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Do You Support the PGA's "Tee It Forward" Effort? - Page 12

Poll Results: Will you support the "Tee It Forward" effort being made by the PGA and USGA?

 
  • 71% (81)
    Yes
  • 18% (21)
    No
  • 9% (11)
    Maybe
113 Total Votes  
post #199 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post


Thing is high handicap golfers, even those that occasionally hit it far, lack consistency. Their mishits are just as often short as left to right. Playing up isn't going to magically make them start playing precision golf tee to green. I see people chunking wedges from 50 yards all the time. You can put a poor golfer right next to the green and they will hit bad shots, it is what it is. The argument people can play bad golf and still play fast is full of holes. It's not the time spent making more strokes it's the time spent chasing balls around the course that makes high handicap golfers slower.

 



That makes it sound like the high handicapper has no choice but to be slow. I disagree. I'm a 17 HC now and I can play in under 3 hrs easily when I'm by myself, but when I first started playing and was much worse, Ibought the cheapest balls I could find and when I hit one into the woods or somewhere that i couldn't immediately find it, I just dropped one and played on. It may get a little costly that way but i figured between me and the people behind me, who SHOULD pay for MY poor play?
post #200 of 258

There are a number of relative terms being used in this thread, one of them being "high handicapper".  I am around an 18, and on this forum I am a high handicapper, but I do not play slow golf.  I would not make assumptions about the tees to play based upon handicap, but on a golfer's ability to reach every (or at least most) greens in regulation.  If I look at a scorecard, I usually do not want to play from tees much over 6300 yards.  More importantly, if there are 470 yard par 4's and 570 yard par 5's from a certain tee box, I know that I cannot hit them in regulation.  By moving up a tee box (or 2) I give myself a fighting chance and will take less strokes, therefore helping my speed of play (an enjoyment).

 

The point I am trying to make is that a low handicap golfer does not necessarilly belong on the tips.

post #201 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb72 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 


Thing is high handicap golfers, even those that occasionally hit it far, lack consistency. Their mishits are just as often short as left to right. Playing up isn't going to magically make them start playing precision golf tee to green. I see people chunking wedges from 50 yards all the time. You can put a poor golfer right next to the green and they will hit bad shots, it is what it is. The argument people can play bad golf and still play fast is full of holes. It's not the time spent making more strokes it's the time spent chasing balls around the course that makes high handicap golfers slower.

 



That makes it sound like the high handicapper has no choice but to be slow. I disagree. I'm a 17 HC now and I can play in under 3 hrs easily when I'm by myself, but when I first started playing and was much worse, Ibought the cheapest balls I could find and when I hit one into the woods or somewhere that i couldn't immediately find it, I just dropped one and played on. It may get a little costly that way but i figured between me and the people behind me, who SHOULD pay for MY poor play?

People like you are the exception. But it's not really a cost issue that I see. People look for lost balls because they don't want the penalty strokes that come with lost balls, it's an attempt at score preservation. This is why it's frustrating watch people struggle from tees longer than they have skill to play. Move up and you score better seems simple enough. TIF is about scoring better, being faster is just a side effect because even if you make mistakes you make them closer to the green. Being further away from the green just raises the potential for a more severe mishit because you have a longer club in your hand.

post #202 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

People like you are the exception. But it's not really a cost issue that I see. People look for lost balls because they don't want the penalty strokes that come with lost balls, it's an attempt at score preservation. This is why it's frustrating watch people struggle from tees longer than they have skill to play. Move up and you score better seems simple enough. TIF is about scoring better, being faster is just a side effect because even if you make mistakes you make them closer to the green. Being further away from the green just raises the potential for a more severe mishit because you have a longer club in your hand.

 

Plus, hitting over trees with anything longer than an 8i can be somewhat of a pain.

post #203 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

Plus, hitting over trees with anything longer than an 8i can be somewhat of a pain.


Lol yeah. But even if you couldn't hit over a tree and had to pitch out you'd still want to be closer.

 

Last night I played 6 holes 1-3 twice, didn't score the same on any hole. On 2, a 446 yard par 4, the first time I hit a decent drive and was 168 out. The second time I hit a poor drive, low hook that landed in rough and didn't roll and was 223 out. I made par the first time and double the second. Two putts both times.

