Is golf obnoxious? - Page 3

 

Before there was a golf course on some piece of land, the land was not some "formless void" like in Genesis. There were already trees, grass, probably a creek or a pond or two, etc. Yeah, "man" came in and mowed some grass, put in 18 holes in the dirt, and charged people for the use - but what you see is pretty much "what was there on the land". And by the same token, national parks are far from undisturbed: Think paved paths and roads, concession stands, hotels, etc. So I still think that if you have a problem with golf courses, you should have a problem with national parks as well. (And smaller city parks for that matter - it's the same principle - cording off land for people's enjoyment... and while you may think it's free, as someone pointed out you're paying for it with your tax dollars.

 

 

And by presenting what you thought, and defending what someone else said, you *are* in fact making arguments. Very unsound arguments.

 

Ummm, ok. Nice chatting with you.

 

 

what a tool

 

 

since reading your trolling posts, (my post is that of opinion, and includes no facts, nor links to facts) i've come to the conclusion that you my friend are confused, both logically and mentally. is golf obnoxious...to some people yes (in your case) and others no. is golf a waste of land? i'd bet those who make a living by being a greenskeeper (who went to colleges, more than likely) would refute you. could the land be used for something else? here's my view: any and all land could be used for a greater purpose...the best part about america: you can give the middle finger to someone else who has a different view than you...if you own it, you can do what you want with it (within the laws and constitution).  as far as i'm concerned...we weren't concerned about the ability to get food on a day to day basis...there's PLENTY OF LAND in the united states that's still undeveloped...until we as the population can't find food anymore and all other lands have been harvested...why have this argument?


trackster, according to you, i'm obnoxious in the following ways:
1) i live in a house
2) i play golf
3) i've visted a place where i had to pay for amusement on someone elses land

4) i drive a sports car and not an economy, basic level vehicle


so trackster, with a smile on my face, i give you...the best part of america :)
 

 

We really don't need more food or more farms currently.

 

 

100 million pounds of produce is thrown away daily.

 

 

 

I grew up on a family agriculture business (ranch/farm).  So I'll tell you that today in America farming isn't a viable business unless you can inherit it.  If you have to take out a loan to begin the business you'll fail.  The return on investment for farming in the USA  won't pay the interest on the loan let alone the principal.  And that folks is why family farms are in decline in the USA and have been for decades.  You can make more money (probably work less too) getting a job in town.  Golf course are more productive in terms of generating income and jobs than are farms so are a better use of the land.  Like most things we import a lot of our food from places with lower standards of living (read low wages), less regulations, and less concern with the environment. Welcome to the 21st Century.

 Land is not the reason we don't have more orphanages, hospitals, homeless shelters or just about anything.  Money (and the fact that people don't want homeless shelters. Read about the protests from neighbors every time someone wants to build one) is. Getting rid of a golf course is not going to magically create money for anything else.

 

 

This is a stupid discussion. Tell me, who gets to decide what is arbitrarily better for society? Obviously sports facilities of anykind could be demolished and turned into farmland or housing. Commercial districts? We could get rid of all of those if we all used the Internet or had the government supply us with goods. Schools? Online learning for all grades is a growing business... Roads? There are much more efficient ways to build roads in the city...

Wouldn't it be great to live in a society like that?

Fact is there is alot of land in America and we needed the land for farming the price of food would go up and that use of land would start to compete with the use of land for golf. If we needed more housing (lol that sounds so stupid consider the current housing market) then housing prices would start to compete with the use of land for golf.

On a side note I payed $8 to play Keeton Park golf course in Dallas yesterday. I don't know how they make money off that. Plus I see all sorts of people come and putt and chip for free there then leave so it's not like the course doesn't provide some free services...

Quote:

I'm not going to lie, I didn't read half the thread. With that said, a golf course really doesn't take up that much space in the grand scheme of things. I'm going strictly off my area (DC metro area) with my response. We have hospitals, parks, homeless shelters, and whatever else you mentioned should take it's place and we still have room for golf courses; so does every area in the US. It's not like we are hurting for space or bumping elbows with our neighbors when we walk out of the door. The country's foundation is built around capitalism. The idea of private ownership where someone can start damn near any business they want to staying inside of regulations.  My home course is built on an old farm actually. The cart barn is part of the old farm. There are 20 other farms within a 10 minute drive of the course so saying that a golf course takes away valuable space from farms or something else more publically usable is just simply not correct. With that said, my course also has a public park right across the street so there goes that. For the PETA people, golf courses even provide great spots for animals to live. Most golf courses incorporate housing developments into the design of the course these days so again, saying courses take away from land that can be used for homes is just flat wrong.

