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Ball too close to body...what does it cause?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

Cause: Ball positioned too close to body.  Effects: ???

 

 

post #2 of 15

can cause a variety of things...pending where in your stance everything from a hook draw, huge slice...

post #3 of 15

To close, you don't give room for your hands,

 

So it can cause you to push your hands out, bringing in shanks

It can cause you to reroute your club to an over the top

 

 

Why you think your to close? How much distance is there from your hands to your thighs?

post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

To close, you don't give room for your hands,

 

So it can cause you to push your hands out, bringing in shanks

It can cause you to reroute your club to an over the top

 

 

Why you think your to close? How much distance is there from your hands to your thighs?



 First of all i have had an incredibly hard time with being able to turn in my backswing.  sway city...never been able to shake the habit.   and now that i changed to a more bent over posture  definately fighting for room...

 

but when i should have my arms dangled straight down, they were farther in than that.  with my PW, i barely have room for my hand to fit between my top hand and my crotch.

 

does the club being so close to you cause the swing to pretty much start underplane...and have to come in underplane? 

 

and so would it be commonly necassary for someone changing to a more bent over setup to need to adjust their ball position farther out? 

post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 

oh, but my point in asking the original question was just to see if there were some general things that a close ball position can cause...

 

and if one of them was an inability to turn in the backswing, swaying..and maybe some chunks.

 

anything else...low ball flight?  steep AoA? etc.

 

you hear about ball forward and back ball position so much, but not so much about the distance from the body.

post #6 of 15

It can cause problems, yes. If you have a camera or mirror, you can check your positions yourself. Here is an example:

 

Me to the left got the ball too close. This force me to get the hands closer to the body. It give less room for the hands and arms, which can cause compensations somewhere else. The vertical swing path will also get steeper, making it harder to keep the clubface on plane. It also affects the lie angle, a steeper swing will put the toe more down, causing mishits.

 

You will of course get closer to the ball with a shorter club. Clubs used below are mostly 6 irons.

 

 

t8xoyf.jpg

 

A mirror is very useful and easy to use. If you are on the range or course, you can let a sweater arm, rope or something hang from your back and over your shoulders. The arm or rope will hang straight down towards the ground. If the ball is too close to you, the end of the rope won't touch your arms. The fix is to move the arms more forward so the rope touch them. Imagine me and the others on the picture above having a rope hanging over the right shoulder. It would not touch my arms, but it would on the rest of them with 7-10º of positive angle. Moving the hands forward will also affect your hands a bit since the angle between your arms and the club shaft will increase (become closer to straight). With a mid-iron having a positive angle of about 5-10º is good, though there are always exceptions of course. You want to avoid getting inside a negative angle.

 

Here is another tip which can make working on this easier at the range. Find a stick of some sort, preferably one with a flat side so it will lie still on the ground. Make a mark on the stick in one end as reference point at your feet, or just use the end of it. Use a mirror to find a good ball position and mark it on the stick. Do this with 3-4 clubs and you are all set. You don't have to use it on every shot, but when in doubt at the range, it can be a useful thing to have. If you got a dowel or roadway stick in the bag while practicing, those can be used as well. Regardless of how you do it, it is something you have to keep focus on if you have a problem with it. It will take some time getting used to. The good thing is that this is not a swing issue, so you don't have to think about it while swinging, only when taking your address position.

 

ball_position.png


Edited by Zeph - 3/15/11 at 6:00am
post #7 of 15

To me, arms hanging down should be, hands under chin.

 

Also, setting up with weight to much on your heels can bring you closer to the ball, because you will feel like your further away. I found myself to close, probably half a balls length to close, and it was messing up my swing. I tucked my hips back more, so i was ablt to be more over the balll and had my arms more away from my body, i was able to get good space between my hands and my thighs.

 

 

post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 

awesome posts, guys...both of those really answered my questions.  zeph, you are a beast.  you beyond answered anything i needed clarification on.  i might print this off.  and saevel, im going to check my posture.  i have a tendency to get my hips underneath myself and not tucked back well.

