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Can we all finally agree that Tiger is done? - Page 9

post #145 of 184

I agree that Tiger is still in transition.

post #146 of 184

I think it's unreasonable to expect him to be as dominant as he was before.  Having said that, he's still pretty consistently competitive (3 W's, lots of top 5's, top 10's, top 25's) despite not having his best game.  I'd bet 99.5% of the golfers on the PGA would kill for his results, $$$ winnings and stats in 2012.  So he's right up there as far as non-majors are concerned. 

 

Wrt majors, his scoring game has deserted him (from 150 yds in, and putting) and that puts a lot of pressure on his long game.  Let's see if he can turn that around in the off season, and see how he plays in 2013, before we dismiss him out of hand as a spent force in majors.

post #147 of 184

I take this thread as a discussion about his performance in majors. Alot of you are holding up the 3 wins this year but so what?

 

Look at his performance in the majors. Something is screwed up in his head when the pressure of THOSE titles are on the line.

post #148 of 184

He is not done. He is arguably the best ever, I wont count him out until he really is done. With that said, I say his struggles are 80% mental and 20% skill. He more than any player on tour should not be over analyzing the golf swing. He needs to just learn to relax, stop thinking so much about that damn swing and just rip it. He was best that way. However, I do think if you could pinpoint one part of his game that is actually a problem, it would be his wedge game and in. Especially in the majors this season, his wedge game has not been good. Thinking about how true those greens were at Kiawah and how just about everyone was chipping it close, Tiger never seemed to do it. What happened to his hole outs from the apron that he always seems to do on the big stage? What happened to his consistent looks at birdie because that SW from 120 got him within 2 feet? Didnt seem to happen much this season in the majors. The British Open this year was definitely his best look at winning and i;ll give him a break seeing as it was just really one hole, one mistake that lead to an unraveling at the end. But Kiawah and Olympic were just embarrassing on the weekend. Really think he has got to get back to the short game player he once was. Remember, he was never much of an accurate driver before. He can get by without being a top driver. He cant get by with a weakened game from 150 in.

post #149 of 184

Im no Tiger fan,  But last time I checked he was in the top 10 in the world and has won more tour events than anyone up to date in 2012. He is still near the top in driving distance and swing speed, so physically he is fine. I would not be surprised if he plays for 10+ more years. And he will be on the olympic team in 2016, Bet your pants on it.  I don't think that is done.

 

For real, Just because he is not super dominate anymore does not me he is done. There will never be another "tiger like" domination. There are too many good athletes coming into golf and golf is now super mainstream. It just won't happen again unless a super human athlete comes in a consistently puts up rounds of 65 day after day after day. And on some tournaments that won't even win.

 

I will say again, I'm not even a Tiger fan, but facts are facts.  Tiger (like him or not) is still one of the best golfers alive, just has more resistance these days. 

post #150 of 184

not a chance!  3 wins.  Top 10 in most tournaments in past 2 years. Could have won 1 or more majors if putting better.   No sustained slump. went from +20 to 4th in world in less than 1 year.  in transition yes.  Psychologically conflicted yes.  Passionate about golf yes. Committed to get to number 1 yes.  wants to win yes.  Phyically fit and injury free yes.  Trust in coach yes!  better off with out Steve Williams yes (after bone headed move with Adam Scott).   Generally if find the constant assurances that Rory is the next thing and the attacks that Tiger is done both non objective and a double standard.  Rory will be the next greatest when he show that he can dominate not appear like he should. 

post #151 of 184

I am a big Tiger fan and I honestly have no idea what the future holds.  I think if he wins a major soonish, it will free up his mind, but until then there's clearly something holding him back mentally.  I also don't like his new found love for conservative play, especially on Sundays when you are 4+ shots back and you have drivable PAR 4s and reachable PAR 5s.  With his wedge play issues lately I cannot understand for the life of me why he keeps laying up on short holes and then proceed to airmail the greens with sand wedges.  I don't like his decisions and they show lack of confidence to me.  He is clearly not "done" as far as winning and I think he'll be #1 again very soon, but somehow watching him is not the same anymore.  He's playing defensive and with lack of confidence.  His putting is god awful no matter what the stats say.  Have you ever seen tiger take so much time reading greens and then leave that many putts short? He's always been streaky as far as putting but now he's just trying to force it.