 

Hell, Disney takes up a ton of space and isn't necessary. Let's get rid of it. While we're at it, let's get rid of The Capitol Building in DC as well. The politicians certainly aren't doing anything in it....You can't get rid of unnecessary things, it's what America is built on.

 

Please don't get rid of Disney. I like the area and the golf courses ;)

 

Good point, and it reminds me of a situation currently going on in Pacifica, just south of San Francisco. Some environmentalists there want to close the Sharp Park golf course because they say its existence is endangering the California red legged frog and the San Francisco garter snake. It turns out that those are not indigenous to the area - they only arrived *after* the golf course was built, since it turned a salt water estuary into a fresh water habitat, and the frogs and snakes need fresh water. (See http://sharppark.savegolf.net/)

 

There are definitely a lot of people out there failing to think things through.

Golf is a fun diversion from real life. I see a lot of bird and animal species using the ponds and wetlands the course created when it was built. Early in the morning a lot of people use the cart paths to run or walk their dogs. A fair ammount of people are employed by golf courses. I'm glad I live in a country that has enough land to provide golf courses, parkland, and enough farmland to grow surplus ammounts of food. If the origional poster feels guilty about being a golfer, I suggest that he quit. As for me, I am going to enjoy the hell out of playing.

you've made the point that YOU are obnoxious. not the game that is golf.
 

 

We have absolutely no shortage of land in this country, and you're saying that we shouldn't build a golf course because the land could be used for something else? Just drive a mile in any direction and build it there, where they can't even see the golf course. The problem with building those things has absolutely nothing to do with space.

It's really simple: Someone bought the land and tries to make a profit from it while providing a service for what is often a reasonable fee. Who cares how much space it takes up? Who cares how much it costs to play? There's plenty of space available for all the other things we need. I don't get why you would even blink twice about the space that they use, because it's practically irrelevant. If golf courses disappeared overnight, I guarantee you that they wouldn't instantly be filled in with things that needed to be there but couldn't be. Instead, someone else would simply take the land and try to make money off it in a different way.

The idea of "I don't like how much they're using or how much money they're dealing with" is always silly because it's based on "it doesn't seem right". If they aren't harming anyone, let them be, it isn't about what "seems right". Any argument against them has to center around what harm they do.

Space-wise they're not harming anyone. Financially they're not harming anyone. We need real arguments. Things like water consumption are at least a step in the right direction, assuming that their unused water could go to good elsewhere.

It's a common practice to "chop up" quotes so they can be responded to one at a time. It's also a common practice to quote only those remarks one is responding to - not every person has the time or inclination to respond to every single sentence you've written.

 

Please show me one example where you were quoted out of context, or where the meaning of your words was changed.

 

It is very common here. It's also irritating and disrespectful. One might even say, it's obnoxious.

The taking up land argument just seems kind of silly to me.  There's all kinds of things that take up lots of land to provide some service that not everyone wants to take advantage of.  Maybe golf courses take up more than many things you could compare it to, but it just seems a weak argument.  We make plenty of food in this country (we're one of the largest food exporters I believe), and if there were other activities that could make more money, either by doing something more people are willing to pay for or charging more money for the same number of customers or whatever, then there would just be less golf courses.  

 

The environmental argument is much stronger.  I live in LA and get pissy at people with huge grass lawns since it seems such a waste of water when we have none to spare in SoCal, and I've seen tons of people with spectacularly beautiful yards where I'd love to have a BBQ or whatever that are done with native plants that require little or no watering.  But that's super hypocritical cause I love golf and play all the time and even with improvements in course management cutting down on water usage tons and tons of water is used to keep up all the golf courses in the desert southwest, and you could definitely argue that that's "obnoxious", or maybe rather irresponsible.  But what can I say, my love of golf forces me to accept hypocritical views!

You've accused me of this before Sean, and I still don't understand your objection.

 

(Unless you're joking again - sometimes I can't tell.)

 

I'll have to take your word for it, but since I abhor the practice, I've taken a few people to task for it.