 

When I started tracking stats two years ago my handicap was around 20. I assure you my stats were worse and my driving average significantly lower not because I couldn't hit it far but because mishits prevented it more often than not. I've managed to get a little longer with improvement but not much. Back then I would not have been able to comfortably play the tees I do now. It would have been a massacre. The trouble I see with golfers playing tees too long relative to their skill is they face scenario two more often than scenario one. At our course half of the par 4's are similar distance to #2.

post #204 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

Of course it is.  The point is that you can play at a better pace by keeping the ball in play.  And it really is more fun.  Why is it boring to score better?  To keep the ball in play and play under control?  Nobody is saying that anyone has to move forward and stay there the rest of their lives, only that it's going to be more fun for everyone around you if you dial it back until you get the long sticks under some semblance of control.  What's fun about hitting 270 yards, but 40 yards off the fairway?  Saying that it's more fun to shoot higher scores is nothing more than ignoring reason and surrendering to your ego.

In doing research about the TIF program onlline, I couldn't find one statement that mentioned how accurate a golfer was (maybe it's out there somewhere, but I didn't see it). The main theme I read was that the golfer should be playing the same relative distance as a tour pro plays. So, I'm wondering if the creaters of the TIF program really would suggest that your 270 hitter play from even shorter distances than they posted, just because that player stuggles with finding fairways? Or is he at the right set of tees and simply needs to get better...
post #205 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post

In doing research about the TIF program onlline, I couldn't find one statement that mentioned how accurate a golfer was (maybe it's out there somewhere, but I didn't see it). The main theme I read was that the golfer should be playing the same relative distance as a tour pro plays. So, I'm wondering if the creaters of the TIF program really would suggest that your 270 hitter play from even shorter distances than they posted, just because that player stuggles with finding fairways? Or is he at the right set of tees and simply needs to get better...


Not many amateur golfers average 270. Mishits can be short just as easily as left or right, with inaccuracy comes erratic distance. Score and handicap are indicative of the overall quality of the golf being played. The higher the score the more mistakes made. Being closer to the green may not minimize mistakes but it should make them less severe. You have a better chance of recovery and less chance to make another mistake with a shorter club. Even if you do the severity of a mishit with a 9 iron will be less than that of a 4 iron. Chunk a 9 the ball usually still lands somewhere near the green. Chunk a 4 and you may be hitting another full swing shot and still may face a chip/pitch if you don't hit the green.

post #206 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post


Not many amateur golfers average 270. Mishits can be short just as easily as left or right, with inaccuracy comes erratic distance. Score and handicap are indicative of the overall quality of the golf being played. The higher the score the more mistakes made. Being closer to the green may not minimize mistakes but it should make them less severe. You have a better chance of recovery and less chance to make another mistake with a shorter club. Even if you do the severity of a mishit with a 9 iron will be less than that of a 4 iron. Chunk a 9 the ball usually still lands somewhere near the green. Chunk a 4 and you may be hitting another full swing shot and still may face a chip/pitch if you don't hit the green.

I agree with what you said, Dave, but I was just genuinely curious whether accuracy really should be considered in terms of what set of tees to play... Someone suggested in a thread (not sure if it was this one), that the correct set of tees for you is the one that haves you averaging an 8 iron into the green on par 3's and 4's (some holes may be a 3 hyb, some may be a SW, but the average is about an 8 iron). I thought that made a lot of sense. For someone that is extremely erratic and a higher handicap, however, would we change that rule of thumb and say they should play at a length that has them averaging a PW into the greens?

I don't think so, but maybe others do...
post #207 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

I've never seen a senior play from the wrong tees before.

 

@ghalfaire, yes, "never". ;-)


Hmmm. I don't know exactly how you meant that but now that I'm thinking about it I haven't either. I've seen some that were playing from farther back than their age would suggest but they were long enough to handle it.

 

The ones that aren't long enough always move up.

 

It seems some common sense and/or a drop in testosterone comes with age. 

 

The main group I see that needs to move up are the 20 somethings that hit about 1 out of 5 decently and long but hit the other 4 all over the place and they come completely out of their shoes with every swing.

