubface matches the swing path, if you draw a line its inline, 90 degrees rotated from address. Some will have it more closed, bow wrist, some with have it open, cupped wrist, but it doesn't vary to much, not even close to getting to square.
I too would like to see that.
Since you move the club on at least two planes, question is which one you would be square to.
If it is or not dosnt matter if your able to improve your impact.
People simply put dont understand the plane and the Hogan reference many quote is highly flawed.
Its just physically impossible to make a full backswing and keep the clubface square to the target, unless your double jointed or can dislocated your arms with out any problems afterwards, its not possible. If your willing to accept that you can make a 90 degree shoulder turn, keeping the clubface square, the club will not be at the top of the swing, your arms at most will be shoulder height. If your willing to accept that as the length of your swing, then more power to ya.
sorry guys i do not proclaim to be a golf guru or how the swing really works but the only way i can describe the feeling is if i stood in front of you and told you to smack me with the back of your left hand you prob would not rotate it first it would just simple swing back like a door and back through on one axis , try it , stand there and pretend to slap someone with the back of your left hand . That is the feeling i have in my swing with shoulder turn , with short irons i sometimes dont need much shoulder turn , but i can not do it without a strong grip . (cup the left wrist i guess ) rather than rotate
Now i am not saying it does stay square ? but it feels like it and i def dont rotate my forearm..
ps , i dont want any abuse because this is just how i feel my swing
i am a quite athletic 40 year old and can get the club past par with this swing , i prob will struggle with it when older i dont deny that :(
i have also used the conventional swing where i rotate my forearm