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Do irons lose some distance as they get older? - Page 2

post #19 of 50

Your irons are way nicer than mine, and mine aren't forged, but I've been playing the same crap set of Rams for 8+ years.  I only get to play maybe 3x a month on average, but I hit the range a lot, and I haven't lost any distance on my clubs.  I'd agree you need to try your current irons side by side on the same launch monitor with any new clubs to see how well the monitor is tuned.
 

@Zeph, are you sure about that?  I see your point about V vs. square grooves only making a difference out of the rough, but the pros are only using very unworn irons.  It seems physically possible to me that a really worn set of grooves could be rounded out enough to have less friction with the ball and create slightly less spin?  Of course, I haven't found that to be a problem with my irons, but I've learned so much over the last 3-4 years that my distance has been steadily increasing, so it still seems possible that I've lost a couple yards from decreased friction on the club face but the swing changes I've made have led to enough increased swing speed to easily outweigh the couple yards I might have lost.

post #20 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shindig View Post

Well, 6-P are set to have the same lofts, so unless yours got really weak, that's not the issue.

Were you hitting your 6I side by side? Alternately, was this at a range where you have hit your 6I in the recent past? It's not unheard of for a launch monitor to be juiced a bit. I was demoing some Nike Pro Cavities at a GolfSmith a month or so ago and sending their 6I 25 yards past mine, according to the launch monitor (without hitting mine next to it). I suspect it was inaccurate.


I agree.  Before buying my Mizuno MP-68, I tried them at Golf Smith.  The launch monitor said I was fading my shots but hitting them 210 with 6-iron.  I know that can't be true as I typically hit 6-I about 180 and I hit all my irons and woods with a slight draw.

 

After I purchased my MP-68's, I took it out to test them on the field (not the driving range) but the actual playing.  Sure enough, I was hitting 6-I about 180 (as I had suspected) and with a slight draw.

 

The take home lesson: Don't trust the launch monitor.  You need to take it out and actually hit it on the range or better yet "test drive' it on the course.

 

post #21 of 50


FWIW, the tire analogy is not correct.  The purpose of tire tread is to channel water away from the contact patch (where the rubber meets the road surface) to improve the tire's grip (search howstuffworks.com).

 

Carry on...
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph View Post

 



No way José. The job of the grooves is to clear away water, grass and debris. If you hit a clean ball from a fairway, the clubface could've had no grooves and the ball would spin nearly exactly the same amount. Spin is created from the difference in angle of the club at impact and the angle it hits the ball.

 

You can compare grooves to the thread on a tire. It is not giving more grip, it's there to funnel away water, snow and stuff. This is why the new V grooves don't spin more off a clean lie. They only make a difference when you get something between the clubface and the ball, most commonly grass. The grooves are not able to clear away as much grass, which leaves more grass between the clubface and the ball at impact. Water or grass on the clubface can cause less spin since you don't get the same contact with the clubface and ball. That's why people say you should keep the face of a wedge clean before hitting a shot, especially one where you want some amount of spin.



 

post #22 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by NI4NI View Post


FWIW, the tire analogy is not correct.  The purpose of tire tread is to channel water away from the contact patch (where the rubber meets the road surface) to improve the tire's grip (search howstuffworks.com).

 

Carry on...
 



 

How Is what Zeph say not correct?
He says the tyre thread channels water etc. away so that the rubber part can grip. How is that different from what you pasted from that website?

The thread itself doesn't grip the road but without the threads on a rainy day you'd simply do aquaplanning, i.e. "much reduced spin"/"flyer", back in golf terms.
post #23 of 50

No, that is not what he stated. His quote is:

 

You can compare grooves to the thread on a tire. It is not giving more grip, it's there to funnel away water, snow and stuff. This is why the new V grooves don't spin more off a clean lie. They only make a difference when you get something between the clubface and the ball, most commonly grass. The grooves are not able to clear away as much grass, which leaves more grass between the clubface and the ball at impact.

 

The purpose of tire thread is to provide more grip (meaning, it does give more grip).   The analogy of tire tread to club groove is a good one; it was just not worded correctly.  That is all.

post #24 of 50

On a dry clean track, would you use slick (i.e. no threads) tyres or ones with thread? Slick tyres provide better grip in dry/clean conditions. On the other hand, when on snow or water covered tracks, you'd take the ones with threads. The threads do not provide more grip PER SE, they limit the loss of grip in adverse conditions.