 

If they would calm down just a little, tiny, bit and move up a tee all of us (including them) would be better off.

post #208 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 


Hmmm. I don't know exactly how you meant that but now that I'm thinking about it I haven't either. I've seen some that were playing from farther back than their age would suggest but they were long enough to handle it.

 

The ones that aren't long enough always move up.

 

It seems some common sense and/or a drop in testosterone comes with age. 

 

Yes, this is the gist of what I meant.

I should really avoid those "one-liners". :doh: 

post #209 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post


I agree with what you said, Dave, but I was just genuinely curious whether accuracy really should be considered in terms of what set of tees to play... Someone suggested in a thread (not sure if it was this one), that the correct set of tees for you is the one that haves you averaging an 8 iron into the green on par 3's and 4's (some holes may be a 3 hyb, some may be a SW, but the average is about an 8 iron). I thought that made a lot of sense. For someone that is extremely erratic and a higher handicap, however, would we change that rule of thumb and say they should play at a length that has them averaging a PW into the greens?

I don't think so, but maybe others do...


I have no idea what a golfer shooting 20 over or whatever averages for approach shots but my guess is they don't often average to 8 iron distance. If they did their scores wouldn't be so high and their GIR so low. The push back in these threads is always it's just a couple of bad holes and silly 3 putts that run up the bogey golfer type scores so it makes no sense to move up because it's going to happen anyway, 40 yards into the woods is 40 yards into the woods regardless how close to the hole you are. The realization should be the scores that will improve are the holes you don't blow up not the odd catastrophe. Being closer to the hole means better opportunities.

post #210 of 258

I certainly don't consider myself a genius when it comes to golf, but I was smart enough when I was first getting addicted to the game to realize that I sucked with my driver (then it was a laminated maple driver that came with my set of Golden Ram clubs).  I didn't find any consistency with my driver until I bought my first TaylorMade 8.5° Burner in the late 80's.  As a result I played a lot of golf using my 3W off the tee, also made of wood.  I don 't see any sense in beating ones head against the wall.  Learn on the range, play golf on the course, and leave your ego in the parking lot.  

 

Anyone who thinks it's more fun to hit a 290 yard drive into the woods rather than a 230 yard 3W into the fairway doesn't really understand the point of the game.  Of course, if internet golf forums are any indication, the golfers who do hit those stray drives never take the proper penalty for their mistake, so they don't really know just how badly they are playing.  :doh:

post #211 of 258
So with this thread in mind I played front side 3000ish yards tonight at the home course to see the difference. Course wide open, we had storms again, damn rain every day here. Anyway heavy wind, two club up wind and I still shot 37. Was -1 until 7 and I missed a 3 footer downhill. It wasn' t a personal best side or anything, I shot 36 there two tees back. But that day I had luck, a chip in birdie that would have ran 15 feet past, lucky bounces to go eagle birdie x2 through 3 holes. Today it was fish in a bucket. I only hit driver twice. 350 yard par 4's, love it. I got there at 525 was done at 615 and because I played well left feeling good. I will be there again soon. Too much fun not to.
post #212 of 258

just getting back into the game myself after a few years layoff.  although i played previously, i was more of the weekend warrior type who played maybe 15-20 times a year and rarely put in time at the driving range.  this time I'm taking it more serious and putting in the needed practice.  before I always played the white tees (Blue,White, Yellow, Red setup).  Now that I'm just getting back into the game and hearing about the TIF move I planned to do just that.  After playing a couple of rounds I decided to take a different approach.  When I go to a course I don't decide to play a particular color (White or yellow), but decide at each hole.  Some holes I'm fully capable of playing the whites while other times yellow is much more suitable for my current skill level.  Is there anything particularly wrong with this method? 

post #213 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post

People like you are the exception. But it's not really a cost issue that I see. People look for lost balls because they don't want the penalty strokes that come with lost balls, it's an attempt at score preservation. This is why it's frustrating watch people struggle from tees longer than they have skill to play. Move up and you score better seems simple enough. TIF is about scoring better, being faster is just a side effect because even if you make mistakes you make them closer to the green. Being further away from the green just raises the potential for a more severe mishit because you have a longer club in your hand.

