Is there a bigger Tiger hater than Brandel Chamblee?

I dunno... I was somewhat taken aback by Brandel Chamblee's rantings both yesterday and today on the Golf Channel Post Round wrapup show.  Like many TW Bashers on the golf blogosphere, Brandel ranted about how Sean Foley is leading Tiger down the wrong swingpath (sic). and implied Tiger's human flaws will somehow never allow him to measure up to Jack even if Tiger equals or surpasses 19 majors.  Jack Nicklaus was one of my 1st childhood sports hero's, and he will always hold a special place in my memories and golfing life.  That being said, I would be thrilled to see Tiger regain his magical ability to hit amazing golf shots in the heat of major competition, and break Jack's record.  Tiger showed brief glimmers that the timing and magic are returning, but unfortunately, interspersed with stretches of some truly bad shots that show he's human after all.  Tiger said in his post round press conference that he believes Sean and he are on the right path, as he's seeing increased ball velocity and distance on his shots, but less sidespin and lateral movement on his shaped shots, and these 2 factors are contributing to the less than stellar results we've seen so far.  But hey, he's been off for 3 months, after briefly leading the Masters in the final round before his putter went cold, and his leg/knee got injured.  I totally agree with you.... we and the Media should cut Tiger some slack, and let's see how he does in the Australian Open and President's Cup, or perhaps more realistically, next April at the Masters before Tiger's game is declared DOA.  Tiger's only 35 years old, and if he can maintain his health and regain even 90% of his former abilities, lookout recordbooks!!  Jack didn't win his 15th major until the age of 38, so Tiger's aurguably still got time to realistically chase the all time record. Here's what I think of Brandel's contention that Tiger's wrong to believe that a swing change is a "process" and that results on the range can be deceiving.... Tiger = 2 major swing changes (3rd in process) = 14 majors and 79 tour wins. Brandel Chamblee = 1 PGA Tour win + 1 Nationwide Tour Win + best T18 at 1999 Masters = Golf Channel Ranting Broadcaster 

I have to admit, I too was a little surprised by his comments.  The one that really got me was (paraphrasing), "...go back to Hank (or), go back to Butch, (just) dump Foley because he's not the answer".  Guess he doesn't have too much faith in Foley's ability / teachings.

So if we don't praise the ground that Tiger walks on, it makes people a hater?  Not sure what is worse tho.. a hater or a fanbois..  In my opinion both are equally dangerous, because they are both biased blind..  I see nothing wrong with someone being critical and questioning ones skills or actions.. Shouldn't all news people or talks heads give you both ends of an argument?

Foley's a student and instructor of S&T principles which some people don't consider a swing approach that should be used by the pro's.  Foley's also made a few enemies himself with his own comments, so those two combined make him an easy target.  I don't understand S&T enough to condemn it or defend it, but what I do know is that Tigers swing with Harmon and Haney tore his left knee up to the point it is today so I don't see either of them as Tigers answer.  I'm pretty sure Harmon doesn't wany anything to do with Tiger now and Haney at one time might have been a great swing coach, but seeing his show on the golf channel has caused me to lose some respect for him. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomboys 

I have to admit, I too was a little surprised by his comments.  The one that really got me was (paraphrasing), "...go back to Hank (or), go back to Butch, (just) dump Foley because he's not the answer".  Guess he doesn't have too much faith in Foley's ability / teachings.

A bigger Tiger hater than Brandel Chamblee? I think several fellow Sand Trappers have outdone Chamblee in the past.

Chamblee knows something about a golf swing - he was among the top 100 money winners for six years running on the PGA tour. But, I'm not sure his analysis is worth that much more - or less - than any other announcer's.

And, I find the philosophical debate about whether Stack-N-Tilt deserves its own phylum in golf's swing kingdom to be tiresome. Quite a few teaching pros use Stack-N-Tilt, and it works quite well for some golfers - I sense SnT may work best for people with a certain learning style. We'll know for sure in a few years when kids raised on SnT start playing in college and on the pro tour, and whether they win or not.