post #152 of 184

I agree he's not done and I've noticed a difference in his demeanor.  I'm not sure if that's Foley's "Zen" influence or the impact Tiger's past transgressions have had on the man he is today.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoganwoods View Post

I am a big Tiger fan and I honestly have no idea what the future holds.  I think if he wins a major soonish, it will free up his mind, but until then there's clearly something holding him back mentally.  I also don't like his new found love for conservative play, especially on Sundays when you are 4+ shots back and you have drivable PAR 4s and reachable PAR 5s.  With his wedge play issues lately I cannot understand for the life of me why he keeps laying up on short holes and then proceed to airmail the greens with sand wedges.  I don't like his decisions and they show lack of confidence to me.  He is clearly not "done" as far as winning and I think he'll be #1 again very soon, but somehow watching him is not the same anymore.  He's playing defensive and with lack of confidence.  His putting is god awful no matter what the stats say.  Have you ever seen tiger take so much time reading greens and then leave that many putts short? He's always been streaky as far as putting but now he's just trying to force it.

post #153 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

I agree he's not done and I've noticed a difference in his demeanor.  I'm not sure if that's Foley's "Zen" influence or the impact Tiger's past transgressions have had on the man he is today.  


It has to be mostly mental but also the fact that I dont think he's 100% comfortable yet.  It shows that he doesn't especially like aiming left on most of his shots.  And what is with that huge push slice he's playing off the tee.  It's a good thing he has the stinger.  Anyways I'm not worried about his swing, he'll figure a way to hit his wedges and his driver is already not too bad, but he's got to go low sometimes.  You can't be defensive and put up 69s or 70s all 4 rounds and wait until you get hot with a putter to go lower.  Of course, he's Tiger and what do I know.  Lets see what happens.

 

On a side note, I'm driving to NY for the Sunday round of the Barclays next week and I hope to see some good stuff!  First PGA tour experience! :)

post #154 of 184

With golf or skanks?

post #155 of 184

This is by far the dumbest thread I've seen on here today. SERIOUSLY. Tiger is the best. Tiger is golf. Tiger is here to stay. Bottom line
 

post #156 of 184

I don't think he's "done". I think that just like how once he won an official PGA Tour event (post 09) the flood gates opened and he won 3 times in 2012 so far. I think that once he wins that next major, he will get 2-5 within the following 3-4 years. Even though he hasn't won a major since 09, he's put himself in contention a lot. I think it's more of a question of when, not if he will win another major.

post #157 of 184

Is Tiger done?  Don't be ridiculous.  He's won 3 times in only a handful of events, was in the mix going into the weekend in 3 majors, and is sitting at # 3 in the world.  Done?  I don't think so.

 

Is he the Tiger of old? No, and probably never will be.  Not because he won't play well, just that what he did for so many years is really beyond comprehension.  8 years in a row without missing a cut - find me one player this year who hasn't missed a single cut, and if so, do you think he can do it again for the next 7?  9 missed cuts in his career?  There are players who win regular tournaments and/or challenge in majors with that many in YEAR!

 

Consider he's accumulated more world ranking points this year than anyone except Rory, and that's with a major (and the extra points) going to Rory.  So he's only the second best in the world this year - so far.  There are dozens of golfers wishing they were "done" like Tiger!

 

Keep in mind, his focus over the last year was on his driving and long-irons, full swings with long clubs (the ones that most likely contributed to his health issues).  He had to fix those first so he could continue to play without injury.  Now he'll get an off-season where he can work on his short game again (wedges/distance control/putting).  If that improves even half as much as his long game did last off-season, it's gonna be a long year for anyone not named "Tiger" in 2013.

 

For all those believing Tiger is done, please contact me - I've got some beachfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell (got a bridge, too!).

post #158 of 184

Tigers ranked #3 in the world, and leads in some points and stat categories. That's not even close to being done.

post #159 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

They do?

 

A guy with the yips of his driver AND his putter does not win three times, finish in the top 25 in three of the four majors (let alone top 11 in two of them). That guy doesn't lead the FedEx race, the money list, get ranked third in the world, sit at 21st in GIR, 36th in Driving Accuracy, 39th in Putts Gained, T6 in proximity to the hole (occasionally laying back doesn't seem to hurt him so much does it?), and... first in scoring average.

