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AimPoint Green Reading - Page 15

post #253 of 398

Hi

 Thanks to all who replied.

   I'm  interested in learning this system, but If I don't trust the instrument giving me the slope, then I'd have a problem moving to the next step.

  I've always said " I wish you could take a lesson to learn how to read a green". When I read about Aimpoint, I thought it was too good to be true.

 Using spirit levels , builders levels and lasers my  whole life, I know that a nine inch level would never be trust worthy, to build any thing with any kind of  accuracy . That's why I'm skeptical about using one to find slope. I could place a nine inch level on a floor and it could read level, then move it a foot away, and that spot could be out of level.

 

 I'm going to see if I can find any info on the web showing how the level is used in finding the  slope. I'm supposed to attend a clinic Nov. 8 so I hope I can find some info soon.

 Thanks again

P.S

 Sorry for being a skeptic, old habits die hard. Maybe if I see how the level was being used, I'd be able to jump right in !  

post #254 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphs007 View Post
 

Hi

 Thanks to all who replied.

   I'm  interested in learning this system, but If I don't trust the instrument giving me the slope, then I'd have a problem moving to the next step.

  I've always said " I wish you could take a lesson to learn how to read a green". When I read about Aimpoint, I thought it was too good to be true.

 Using spirit levels , builders levels and lasers my  whole life, I know that a nine inch level would never be trust worthy, to build any thing with any kind of  accuracy . That's why I'm skeptical about using one to find slope. I could place a nine inch level on a floor and it could read level, then move it a foot away, and that spot could be out of level.

 

 I'm going to see if I can find any info on the web showing how the level is used in finding the  slope. I'm supposed to attend a clinic Nov. 8 so I hope I can find some info soon.

 Thanks again

P.S

 Sorry for being a skeptic, old habits die hard. Maybe if I see how the level was being used, I'd be able to jump right in ! 

Remember also that when you are golfing you can't use any instruments other than your feet.  Aimpoint teaches you how to do that.  The level only helps pre-round when you are trying to determine the stimp of the greens.  Heck, I don't even bother with that step much anymore because I can make a pretty decent guess just from rolling putts.

 

Of all of the things that Aimpoint has provided me to make me a better putter ... being able to precisely measure the slope with a level or bubble is way down on the list.

post #255 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphs007 View Post
 

Hi

 Thanks to all who replied.

   I'm  interested in learning this system, but If I don't trust the instrument giving me the slope, then I'd have a problem moving to the next step.

  I've always said " I wish you could take a lesson to learn how to read a green". When I read about Aimpoint, I thought it was too good to be true.

 Using spirit levels , builders levels and lasers my  whole life, I know that a nine inch level would never be trust worthy, to build any thing with any kind of  accuracy . That's why I'm skeptical about using one to find slope. I could place a nine inch level on a floor and it could read level, then move it a foot away, and that spot could be out of level.

 

 I'm going to see if I can find any info on the web showing how the level is used in finding the  slope. I'm supposed to attend a clinic Nov. 8 so I hope I can find some info soon.

 Thanks again

P.S

 Sorry for being a skeptic, old habits die hard. Maybe if I see how the level was being used, I'd be able to jump right in !  

 

@ralphs007, the level is just an aid that you use when training yourself to sense the slope. You're only "measuring" slope in a little teeny section of the green.

 

Just take the class. You're not going to find information on "how the level is used in finding the slope" because you don't do that when you're playing golf. As @Golfingdad said it would be illegal.

 

Do yourself the favor and take the class. Or, better yet, call the instructor and ask him these questions.

post #256 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Remember also that when you are golfing you can't use any instruments other than your feet.  Aimpoint teaches you how to do that.  The level only helps pre-round when you are trying to determine the stimp of the greens.  Heck, I don't even bother with that step much anymore because I can make a pretty decent guess just from rolling putts.

 

Of all of the things that Aimpoint has provided me to make me a better putter ... being able to precisely measure the slope with a level or bubble is way down on the list.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

@ralphs007, the level is just an aid that you use when training yourself to sense the slope. You're only "measuring" slope in a little teeny section of the green.

 

Just take the class. You're not going to find information on "how the level is used in finding the slope" because you don't do that when you're playing golf. As @Golfingdad said it would be illegal.

 

Do yourself the favor and take the class. Or, better yet, call the instructor and ask him these questions.

