Can you "clean up" the area where you intend to drop?

**Zeph** · September 3, 2011

You have to drop the ball for whatever reason, and finds that the best spot is a place with some twigs and pine cones. Are you allowed to remove any loose impediment where you want to drop, before dropping the ball? Essentially clearing up the area where you want to drop the ball, to give yourself the best possible lie. I suppose you are, since you can remove them after you've dropped, but thought I'd ask.

**sean_miller** · September 3, 2011

Originally Posted by Zeph

You have to drop the ball for whatever reason, and finds that the best spot is a place with some twigs and pine cones.

Are you allowed to remove any loose impediment where you want to drop, before dropping the ball? Essentially clearing up the area where you want to drop the ball, to give yourself the best possible lie.

I suppose you are, since you can remove them after you've dropped, but thought I'd ask.

Not if you're ever playing with me you aren't.

**Ignorant** · September 3, 2011

Originally Posted by Zeph

You have to drop the ball for whatever reason, and finds that the best spot is a place with some twigs and pine cones.

Are you allowed to remove any loose impediment where you want to drop, before dropping the ball? Essentially clearing up the area where you want to drop the ball, to give yourself the best possible lie.

I suppose you are, since you can remove them after you've dropped, but thought I'd ask.

Yes, you are. See Dec 23-1/6. You are not allowed to smooth any irregularities, though. That would be a breach of R13-2.

**Zeph** · September 3, 2011

Not if you're ever playing with me you aren't.

So you play golf like a lawless? :-P Thanks Ignorant.

**sean_miller** · September 3, 2011

One of the rulies says it's okay, so I guess it can be done. It still looks lame (to me).

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Not if you're ever playing with me you aren't.

So you play golf like a lawless?

Thanks Ignorant.

**boogielicious** · September 5, 2011

I saw Sergio Garcia do just that at a Tournament in the Middle East. He was walking in sand (a waste area) trying to decide if he should drop. He then smoothed out the sand and dropped. this was a week or two after Dustin Johnson got DQ'd in the famous "bunker". Seems like the rulings conflict a bit.

**luu5** · September 5, 2011

Originally Posted by boogielicious

I saw Sergio Garcia do just that at a Tournament in the Middle East. He was walking in sand (a waste area) trying to decide if he should drop. He then smoothed out the sand and dropped. this was a week or two after Dustin Johnson got DQ'd in the famous "bunker". Seems like the rulings conflict a bit.

I think you answered yourself the question you did not even ask, if that is possible. You wrote "waste area".

**boogielicious** · September 8, 2011

Yeah, I know. I just thought is was comical that this course was all "waste areas" and the Wisconsin course where DJ was DQ'd was all "bunkers". DJ barely grounds his club, that gave him no advantage, and Sergio performs landscaping to improve the drop area for his next play.

**Ignorant** · September 8, 2011

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Yeah, I know. I just thought is was comical that this course was all "waste areas" and the Wisconsin course where DJ was DQ'd was all "bunkers". DJ barely grounds his club, that gave him no advantage, and Sergio performs landscaping to improve the drop area for his next play.

Rules are not comical but consistent. What is comical is the difficulty of a common man/woman to understand perfectly logical rules and to distinguish through the green from hazards.

Besides, Sergio did not smooth the sand but merely removed loose impediments. Smoothing the sand on a waste area would be a breach of R13-2 and would cost the player 2 strokes.

**sean_miller** · September 8, 2011

Originally Posted by Ignorant

Rules are not comical but consistent. What is comical is the difficulty of a common man/woman to understand perfectly logical rules and to distinguish through the green from hazards.

Besides, Sergio did not smooth the sand but merely removed loose impediments. Smoothing the sand on a waste area would be a breach of R13-2 and would cost the player 2 strokes.

Perhaps he's laughing at the comedy of errors that is Dustin Johnson under pressure, the overrated Pet Dye joke of a course that is Whistling Straits?!?

**Shorty** · September 8, 2011

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Yeah, I know. I just thought is was comical that this course was all "waste areas" and the Wisconsin course where DJ was DQ'd was all "bunkers". DJ barely grounds his club, that gave him no advantage, and Sergio performs landscaping to improve the drop area for his next play.

DJ was not DQ'd. He was penalised.

He grounded his club in a bunker. What do you mean "no advantage"? What does that have to do with anything? He broke a very simple rule - admittedly at a crucial time, but what does that have to do with Garcia playing within the rules. Waste areas and bunkers are totally diffeent things.

These conditions are never secret or difficult to comprehend.

Ill tell you what might have ben an advantage for DJ - actually reading the notices that were plastered all over the locker room and given to the players reminding them about the extreemely high level of bunkering. Being a major champion could have been the result.

**Bryan SD2** · September 8, 2011

Oh lord... not this again.

You don't have to break a rule maliciously, with intent, or even gain an advantage to be penalized. There was a guy with a scorecard at the Masters once.... look him up.

The COURSE/PGA can set up the course any way they darn well please, from fairway width, green speed, lenght of rough etc. as well as determining which areas inside or outside the ropes are to be played as hazards or not. They CLEARLY communicated that hazards outside the ropes are hazards. Dustin Johnson ingonred that communication, which was #1 on the rules sheet if I recall.

Whether or not an advantage was gained is completely irrelevant... as the degree of advantage gained (or lack thereof) is not part of the rule book, nor should it be.

**Ignorant** · September 9, 2011

Originally Posted by Bryan SD2

Oh lord... not this again.

You don't have to break a rule maliciously, with intent, or even gain an advantage to be penalized. There was a guy with a scorecard at the Masters once.... look him up.

I thought every player has a scorecard at the Masters.

**Bryan SD2** · September 26, 2011

Originally Posted by Ignorant

I thought every player has a scorecard at the Masters.

Very good. You're following along nicely! Now... if a player makes a mistake with his scorecard - with or without intent - is the penalty the same? Nice username.

**Ignorant** · September 27, 2011

Originally Posted by Bryan SD2

Very good. You're following along nicely! Now... if a player makes a mistake with his scorecard - with or without intent - is the penalty the same? Nice username.

It depends. If the mistake has been made with intent then there is no limit after how long time the final results may be altered. If without intent, then the results stand after they have been published.

**sean_miller** · September 27, 2011

Just a guess - a mistake in his favour = DQ versus a mistake costing him strokes simply stands as his score?!?

Originally Posted by Bryan SD2

Very good. You're following along nicely! Now... if a player makes a mistake with his scorecard - with or without intent - is the penalty the same? Nice username.

**beisenhauer** · September 27, 2011

For those wondering what Bryan SD2 is referring to, Roberto DiVicenzo signed for a 4 on a hole where he made 3 in the final round of the Masters. The higher score stood. He lost to Bob Goalby by one stroke. He was reported to have said afterward, "I'm... such an idiot." Or maybe that was someone else.

***iacas*** · September 27, 2011

Originally Posted by beisenhauer

For those wondering what Bryan SD2 is referring to, Roberto DiVicenzo signed for a 4 on a hole where he made 3 in the final round of the Masters. The higher score stood. He lost to Bob Goalby by one stroke. He was reported to have said afterward, "I'm... such an idiot." Or maybe that was someone else.

"What a stupid I am" is the translation. "I am such an idiot" is Phil Mickelson, circa 2006 (??) U.S. Open at Winged Foot.

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