 

The purpose of a thread on a tyre is not to provide "more" grip but to limit the loss of grip when there is something between the tyre and the road, by channeling the adverse element away from the part of the tyre that is in contact with the road.

Same for the grooves on a golf club: their function is to limit the loss of spin when there is something between the ball and the clubface by channeling water, grass away from the part of the club face that will come in contact with the ball.

post #25 of 50

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kurisu View Post

On a dry clean track, would you use slick (i.e. no threads) tyres or ones with thread? Slick tyres provide better grip in dry/clean conditions. On the other hand, when on snow or water covered tracks, you'd take the ones with threads. The threads do not provide more grip PER SE, they limit the loss of grip in adverse conditions.

 

The purpose of a thread on a tyre is not to provide "more" grip but to limit the loss of grip when there is something between the tyre and the road, by channeling the adverse element away from the part of the tyre that is in contact with the road.

Same for the grooves on a golf club: their function is to limit the loss of spin when there is something between the ball and the clubface by channeling water, grass away from the part of the club face that will come in contact with the ball.


Sounds like you  know this better than me. a3_biggrin.gif

Seems like we agree on the function of the grooves though, and that they don't play a big difference when it comes to spin.

post #26 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurisu View Post

On a dry clean track, would you use slick (i.e. no threads) tyres or ones with thread? Slick tyres provide better grip in dry/clean conditions. On the other hand, when on snow or water covered tracks, you'd take the ones with threads. The threads do not provide more grip PER SE, they limit the loss of grip in adverse conditions.

 

The purpose of a thread on a tyre is not to provide "more" grip but to limit the loss of grip when there is something between the tyre and the road, by channeling the adverse element away from the part of the tyre that is in contact with the road.

Same for the grooves on a golf club: their function is to limit the loss of spin when there is something between the ball and the clubface by channeling water, grass away from the part of the club face that will come in contact with the ball.

 

Ok, now we're definitely off the road with respect to the OP's thread intent, but that's life...

 

The only part of the car touching the ground is its tires.  The sole purpose of the tire is to keep in contact with the road (called "grip").

 

Different tire tread patterns, as well as different tire compounds, facilitate the tire's ability to grip the road (slicks for dry racing, softer compunds with sipe patterns for winter and some rain models, harder compounds with different tread channel patterns for all season radials).  Tire treads only facilitate grip based on design and material (not less or more - just use the right ones for the intended application). 

 

The analogy has already been made as it relates to iron grooves...

 

post #27 of 50

Everyone in the tire discussion seems to agree with Zeph, it's just details as to whether you're improving grip or not---I like his original statement.  Many people assume the treads are *providing* grip, when it's really the friction of the pavement against the rubber.

 

The same is true for the club face, except the hard metal face is more like the pavement and the soft (on impact time/force scales) rubber ball is like the tire---it's as if you were driving racing slicks on treaded/grooved pavement.  Still, though, the grip comes from surface contact primarily, not from "bite" on the groove edges.

post #28 of 50

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NI4NI View Post

No, that is not what he stated. His quote is:

 

You can compare grooves to the thread on a tire. It is not giving more grip, it's there to funnel away water, snow and stuff. This is why the new V grooves don't spin more off a clean lie. They only make a difference when you get something between the clubface and the ball, most commonly grass. The grooves are not able to clear away as much grass, which leaves more grass between the clubface and the ball at impact.

 

The purpose of tire thread is to provide more grip (meaning, it does give more grip).   The analogy of tire tread to club groove is a good one; it was just not worded correctly.  That is all.



The thread can't provide grip, since there is no rubber there. I'm talking about the cavity in the tires here, the sole purpose of that cavity. I know that the threads are there to provide better grip for the tire, but that's not because the threads are there, that's because they funnel away water. Which is why slick formula 1 cars don't have threads. The more rubber you got against the asphalt, the better grip.

 

Slick tires will give better grip than threaded ones on a dry surface, but not on a wet surface. I may have worded it a bit weird, but I don't think my statement is wrong. The threads themselves don't give better grip, just like grooves don't create more spin. The threads and grooves are put to use when you get water or something else between the two surfaces. Which means that the surface of the clubface, and perhaps more importantly the surface of the ball, are the two major factors to the amount of spin. 