 

And... he's pretty good with a driver these days. He's said so himself. His strategy at Lytham was to avoid the bunkers, not to avoid the driver. That hole he hit 2-irons on? The toughest hole on the course? He had birdied it using the same strategy the first three days. Driver was definitely not a requirement at Olympic. Even Jim Furyk hit 3Ws and hybrids off the tee there and he's not long at all. Nor is driver a requirement at TPC.

 

The facts don't support your pre-determined conclusion.

Come on man...he struggles with long clubs, the driver and at times the 3-fairway, and he struggles with 8i up. His putting, especially down the stretch in majors, has been, by any standard let alone the bar he set for himself, poor.
Zero sub-par rounds on the weekend in majors? That's middle-leaderboard golf and if anyone really believes that he is just not of the mindset to turn on the sluice of talent he has on reserve...then what is he waiting for?
I just do not understand how anyone can objectively believe there is no possibility that he has lost 'something' he once had.
Closing majors is an issue for Tiger, fearing the driver is an issue for Tiger, Putting under pressure in majors is an issue for Tiger, Hitting 9i-SW inside 70-100 yards is an issue for Tiger.


However, I digress onto the subject of 'Can We All Finally Agree Tiger Is Done'?
In all seriousness, when asked, "Will Woods do 'X' in his career" I can honestly say: "I don't know."
My personal opinion has always been that it's reasonable for anyone to have a view of Tiger The Golfer and Tiger The Person: he is among the best, if not the best, of all time at the former, and a rather bad example of the latter.
As for Tiger The Golfer these days there are plenty of reasons to to think he will fall short of 18, 19 or even 15.

However, looking at things positively:
1 - This is the first full, healthy season of play he has had since November 2009

2 - It has taken him about two full seasons for his previous major swing overhauls to gel, such that he could simply play and not have to think about the changes

3 - The flaws in his current game have always been the last aspects of his game to finally come under control as a result of the changes

 

A lot have advocated Tiger returning to Butch Harmon to work out a swing that both protects his health and seeks to bring back his power and his exquisite shot making ability. Because that is what is missing with Foley's swing: he is no longer a shot maker in my opinion and that's what's stopping him from hitting #15.

His record and winnings in non-Majors is all great but not relevant to this topic of discussion....which is Tiger Done/Not done and the former means 'winning Majors'. We all know that is all that matters to both Tiger and history.
Plus, it's really what this thread is about because if you ask Tiger about his standard for success in Majors he will tell you that "second place sucks".

That is what he believes, it was once what his fans believed and now that he is 4 years dry then winning the AP Invitational...The Memorial...AT&T National...and being #2 in the OGWR (which, incidentally, wasn't 'all that' last year when Messrs Kaymer, Donald and Westwood were there) is the standard to go by for success because for Tiger and the faithfull.... it fits the "#15 any time now" narrative.

post #160 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichF View Post

Come on man...he struggles with long clubs, the driver and at times the 3-fairway, and he struggles with 8i up. His putting, especially down the stretch in majors, has been, by any standard let alone the bar he set for himself, poor.


By his standards, you bet. And all we're seeing is that with his B- game he can still finish in the top 25 in majors, and win three times this year (he didn't have his A game at any of his wins this year).

 

A guy in the top five in total driving "struggles with the long clubs"? Okay. I've seen good things from him in 2012, in particular with the longer clubs. I think you forget how atrocious he was with them under Hank Haney.

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by RichF View Post

I just do not understand how anyone can objectively believe there is no possibility that he has lost 'something' he once had.

 

That right there is your problem. You're not reading the posts objectively yourself. I don't think anyone has said he's not lost something.

 

But he sure as heck ain't "done."

post #161 of 184

At the Barclays...

 

Rory and Zach are firing at pins...Tiger's going to the middle safe location.  

 

He's just playing too conservative all the time.  Go get em!

post #162 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanu4 View Post

This is by far the dumbest thread I've seen on here today. SERIOUSLY. Tiger is the best. Tiger is golf. Tiger is here to stay. Bottom line
 

I could not agree more.............STANDING OVATION! c3_clap.gif

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