 Thank you both for taking the time to help. I'm going to stop worrying about how accurate the levels are and just take the class. It should be the first or second Saturday coming up in Nov.  It might only be another golfer and I  in the whole clinic if he can't get more golfers  to sigh up.

post #257 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphs007 View Post

 Thank you both for taking the time to help. I'm going to stop worrying about how accurate the levels are and just take the class. It should be the first or second Saturday coming up in Nov.  It might only be another golfer and I  in the whole clinic if he can't get more golfers  to sigh up.

I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Keep in mind, any system where you can find that the slope is "about 2 degrees" is automatically better than the default.

"Well, that slope looks slightly hillier than the other one, and as memory serves a slope that looks like that will do this, but I ate a hot dog for lunch so maybe the mass of my body is affecting the gravity in this direction a bit..."
post #258 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphs007 View Post
 

 

 Thank you both for taking the time to help. I'm going to stop worrying about how accurate the levels are and just take the class. It should be the first or second Saturday coming up in Nov.  It might only be another golfer and I  in the whole clinic if he can't get more golfers  to sigh up.

 

Everything will be crystal clear when you take the class. 

 

Trust me, you are going to wish you took the class sooner after you do it.

post #259 of 398

Hi

I'm all set next Saturday for my Aimpoint class ! Thanks to all who helped.

post #260 of 398
Thread Starter 
I just got an email about an upcoming beginner level aimpoint class. It has a bullet point list describing the class and at the end says "NO MORE CHARTS NECESSARY!"

Has aimpoint gotten rid of the charts?
post #261 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

Has aimpoint gotten rid of the charts?

AimPoint Express has, yes.
post #262 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

We also let any former students "audit" any of the same classes for free as space is available (and space is almost always available, as former students often help out a little too).

I know I'm responding to an older comment, but is this a universal policy? I took an AimPoint class almost three years ago and wouldn't mind a refresher.

Hearing that there's a version without the charts sounds great, too.
post #263 of 398
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post


AimPoint Express has, yes.

 

Are you able to elaborate without giving away too much?  I understand if you can't.  

 

There's just about no information about this online and the aimpoint forum has been down for quite some time now.  The only thing I have been able to find are these videos of guys using their fingers to get the read:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKqxC6CSBgs

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvyovgBb53k

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shindig View Post


I know I'm responding to an older comment, but is this a universal policy? I took an AimPoint class almost three years ago and wouldn't mind a refresher.

Hearing that there's a version without the charts sounds great, too.

 

I sent an email to my instructor asking about this and he told me to call him, but then I dropped the ball and never followed up.  I suppose I should try again as I'd like to learn the midpoint read and this express version.

post #264 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shindig View Post

I know I'm responding to an older comment, but is this a universal policy? I took an AimPoint class almost three years ago and wouldn't mind a refresher.

 

It's our policy. It's the policy of a few others. It's not universal, but it might be close? I don't really know.

 

We even allow others to audit if they took the class with someone else. Some instructors only do that if you took it from them.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shindig View Post

Hearing that there's a version without the charts sounds great, too.

 

I don't think you were saying it this way, but that's a different class, too. So no auditing the Express class if you took MidPoint. You may get a discount though - can't hurt to ask.

 

I think, FWIW, we're going to begin offering $150 classes - first Express, then MidPoint after you know express. Classes are about 90-120 minutes apiece. If you want to stop at Express, then it's $150. If you want the added accuracy of MidPoint (with the charts), it's $300 (and you can obviously mix and match which ones you use during a round).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post
 

There's just about no information about this online and the aimpoint forum has been down for quite some time now.  The only thing I have been able to find are these videos of guys using their fingers to get the read:

 

That's pretty much it. It's between 70 and 90% as accurate as AimPoint with charts ("MidPoint"), which is still probably quite a bit more accurate than "reading the green with your eyes" (whatever you wan to call that method).

 

It's relatively simple, but you still have to be there to do it, so there's not much I can share, no.

 

The AimPoint forum moved to The Facebook, btw.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post
 

I sent an email to my instructor asking about this and he told me to call him, but then I dropped the ball and never followed up.  I suppose I should try again as I'd like to learn the midpoint read and this express version.