 

By that analogy, one would imagine a golf ball would get more spin from a flat clubface since there is a larger area that is in contact with the ball. Then again, tires and golf clubs act a bit different, so I'm not too sure about that one. What is certain though is that on a clean shot, grooves have little influence. Which is why the new V-grooves didn't make a difference to the spin from the fairway, but will create less spin when you get grass between the clubface and the ball.

post #29 of 50
I KNOW THIS IS AN OLDER THREAD BUT FELT COMPELLED TO CHIME IN. IRONS THAT ARENT MADE OF ROLLED STEEL SUCH AS A NEWERE FORGED BLADE WILL LOSE DISTANCE OR POP OVER TIME DUE TO THE LITTLE MICROSCOPIC CRACKS AN FIZZURES DEVELOPED IN THE NORMAL 431 STAINLESS STEEL AFTER MANY COMPRESSED HITS IN THE FACE BUT IT WOULD BE NOTICEABLE IN CAVITY BACKS AFTER LIKE TEN YEARS OF CONSTANT PLAY. MY BUDDY IS AN ENGINEER EXPLAINED IT TO ME BUT HES ALSO AN AVID GOLFER. I NOTICED IT IN MY OLD G5 IRONS WHICH IS WHY I BOUGT A NEW SET OF ADAMS IRONS ON EBAY FOR ABOUT THE SAME PRICE IT WOULD HAVE COSTED M TO!REESHAFT GRIP AND SHARPEN TE GROOBES OF MY OLD WRENCHES. SO WHEN SOMEON TELLS YOU THAT THEIR STICKS LOST THEIR POP THERE REALLY IS SOME MERIT TO THAT.
post #30 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micah View Post

I KNOW THIS IS AN OLDER THREAD BUT FELT COMPELLED TO CHIME IN. IRONS THAT ARENT MADE OF ROLLED STEEL SUCH AS A NEWERE FORGED BLADE WILL LOSE DISTANCE OR POP OVER TIME DUE TO THE LITTLE MICROSCOPIC CRACKS AN FIZZURES DEVELOPED IN THE NORMAL 431 STAINLESS STEEL AFTER MANY COMPRESSED HITS IN THE FACE BUT IT WOULD BE NOTICEABLE IN CAVITY BACKS AFTER LIKE TEN YEARS OF CONSTANT PLAY. MY BUDDY IS AN ENGINEER EXPLAINED IT TO ME BUT HES ALSO AN AVID GOLFER. I NOTICED IT IN MY OLD G5 IRONS WHICH IS WHY I BOUGT A NEW SET OF ADAMS IRONS ON EBAY FOR ABOUT THE SAME PRICE IT WOULD HAVE COSTED M TO!REESHAFT GRIP AND SHARPEN TE GROOBES OF MY OLD WRENCHES. SO WHEN SOMEON TELLS YOU THAT THEIR STICKS LOST THEIR POP THERE REALLY IS SOME MERIT TO THAT.

Why are you screaming? WRITING IN ALL CAPS really comes off as being loud and angry. Didn't read more than the first sentence.

post #31 of 50
IM NOT BUT HAVENT SET THE SETTINGS AUTOMATIC GRAMMAR YET ON THIS NEW TABLET LOL SORRY. TO LAZY TO KEEP PRESSING BUTTONS.
post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micah View Post

IM NOT BUT HAVENT SET THE SETTINGS AUTOMATIC GRAMMAR YET ON THIS NEW TABLET LOL SORRY. TO LAZY TO KEEP PRESSING BUTTONS.

 

For what it's worth.....  It seems like a little thing, but improper spelling, punctuation, grammar, and style can affect the value with which your posts are perceived.

 

Heck, there's even an ongoing thread devoted to the worst examples of each.

post #33 of 50
AND YOU READ THE ENTIRE POST OR YOU WOULDNT HAVE SAID THAT. LMBO DAMN YOU DUMB
post #34 of 50
JUST JOKING ABOUT THE DUMB PART ILL UPGRADE IT RIGT NOW BRO LOL
post #35 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran123 View Post

Again, size has hardly anything to do with distance.

 

I weigh 147, never to go the gym and out drive a lot of bigger guys. It's how you swing the club.

This.

post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanktwo2 View Post

I'm currently playing a set of Titleist 704 cb's.  I picked em up used for 150$ and hit them pretty solidly.  I believe the clubs are from 2005

 

I was hitting my 6 iron 160-165 yards, and they have S300 shafts.  My swing speed is between 105-110.

 

I was curious as to whether or not the problem was me, or my irons.  Went to the golf store, tried a set of Mizuno MP-58 and was making nice smooth swings getting them out 180 VERY consistently

 

 

I'm very close to dropping my 704's for something else

 

 

I still play my 690.cb's.  Hit them just as far as the day i got them.  I think it was back around 2005ish.  They have rifle shafts in them.

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