I Love Hitting a Fade! - Page 4

My natural ball flight with my driver is generally a fade, and with my scoring irons my miss is usually a push fade, but unless I need to bend it into a green I prefer neither a fade nor a draw.  I like the ball the start where I want it and go damn straight so it finishes where I want it!

Exactly, "Loosely" considered...and it couldn't be more wrong.  Most people think that ALL tour pros stock shot is a draw...not true...it's actually the complete opposite.  I don't think people understand what a stock shot it.  Stock shot is a shot that you feel most comfortable hitting in pressure situations.   Tiger, Mickelson, Anthony Kim, Mcilroy, Jb Holmes, Couples, Nicklaus and so on all hit a fade as their go to or stock shot.   Tour Pros hit fades as their "stock" shot because it is a more controlled due to less hand action...they are constantly trying to avoid the dreaded hook.  Yes, they will draw the ball as well but that is because they are freaking tour pros and are able to do it...some better than others.   There are tour pros that fade it all over the course.  And there isn't a 10 handicapper in the entire world that can consistently control both shot shapes...if there is, he must have THE worst short game on the entire planet.  And all I was trying to say on my previous post was to go with what god gave you until you are in the low single digits.  if you hit a slice, work on turning it into a controlled fade.  If your miss is a hook, work on turning that into a controlled 4-5 yard draw.        
 

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Originally Posted by Chief Broom 

There is a big difference between a controlled fade and a slice.  I think some of this bias comes from the fact that the typical miss for the average high handicapper is a slice.  Whereas after that high-capper learns more about the game and improves they are able to turn that slice into a draw.  So in a way hitting a draw can loosely be considered the "stock" shot shape of the more accomplished golfer.  

People Like that remind me of the guy in the Wilson Staff commercials.  Seriously?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by i-Guy 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhwmusic 

And all I was trying to say on my previous post was to go with what god gave you until you are in the low single digits.  if you hit a slice, work on turning it into a controlled fade.  If your miss is a hook, work on turning that into a controlled 4-5 yard draw.        
 

 

I don't disagree, but I think there is a fundamental difference between the controlled fade pros hit and the fade (formally slice) most amateurs hit.  I used my fade/slice to fairly good effect insofar as it got me down to a 15hdc, but then my progress stalled.  That's because my fade/slice was caused by a dramatic over the top swing that had me cutting across the ball.  Those pros you mention hit a fade while swinging on plane and manipulate their shot shape by contrasting their face angle at impact with their swing path. Not to say some of those pros didn't aim as far left as I did when I compensated for my slice, but their ball flight and it's characteristics were dramatically different.  Nicklaus and Trevino both could aim way left but their ball was starting out much closer to their intended line and generally speaking didn't fade an overly dramatic amount (not that they couldn't hit the banana ball when necessary).  My ball flight was probably turning a good 50yrds or more (easily more) because my swing fundamentals were unsound and certainly couldn't produce their kind of power.   When you swing on plane with good fundamentals even a small person like Ricky Fowler can easily hit a 300+yrd tee shot.  That OTT swinger, even a big guy, is doing good to get one out there 200-250yds and that's swinging out of his shoes.  

My point is many golfers start out with poor fundamentals and mechanics, and as a general rule slice the ball dramatically, but over time figure out (through trial and error or lessons) how to generate power and that usually means that the dramatic slice disappears and is replaced by the draw (or a true power fade).

I wasn't disagreeing with you either.  And I agree there is a difference between tour pros and amateurs fades...I never said anything about them being the same.  I think you are reading too far into my post.    And Trevino didn't really hit a fade...he hit a straight ball push.  And rickie Fowler doesn't really have the greatest fundamentals to follow...nor does he stay on plane throughout is swing.  It is a completely home made loopy swing that I wouldn't tell anyone to try and copy.  But the sad thing is, there are a bunch of kids wearing orange flat brim hats trying to swing like him...instead of copying people like Rory Mcilroy who has the best swing on the planet.  There is nothing wrong with copying...I actually urge the kids that I teach to do this...as long as that person doesn't swing like JD.   