 

He'll probably do something similar to what I've said above: recommend Express, and then that you continue on if you want the last little details that MidPoint provides.

post #265 of 398
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

The AimPoint forum moved to The Facebook, btw.

 

 

I didn't realize there were different classes.  Looking again at the email, they're charging $200 for the Express class.  I did find that John Graham is doing something more similar to what you mentioned at a nearby course:  http://www.bluemash.com/aimpoint-putting-clinic/

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

The AimPoint forum moved to The Facebook, btw.

 

Oh, thanks!  I guess I'll have to put my misgivings about facebook aside and join this group.  

 

Watching 60 minutes last night made me want to retreat from the internet and smartphones altogether, but that's not something I could ever do.

post #266 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shindig View Post

I know I'm responding to an older comment, but is this a universal policy? I took an AimPoint class almost three years ago and wouldn't mind a refresher.

 

It's our policy. It's the policy of a few others. It's not universal, but it might be close? I don't really know.

 

We even allow others to audit if they took the class with someone else. Some instructors only do that if you took it from them.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shindig View Post

Hearing that there's a version without the charts sounds great, too.

 

I don't think you were saying it this way, but that's a different class, too. So no auditing the Express class if you took MidPoint. You may get a discount though - can't hurt to ask.

 


The Express read interests me for casual rounds with family and friends to make them "less serious".

I contacted the UK guys about this as I've attended the original AimPoint (full circle read) and also the Mid-Point class when that method was released but I was told the same - I'd need to pay in full for a class again to attend the Express read class.

To be honest I thought it was a bit cheeky to expect a student to pay out a second time when the Midpoint was introduced but I bit my tongue and paid out for it anyway as I was (correctly!) told it would halve the time taken to read a putt. Is there any particular reason why previous students can't fill an un-booked space for any given clinic without having to pay out for a whole new class to learn the watered-down version of the technique we already use?

post #267 of 398
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon View Post


To be honest I thought it was a bit cheeky to expect a student to pay out a second time when the Midpoint was introduced but I bit my tongue and paid out for it anyway as I was (correctly!) told it would halve the time taken to read a putt. Is there any particular reason why previous students can't fill an un-booked space for any given clinic without having to pay out for a whole new class to learn the watered-down version of the technique we already use?

 

I kind of agree with this.  It was a stretch to pay $200 for the class in the first place, even though the information is great.  I'm reluctant to pay that again just to learn what seems like a new wrinkle. Maybe its more new information than I know, but paying another $200, or even $150 for a 2nd green reading clinic isn't very attractive to me.

 

Did you find that there was a lot of new information in the midpoint class?  Through people asking questions about the midpoint read on the aimpoint forum, I think I figured out how to do it.  

post #268 of 398

Finding out about the mid-point read was like buying a new phone and then a couple of months later a better version came out and the choice was either to stick to the original clunky old phone or pay out again for the latest and greatest.

If I'd not paid for the full read class first I'd have been happy with the cost of the mid point class by itself.

post #269 of 398
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon View Post
 

The Express read interests me for casual rounds with family and friends to make them "less serious".

To be honest I thought it was a bit cheeky to expect a student to pay out a second time when the Midpoint was introduced but I bit my tongue and paid out for it anyway as I was (correctly!) told it would halve the time taken to read a putt. Is there any particular reason why previous students can't fill an un-booked space for any given clinic without having to pay out for a whole new class to learn the watered-down version of the technique we already use?

 

To the both of you: if you're capable and happy to do MidPoint, don't pay to go to Express. It's a step down in terms of accuracy, etc. It's a different "product" but it's like you already know how to ride a two-wheeled bike, so why pay for a tricycle?

 

It's a good FIRST step for students NEW to AimPoint, but you're already on step 2 or 3.

post #270 of 398

Currently if I'm playing a casual round and don't want the seriousness of charts etc I just do a mid-point and find the zero line and then estimate from there. I'd assume the Express read is something similar but with a better way of estimating.

I completely understand AimPoint instructors trying to make as much cash as possible but I can't see how any money would be lost by letting existing mid-point students attend empty spaces in Express clinics for free (or sending them a brief description/video of the Express method). As you've said it's a step down from the mid-point anyway so I can't see any existing students paying to attend a clinic, hence no money lost by not charging existing students and if it's only empty slots being filled in existing clinics no money is lost there either?

(not directed at you specifically @iacas - Just an "in general" comment) :)

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