 

thanks a bunch, guys.

post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph View Post

It can cause problems, yes. If you have a camera or mirror, you can check your positions yourself. Here is an example:

 

Me to the left got the ball too close. This force me to get the hands closer to the body. It give less room for the hands and arms, which can cause compensations somewhere else. The vertical swing path will also get steeper, making it harder to keep the clubface on plane. It also affects the lie angle, a steeper swing will put the toe more down, causing mishits.

 

You will of course get closer to the ball with a shorter club. Clubs used below are mostly 6 irons.

 

 

t8xoyf.jpg

 

A mirror is very useful and easy to use. If you are on the range or course, you can let a sweater arm, rope or something hang from your back and over your shoulders. The arm or rope will hang straight down towards the ground. If the ball is too close to you, the end of the rope won't touch your arms. The fix is to move the arms more forward so the rope touch them. Imagine me and the others on the picture above having a rope hanging over the right shoulder. It would not touch my arms, but it would on the rest of them with 7-10º of positive angle. Moving the hands forward will also affect your hands a bit since the angle between your arms and the club shaft will increase (become closer to straight). With a mid-iron having a positive angle of about 5-10º is good, though there are always exceptions of course. You want to avoid getting inside a negative angle.

 

Here is another tip which can make working on this easier at the range. Find a stick of some sort, preferably one with a flat side so it will lie still on the ground. Make a mark on the stick in one end as reference point at your feet, or just use the end of it. Use a mirror to find a good ball position and mark it on the stick. Do this with 3-4 clubs and you are all set. You don't have to use it on every shot, but when in doubt at the range, it can be a useful thing to have. If you got a dowel or roadway stick in the bag while practicing, those can be used as well. Regardless of how you do it, it is something you have to keep focus on if you have a problem with it. It will take some time getting used to. The good thing is that this is not a swing issue, so you don't have to think about it while swinging, only when taking your address position.

 

ball_position.png

I'm really glad I saw this post.  How far or close the ball is from my feet has been an issue of mine for a long time, but for some reason it never occurred to me to specifically measure my angles.

 

Something that strikes me about those photos is that the angle of bend in the waist seems very consistent between the different players, as well.  Do you know what the average amount of waist bend for good players is?


 

 

post #10 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by laxbballgolf View Post

Something that strikes me about those photos is that the angle of bend in the waist seems very consistent between the different players, as well.  Do you know what the average amount of waist bend for good players is?



I don't think finding an average from good players will give an indication of what your angle should be. If so, it would happen by random chance. The amount of waist bend depends on what club you are hitting, your height, club length, swing style and probably some other things too. There are variations among good players. You can probably find that many players share the angles and use it as a guideline to individuals, but one must always allow room for differences. It's more about looking at the positions of the player and find a good angle with the variations I mentioned in mind.

post #11 of 15

What waist bend?  I thought that in a good setup posture there is only hip bend and knee bend.

post #12 of 15
Zephyr is is a huge help....thank. You. Are you saying a positive angle of 5-10 is good for all clubs...or does it change?
post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by westcyderydin View Post

Cause: Ball positioned too close to body.  Effects: ???

 

 

 

Fat shots.   This is the typical fault with those who hit their irons fat, probably because the swing becomes steep, with an over-the-top approach and out-to-in attack.  At address, if you lower the club, the butt should touch the thigh just above the knee cap.

This is an intermittent fault I have had for years, especially when I do not play for a while ( every winter where I live !) and I have to remind myself to stand further away----it instantly cures the "fats".

post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackLee View Post

What waist bend?  I thought that in a good setup posture there is only hip bend and knee bend.

 

Your hit is part of the waist, stop nit picking

 

I personally like varying my golf stance, keeping the ball close to the same area, it works out for me. 

 

The effect of standing to close could be a lot of different shots, fat, thins, shanks. This is because your mind is saying, hit ball first, but your body is in the way. So you will have to come out of the shot, meaning, butt gets closer to the ball so your hands can get through. This will cause thin shots, if you don't you can hit fat, and sometimes people come over the top to get room for the hands, and the shank it. So, it depends. 

post #15 of 15
Read this thread with interest. After one of my worst ever range sessions last week, and knowing I was going to play a nice course today, I hit the range before the round.

I made sure to stay back a bit from the ball.

Got much better contact all day. Very few thins fats and shanks.
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