A look at Chamblee's history shows he had a son die as a child, lost his PGA tour card in 2003, and cited credible family concerns for walking away from the tour. His Golf Channel gig, as he pointed out, requires him to be on the road 60 days a year, as opposed to 180 days as a tour pro. And, Tiger's family troubles and infidelity may be a psychological rub point for a family guy like BC.

Remember that the Golf Channel has problems of peaks and valleys in its programming quality, thus BC likely has a general tasking from his bosses to "be interesting." So, discussion of TW is a way to stir up controversy, so why not do it.

Links on Chamblee:

• Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandel_Chamblee
• BC's rather thoughtful "Farewell to PGA" column: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1001442/index.htm

He's not the only one who think's Foley is the wrong answer. Whether he's a fraud poser or just not the right fit for Tiger is debatable, but I do think Foley has a rather limited understanding of golf and the golf swing. Based on recent results from his stable of players, his method might be past its expiration date. It's not a knock against Tiger specifically to suggest any or all of them should consider moving on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomboys 

I have to admit, I too was a little surprised by his comments.  The one that really got me was (paraphrasing), "...go back to Hank (or), go back to Butch, (just) dump Foley because he's not the answer".  Guess he doesn't have too much faith in Foley's ability / teachings.

I just wonder what makes Chamblee think he is all that as an authority on the golf swing.  It can't be his relatively mediocre record as a player.  It can't be his coaching or his work as a swing instructor, since I've never heard of him working with touring pros. 

I like Frank Nobilo much better.  And he was a much better player, besides.

My take:

1. Tiger hasn't been able to practice and play enough (he says "reps") to groove his new swing, so the jury is out on whether this new swing will work for him.  He is injury free and can practice.  His family routine is slowly but surely being properly scheduled, around school holidays and the like.  Lets wait till the end of 2012 and review the situation.  This isn't to say whether SnT in itself is a good or bad swing method.  I believe TW can use most any method (wide with Butch, wipey with Hank and stack with Sean) and given the time to groove that method, he can win with it.  

2. I like both Brandle and Frank Nobilo as analysts.  I don't buy the idea that you have to be a good player to know the theories and mechanics of a swing.  The best coaches in the world in most any sports you care to name (football, baseball, soccer, etc), were never the best players.  Why should golf be different?  Was Butch No. 1 in the world? and how about Hank?  Even Stan Utley couldn't consistently stay on tour year after year.  No one is slamming those guys as swing gurus.  They not only "analyze / comment on" swings, they actually teach swings. 

Interesting question to raise.  There are multiple possible "answers" any one of which may be true.  Only Chamblee will really know.

But it's an important question now that Tiger is valiantly struggling to regain his former glory.  People like me have been called "Tiger haters" by some here on the forum.  I understand why that is, I don't think it's true in my case, I'm not proposing to reargue the toss here (the personal stuff re: floosies ....).  But there is a real danger IMO that on the contrary, some of those who were formerly, shall we say, big Tiger supporters/fans etc etc, some of these people may turn against him now out of disappointment, a sense of loss/failed expectations/betrayal even.  No idea if this applies to Chamblee but it will apply to many.

This is of course profoundly unfair to TW.  He doesn't deserve it, having gived to the game of golf what he has and not being responsible for how others perceive him.  One thing we do know is that he is trying his darndest to get back to where he was.  It can be difficult to watch at times.  He may or may not be doing it as we think he should, which is irrelevant to him and let's face it none of us can really begin to judge that accurately.  We don't know enough about what his real issues are, deep down. Let's not kid ourselves, we aint got the data.

Honest criticism of Tiger is still fair game, he's a professional golfer after all and is in the mix.  But IMO it's a time to err on the generous side.  Give the guy a frikkin break is what I'm saying.  Shoot, those blasted commentators who were overly effusive/gushing/fawning in the past, let's not have them compound the error now by being overly critical of the guy in whose shadow they should hardly walk.  How stupid would that be ........ [rhet.]  

I have to agree with the OP.  We spend too much time criticizing Tiger because he was so dominant for so long.  Kaymer and Graeme didn't make the cut, but there was no mention.  I do think it is a personal thing between some announcers and Tiger.  I would like to see the coverage spend more on the player doing well.

