or Connect
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Practice Range › Instruction and Playing Tips › AimPoint Green Reading
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

AimPoint Green Reading - Page 16

post #271 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon View Post
 

I completely understand AimPoint instructors trying to make as much cash as possible but I can't see how any money would be lost by letting existing mid-point students attend empty spaces in Express clinics for free (or sending them a brief description/video of the Express method). As you've said it's a step down from the mid-point anyway so I can't see any existing students paying to attend a clinic, hence no money lost by not charging existing students and if it's only empty slots being filled in existing clinics no money is lost there either?

 

  1. A brief description/video would be terrible. One leak and blammo, no more AimPoint instructors. Plus, you still need to learn it in person. A video wouldn't do a very good job.
  2. Just because you're not displacing a student doesn't mean it's totally "free." The instructor's time is still more split. The class will tend to take longer. You might pay in the future. There's still a "cost" for you to attend, even if it's 15 minutes of the instructor's attention.
  3. Some existing students would pay to take it… because they don't actually use what they already paid for, and this method might "stick" better.

 

I dunno.

 

That said, I've SHOWN former students who paid the $200 or whatever AimPoint Express. They get the quickie, ten-minute version. There's a bit more to the class than that. But it's being positioned as the "intro" class now, and MidPoint classes won't be taught too frequently. So again, I have to almost wonder: why would you want to go? Just be happy you have the full MidPoint read. It's most accurate and quite fast.

post #272 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

To the both of you: if you're capable and happy to do MidPoint, don't pay to go to Express. It's a step down in terms of accuracy, etc. It's a different "product" but it's like you already know how to ride a two-wheeled bike, so why pay for a tricycle?

 

 

I think that's a good analogy. 

 

Like Erik said, if you're good with doing midpoint reads, stick with it, it's accurate and fast. I haven't had that much experience with Express but I can't imagine, for someone already familiar with AimPoint, that Express would be that much faster or "easier".

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

  1. Just because you're not displacing a student doesn't mean it's totally "free." The instructor's time is still more split. The class will tend to take longer. You might pay in the future. There's still a "cost" for you to attend, even if it's 15 minutes of the instructor's attention.

 

Yes and instructors pay a lot of money to become certified which I don't think many students understand. So their time should be compensated. 

post #273 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

Like Erik said, if you're good with doing midpoint reads, stick with it, it's accurate and fast. I haven't had that much experience with Express but I can't imagine, for someone already familiar with AimPoint, that Express would be that much faster or "easier".

My issue is that I never got good at using the book quickly, and never took it with me to the course. As such, I end up looking for the zero line and estimating break from there. It's a lot better than "look and guess" was, but not as great as I figure it could be. Maybe the real answer is I need to practice with the book a bit and get comfortable enough with it to use on the course.
post #274 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shindig View Post

My issue is that I never got good at using the book quickly, and never took it with me to the course. As such, I end up looking for the zero line and estimating break from there. It's a lot better than "look and guess" was, but not as great as I figure it could be. Maybe the real answer is I need to practice with the book a bit and get comfortable enough with it to use on the course.

 

I'll send you a PM.

post #275 of 408

OK, this is why AimPoint rocks!  

 

Day 4 - I made a read on a 40 foot, one plane putt for par, between 90 and 60 down.  Stimp was 10, break calculated out to be 52" interpolating.  The whole read took 15 seconds.  I had the speed dialed in pretty well.  Dead center of the hole!  This is after lipping out a 60 footer the day before.

 

My friend knows I read putts pretty well.  But he was debating its accuracy during our "5 rounds in 4 days trip".  Savannah's and Baytree greens were bumpy and the ball did not roll well.  But when we finally got to Turtle Creek and Forest Lake, the green were running true and AimPoint was, "Dead on Balls Accurate" (its an Industry term).  He stopped doubting.

post #276 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
But when we finally got to Turtle Creek and Forest Lake, the green were running true and AimPoint was, "Dead on Balls Accurate" (its an Industry term).  He stopped doubting.

 

"Oh... yea... You blend..."

 

post #277 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

 

I think that's a good analogy. 

 

Like Erik said, if you're good with doing midpoint reads, stick with it, it's accurate and fast. I haven't had that much experience with Express but I can't imagine, for someone already familiar with AimPoint, that Express would be that much faster or "easier".

 

 

Yes and instructors pay a lot of money to become certified which I don't think many students understand. So their time should be compensated. 

 

 

Just took both the "Express", and "Midpoint" lessons on Saturday.

 

Oh, I'd like to thank @iacas and @david_wedzik for their time and for a great lesson on Aimpoint. It was very informative and I can't wait to get to practicing this technique.

 

As for "Express" versus "Midpoint". I think I would primarily use "Express" for anything outside of 20-25 feet. The percentages are so low on making those putts, that the "Express" read will probably end up being quicker than having to get all the information for the "Midpoint", and doing the math for such a long distance. Even if you get a read on the chart, its a bit tricky trying to figure out the point to aim to from that far away. So, "Express" does give you an visual advantage from farther away when lining up a putt. I think both are very useful in their own way. I think up close midpoint probably ends up taking the advantage. 

 

I would like to see a study done really. Take about 10 golfers who use aimpoint. Have them each read 5-10 putts from 5 feet to 30 feet at intervals of 5 foot. Its a lot of reads, but I wonder if there is an intersect point at which Midpoint becomes more advantageous. Heck they could probably bring out a machine that would putt the balls, just have it aimed at their line. That way you are taking human putting error out of it. 

post #278 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

 

 

Just took both the "Express", and "Midpoint" lessons on Saturday.