And yes, most amateurs do have poor fundamentals.  But hitting a draw or fade isn't based solely on fundamentals.  You can take two people who are just starting out and give them the exact same grip, same setup, same clubs and so on, but that doesn't mean they are both going to naturally hit a draw.  It has a lot to do with body type, flexibility, swing speeds.  The factors are endless.   People need to stop being so obsessed with this " on plane" swing that has 85% of you golfers will never accomplish because your bodies won't allow it.  What happened to being athletic and putting the club face on the ball?  Worry about that first.  people are watching too much Golf Channel and reading too many golf magazines and then going to the range and trying all this crap they read.  Some of these guys are trying so hard to be "on plane" that there swings become rigid and they can't hit the ball out of their shadow.  Don't be a ROBOT!!!  Be athletic!       
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Broom 

 

I don't disagree, but I think there is a fundamental difference between the controlled fade pros hit and the fade (formally slice) most amateurs hit.  I used my fade/slice to fairly good effect insofar as it got me down to a 15hdc, but then my progress stalled.  That's because my fade/slice was caused by a dramatic over the top swing that had me cutting across the ball.  Those pros you mention hit a fade while swinging on plane and manipulate their shot shape by contrasting their face angle at impact with their swing path. Not to say some of those pros didn't aim as far left as I did when I compensated for my slice, but their ball flight and it's characteristics were dramatically different.  Nicklaus and Trevino both could aim way left but their ball was starting out much closer to their intended line and generally speaking didn't fade an overly dramatic amount (not that they couldn't hit the banana ball when necessary).  My ball flight was probably turning a good 50yrds or more (easily more) because my swing fundamentals were unsound and certainly couldn't produce their kind of power.   When you swing on plane with good fundamentals even a small person like Ricky Fowler can easily hit a 300+yrd tee shot.  That OTT swinger, even a big guy, is doing good to get one out there 200-250yds and that's swinging out of his shoes.  

 

My point is many golfers start out with poor fundamentals and mechanics, and as a general rule slice the ball dramatically, but over time figure out (through trial and error or lessons) how to generate power and that usually means that the dramatic slice disappears and is replaced by the draw (or a true power fade).

IMO, players get too hung up on certain myths "defining" a good golfer.  For instance, myths such as; good golfers draw the ball, good golfers play blades, good golfers miss putts on the high side, good golfers play from the blue (or further back tee boxes), etc. all don't mean a hill of beans if the player has poor swing mechanics. I don't need to look any further than myself to know that the above myths aren't worth the breath to speak them when it comes defining a good golfer.

Draw (check), blades--albeit just the lower irons because I have a blended set (check), missing putts on the high side (check), play from the blue tee boxes (check)...yet, I wouldn't put myself into the category of a good golfer.  Fortunately, my ballstriking has improved over the past year and my putting has been very good, hence, my handicap dropped into the single digit last year.  However, my ballstriking ability is still too suspect at this point for me to consider myself a good golfer.  If I had to grade myself on ballstriking--using a scale where an A is a scratch golfer and an F is a brand new golfer, I'd rate myself a pretty decent C+.

Great for you Ben! That's how golf should be enjoyed. I'm into fades too. But these time I'm trying hard for my swings..

Dude, Mcilroy hits a draw on almost every shot. Usually big push draws, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhwmusic 

Exactly, "Loosely" considered...and it couldn't be more wrong.  Most people think that ALL tour pros stock shot is a draw...not true...it's actually the complete opposite.  I don't think people understand what a stock shot it.  Stock shot is a shot that you feel most comfortable hitting in pressure situations.   Tiger, Mickelson, Anthony Kim, Mcilroy, Jb Holmes, Couples, Nicklaus and so on all hit a fade as their go to or stock shot.   Tour Pros hit fades as their "stock" shot because it is a more controlled due to less hand action...they are constantly trying to avoid the dreaded hook.  Yes, they will draw the ball as well but that is because they are freaking tour pros and are able to do it...some better than others.   There are tour pros that fade it all over the course.  And there isn't a 10 handicapper in the entire world that can consistently control both shot shapes...if there is, he must have THE worst short game on the entire planet.  And all I was trying to say on my previous post was to go with what god gave you until you are in the low single digits.  if you hit a slice, work on turning it into a controlled fade.  If your miss is a hook, work on turning that into a controlled 4-5 yard draw.        
 

 

There are some players who it a pull fade, i believe Colin Montgomery did. I believed Jack hit a push fade, and some players hit straight pushes or straight pulls, some hit pull draws. There isn't a correlation between majors, or championships won and the type of shot you play. Tiger played every shot in the bag, Jack played a push fade, Arnie played a draw. As long as you can do something over and over again the same way, you can play this game really really good. But when i talk pull fade, i am not saying a big sweeping slice. I mean, a slight pull with a slight fade. Basically a very small over the top move, with a slightly open clubface to that swing path. 

i think Paul Azinger hit a pull fade.  also, i think Martin Kaymer hits a pull fade, as does Vijay Singh at times.

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Originally Posted by Ben 

Fade for President 2012!

No thanks....I'd prefer the President position not move more to the right!