I didn't watch that much golf when Jack was fading, but I never recall him getting this kind of grief.  Tiger is looking to get a swing that doesn't strain his body like his old swing did.  He may never get it back, but he deserves to try what he thinks is best, not Chamblee or Faldo.

As for infidelity, that goes hand in hand with Pro athletes.  Tiger has had only one wife and one divorce.  Faldo, Normal, currently at 3.  Many, many players have been divorced at least once.  Tiger is certainly not the only one, just the most publicized.

At first I thought poorly of Tiger.  But now I feel sorry for him and hope he gets it back because of all the haters.

That's more or less the way I feel.  The whole "hater" vs. "non-hater" thing is a canard and pretty tiresome to boot.  It isn't that simple, never was.  TW has earned an honest and fair appraisal of his game, esp. by those who are supposedly paid to provide commentary about what is really happening out there on the course, on the day (along with appropriate background material of course).  But some people just can't ever get it right if you know what I mean.  It's like a c**p pilot trying to fly the glideslope on an instrument approach - they're always too high or too low, never on the crosshair ("in the donut") when it comes to TW.  The image I'm trying to get across is one of (repeated) overcompensation for previous errors that results in a truly miserable body of work, hopefully not also to a prang on or near the runway surface.

No, I don't think so. He may be a little jealous.

I actually made a thread on Chamblee like 6 months ago because i have always thought that he is a huge Tiger hater. There is no perfect swing in my opinion and he did fall 3 birdies short from winning the masters if i remember clearly. So his swing is fine just needs some practice. I remember i was watching a tournament that Chamblee was announcing and Tiger hit a poor drive and he started bashing him like he shouldn't be hitting bad shots. Well his second shot was behind a tree and still had a wood to the green and the green was surrounded by water Tiger hit a amazing shot and Chamblee didn't say a single word and i couldn't believe that he couldn't say wow what a amazing shot. I can't even hear him talk because he can't give the guy credit when credit is due but he is quick to talk negative. There is a big difference in giving your opinion like Frank Nobilo does and the way Chamblee does it. Frank gives his opinion ans Chamblee pretty much saids i can't stand the guy. I think Chamblee is a idiot and i can't stand hearing his voice.

I actually have to give Brandel a lot of credit. He has not wavered on his opinion since day one. I also agree with his assessment on Tiger going back to what worked in the past making him the most dominant player in the history of the game along with Jack. The fact that Brandel makes the comment that we are all thinking makes me really want to listen to what he has to say. His remarks may have been a little shocking to the golfing world, but IMO he was stating the obvious. It is akin to saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I can never remember a time when Tiger's swing was broke until now. 

What gives Brandel the right to criticize and be the expert? The same thing that gives us the right to do it, except that Brandel gets paid to do it. I hate to say it, but those of you that doubt his knowledge of the golf swing really don't appreciate what it takes to get to the PGA Tour and become a top 100 player. That fact alone puts him in rarefied air in the pyramid of golf (ie Paper Tiger). 

Another point about Brandel is that while I may not always agree with the guy, I know he does his homework. Heck, the guy reads the SandTrap and even posted a comment on this topic. More importantly, whether you want to believe it or not, he is a golf insider and has access to firsthand information. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmf9 

 

It certainly wasn't the greatest.  Correct me If im wrong but I think Tiger won at Firestone a few years being dead last in driving accuracy.  Ever since I started watching golf (about 5 years ago) I never remember Tiger being an accurate driver.  What set him apart was his irons and his short game.  Tiger is still a good iron player and you have to figure his short game will only get better with time.  Any golfer whos undergone swing changes knows it takes time, Martin Kaymer is getting a break now because he's undergoing swing changes, and he's certainly had more time to practice them than Tiger.

I don't know...let's see...97 Masters...lapping the field at the US Open...14 majors... 6 Us Ams...would you change that winning formula for a couple more fairways? As far as Kaymer goes, he isn't even on the same planet as Woods, in fact, there was more distance between Phil and Tiger (2 and 1 in rankings) than there was between Phil and # 100.  The guy was untouchable, why he felt he needed to overhaul (not tweak) is beyond me and apparently Brandel Chamblee as well. I seriously don't understand the thinking.