 

Oh, I'd like to thank @iacas and @david_wedzik for their time and for a great lesson on Aimpoint. It was very informative and I can't wait to get to practicing this technique.

 

As for "Express" versus "Midpoint". I think I would primarily use "Express" for anything outside of 20-25 feet. The percentages are so low on making those putts, that the "Express" read will probably end up being quicker than having to get all the information for the "Midpoint", and doing the math for such a long distance. Even if you get a read on the chart, its a bit tricky trying to figure out the point to aim to from that far away. So, "Express" does give you an visual advantage from farther away when lining up a putt. I think both are very useful in their own way. I think up close midpoint probably ends up taking the advantage. 

 

I would like to see a study done really. Take about 10 golfers who use aimpoint. Have them each read 5-10 putts from 5 feet to 30 feet at intervals of 5 foot. Its a lot of reads, but I wonder if there is an intersect point at which Midpoint becomes more advantageous. Heck they could probably bring out a machine that would putt the balls, just have it aimed at their line. That way you are taking human putting error out of it. 

I have not done Express, but I think the midpoint method is very quick for longer putts.  I have several long putts last week and the midpoint read was right on.  Even for two plane putts the whole read was 15-20 seconds.  After a bit of practice, you can judge the distance very easily.  Then looking at the card takes a couple of seconds.

post #279 of 408
Thread Starter 
From a guy like digest article on Adam Scott's pregame prep at Augusta yesterday...

"Also before each putt, in addition to checking his alignment, Scott takes two fingers -- his pointer and middle finger -- and holds them in the air. One finger points at the hole, the other at the break. From there, he sets up and hits each putt. His instructor, brother-in-law Brad Malone, follows him closely offering a couple tips."
post #280 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

From a guy like digest article on Adam Scott's pregame prep at Augusta yesterday...

"Also before each putt, in addition to checking his alignment, Scott takes two fingers -- his pointer and middle finger -- and holds them in the air. One finger points at the hole, the other at the break. From there, he sets up and hits each putt. His instructor, brother-in-law Brad Malone, follows him closely offering a couple tips."

 

That's not exactly how it works - two fingers - but yeah, that's AimPoint Express. Dave caught two videos of him clearly doing it yesterday. Once on the practice green, once on #11 I think.

post #281 of 408
Thread Starter 

That'll be great marketing for aimpoint.  I'm a bit surprised that either more pros don't use it, or that we don't know that more pros already use it.  I know there are a few, and that some caddies learn it for their players, but with the success I've seen with it myself, I'd think it would be ubiquitous.

 

 

On another note, I've not been admitted to the facebook group for some reason.  I tried to join weeks ago.  Just sent a PM to mark, so hopefully that will help.  Having taken the original intro class, there were enough questions on the original forum along the lines of "I do x, y, z, am I doing the midpoint read correctly?" that I was able to figure that out (I think).  I'd like to try to do the same for express.  

post #282 of 408

Charles Howell III working on his express read with @John Graham

 

post #283 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

Charles Howell III working on his express read with @John Graham





Having learned both express and midpoint, I honestly didn't think I'd use express much, but 2 rounds into the season I've found that it's great for anything beyond 25' or so. I figure the make % of these putts are so low that there's not much point in extrapolating the Aimpoint chart (that stops at 20') so now I'm starting to use express for lag putts and midpoint for anything that I think is make-able.
post #284 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post

Having learned both express and midpoint, I honestly didn't think I'd use express much, but 2 rounds into the season I've found that it's great for anything beyond 25' or so. I figure the make % of these putts are so low that there's not much point in extrapolating the Aimpoint chart (that stops at 20') so now I'm starting to use express for lag putts and midpoint for anything that I think is make-able.

That's a great approach.
post #285 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post

Having learned both express and midpoint, I honestly didn't think I'd use express much, but 2 rounds into the season I've found that it's great for anything beyond 25' or so. I figure the make % of these putts are so low that there's not much point in extrapolating the Aimpoint chart (that stops at 20') so now I'm starting to use express for lag putts and midpoint for anything that I think is make-able.

EJ, I am just curious. If you were going to play in a tournament, do you think you would use both versions? I have been considering also learning express.
post #286 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post


Having learned both express and midpoint, I honestly didn't think I'd use express much, but 2 rounds into the season I've found that it's great for anything beyond 25' or so. I figure the make % of these putts are so low that there's not much point in extrapolating the Aimpoint chart (that stops at 20') so now I'm starting to use express for lag putts and midpoint for anything that I think is make-able.

 

Yep, that is how I am using it as well. I find it difficult to say, "Ok its 60 inches outside the right." and trying to figure out were the hell 60 inches is at when lining up long distance. I know that is a skill I need to learn better for short distance as well, but this is were express has its advantage at long distance. 

post #287 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

That's a great approach.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher View Post

EJ, I am just curious. If you were going to play in a tournament, do you think you would use both versions? I have been considering also learning express.

I'm annoyed that I wrote it off when I saw the video (that has since been removed) and so I didn't commit the procedure to memory, and now it's too late.  So, it's all midpoint for me.

post #288 of 408
You can't really learn it from a video. But you knew that.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Instruction and Playing Tips
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Practice Range › Instruction and Playing Tips › AimPoint Green Reading