 



Oh, I agree with everything you've said. My only point was that regardless of the reason your spending so much time looking for your ball it is a choice. Coincidentilly, and more on topic, a freind from work and I were paired up with a couple yesterday afternoon on a local 9 hole course. I could tell immediately by their swings that neither one of them was very good, but that's okay with me, neither are the guys I play with at work and I'm no pro myself (17HC). I didn't notice it at first because the ladies tees on the first hole were on the same tee box as the mens tees but my freind commented that the woman (a twenty something with an athletic build) hit from the menst tees. I hit a low weak slice that landed in the fairway but probably didn't go 180 yds. She did not out drive me but was just in the first cut. On the second I hit another low slicing shot about the same distance. She pulled her drive to the left rough and out drove me by about 20 yds. I made a comment something to the effect 'oh that's why you're hitting from the men's tees'. She smiled and the guy she was with said, "yeah, she out drives me all the time". From that point on until 9 she didn't hit another decent drive. In fact, she duffed more than she hit solid with all of her clubs. On 9, however, bad swing mechanics and all, she hit a drive that was as good as any I had ever hit on that hole. It plays up hill and always into the wind and she hit a perfect little draw right in the middle of the fairway 240-250 yds. She proceded to duff the next two shots to advance the ball a total of 50 yds. My point is 250 yard drive or not, she should have been playing from the ladies tees. She probably averaged three duffed shots per hole and if she tees it forward that would take anywhere from one to two of these duffs out of the process (meaning she shoots 55-60 instead of the 70 to 75 she probably ended up with).
post #214 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post



I agree with what you said, Dave, but I was just genuinely curious whether accuracy really should be considered in terms of what set of tees to play... Someone suggested in a thread (not sure if it was this one), that the correct set of tees for you is the one that haves you averaging an 8 iron into the green on par 3's and 4's (some holes may be a 3 hyb, some may be a SW, but the average is about an 8 iron). I thought that made a lot of sense. For someone that is extremely erratic and a higher handicap, however, would we change that rule of thumb and say they should play at a length that has them averaging a PW into the greens?



I don't think so, but maybe others do...

 



If you hit your first drive right down the middle 260 yds.and have a 8 iron to the hole, and you slice you second into the trees and have a 4 iron in after you bump out and duff your third drive so that you can't reach with anything less that a 3w, you DID NOT average an 8 iron in.
post #215 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post

So with this thread in mind I played front side 3000ish yards tonight at the home course to see the difference. Course wide open, we had storms again, damn rain every day here. Anyway heavy wind, two club up wind and I still shot 37. Was -1 until 7 and I missed a 3 footer downhill. It wasn' t a personal best side or anything, I shot 36 there two tees back. But that day I had luck, a chip in birdie that would have ran 15 feet past, lucky bounces to go eagle birdie x2 through 3 holes. Today it was fish in a bucket. I only hit driver twice. 350 yard par 4's, love it. I got there at 525 was done at 615 and because I played well left feeling good. I will be there again soon. Too much fun not to.


Just posted score, stats from moving up 46% GIR-71% FIR-14 putts-50% bounce backs-60% scrambling-par 3's 3.0 par 4's 4.2 par 5's 5.0. Three of the greens I missed were fringe, I got a putter on it twice. Average drive was 234, driver twice,  four 5w and one 5i, longest was 301 shortest 191. Honestly I may just stay on these tees for a while, at least will move up to blues. Par 3's were kind of weird up there at 143 and 114. Both par 5's could have been two to the green but I played conservatively. Fun as it was I was a little disappointed I didn't keep it to 35. Anyone else going to move up for grins?

post #216 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 


Just posted score, stats from moving up 46% GIR-71% FIR-14 putts-50% bounce backs-60% scrambling-par 3's 3.0 par 4's 4.2 par 5's 5.0. Three of the greens I missed were fringe, I got a putter on it twice. Average drive was 234, driver twice,  four 5w and one 5i, longest was 301 shortest 191. Honestly I may just stay on these tees for a while, at least will move up to blues. Par 3's were kind of weird up there at 143 and 114. Both par 5's could have been two to the green but I played conservatively. Fun as it was I was a little disappointed I didn't keep it to 35. Anyone else going to move up for grins?

 

I just play shorter and easier courses. ;-)

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