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My Swing (Hogan Project) - Page 11

post #181 of 269
I have perused your thread here, mainly because of my experience of utilizing Hogan's methods for learning to play and also incorporating many of his ideas and methods into my own game quite successfully, and at this point I just have one question for you:

Why have you chosen "not" to read the 5 Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf book?

That is all for now.

Thank you,

Jeff Walters

Golf Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #182 of 269
Thread Starter 


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Walters View Post

I have perused your thread here, mainly because of my experience of utilizing Hogan's methods for learning to play and also incorporating many of his ideas and methods into my own game quite successfully, and at this point I just have one question for you:
Why have you chosen "not" to read the 5 Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf book?
That is all for now.
Thank you,
Jeff Walters



Jeff,

 

My swing project is a basic test of observational learning. Is it possible to teach the body to do an entirely unknown movement using video analysis and repetitive training? How close can I come to Hogan’s golf swing? His books are probably really good reads and probably have outstanding information for a person wanting to better their game and build the fundamentals. But they are written from his perspective.

 

Regarding perspective,I've learned a lot about this phenomenon over the past few months. In my Take15 vid, I noticed that in the FO view, my right elbow had a mind of its own. Looks like it's getting stuck in the front, and is trying to attack my abdomen. How the heck is that happening lol. I am thinking nothing of the elbow here. Only my 2 right hands.

If someone were to analyze my vid and give their take on what they "see" me doing, it would most-likely be totally off base. And I'm saying this because I'm the guy actually doing the movement, but when I watch the video, I keep saying to myself "what the heck is going on???? I'm not trying to do that!" I can't even explain to myself what I see in the video cause it doesn't match what I am intentionally doing. This is a very strange feeling.......to intentionally do a movement and think in my mind that it should look the way it feels, but when I look at it, it's nowhere near what it should logically look like.

 

Regarding my 2 right hands. First off, it's absolutely nothing related to what I hear people saying about Hogan and his 3 right hands. (And I still have no idea what his 3 right hands rumor symbolizes).

For me, it's just a feeling I have during the takeaway and transition. While taking the club away, I can "feel" the weight of the club in my right hand/palm. That's kind of my 1st right-hand. Then as I begin the transition, my 2nd right-hand does some stuff. The "stuff" is what I'm not yet able to describe. I haven't done it enough to have it all figured out. I was only experimenting with it on Dec 29, but I can still do it today, I just don't know what to call it. (That's the plain ridiculious part lol! I'm the one doing it and I can't even tell myself what it is!! Lol!!)

The thing that I do know is that I cannot do hand#2 if hand#1 isn't in the correct position. I realized this a few nights after the Take15 vid. When I initially recorded it in Dec., I didn't pay any attention to what my right elbow was doing. My real purpose for Take15 was to get my camera aligned as close as I could to match the Coleman DTL view. I think I was working on getting my feet and legs in the correct position to run through the concentration drill a few times to find out how far I was off. Like an impromptu concentration baseline vid. As I went through it, I felt new, weird things happening during the transition. When I get these feelings, I always do a few full swings just to see what it looks like, and to have a record of my experiment.

Well, I grabbed a club a few days after shooting the Take15 vid, but COULD NOT. And of course, this pissed me off.....I don't like it when I record myself doing something in week1, but can't redo it again a couple of days later. I've done this many times before. Solution is to take lots of notes and video of the experiment. Lol, but every freakin stinkin time, I seem to leave out one of the most important details!

You should have seen me staring at that video! I'm standing there askin myself "Self, how the heck did you do that?!#$%." After about 30 mins, I realized that I was not getting into right-hand#1 position. When I finally got RH#1 doing what it was supposed to, RH#2 did it's part, and I was able to easily do what I did on Take15.

Can't wait to get to that part of the swing project so I can get deep into studying and analyzing RH#2.
 

I haven't seen/heard of anyone that has read the book and came away with an aesthetically close Hogan swing....that's why I want to try a different route. Many have read it and improved thier game, but that's not what I'm after right now. This current project only involves working towards the aesthetic swing and making it as repeatable as I can. Future projects will certainly focus on improving my ballstriking and shot shaping.

 

post #183 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Walters View Post

I have perused your thread here, mainly because of my experience of utilizing Hogan's methods for learning to play and also incorporating many of his ideas and methods into my own game quite successfully, and at this point I just have one question for you:
Why have you chosen "not" to read the 5 Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf book?
That is all for now.
Thank you,
Jeff Walters

I, too, have been mystified by this "journey" that HoganProject is on.  Reminds me of those cover bands that try to look like the Beatles, Eagles, etc.  At least in those cases, they actually try to sound like the original.  I'm not sure what the endgame for HoganProject is.  To look like Hogan? Since so much time has been involved, why not try to actually hit a golf ball like Hogan? It would never happen, of course, but that would be a more useful way to spend all those hours and days.
 

 

post #184 of 269
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

I, too, have been mystified by this "journey" that HoganProject is on.  Reminds me of those cover bands that try to look like the Beatles, Eagles, etc.  At least in those cases, they actually try to sound like the original.  I'm not sure what the endgame for HoganProject is.  To look like Hogan? Since so much time has been involved, why not try to actually hit a golf ball like Hogan? It would never happen, of course, but that would be a more useful way to spend all those hours and days.
 

 


 

Lol, I have no idea why anyone would be mystified by this. The project is only my version of fun. It only involves working towards the aesthetic swing and making it as repeatable as I can. Future projects will certainly focus on improving my ballstriking and shot shaping.
 

 

post #185 of 269

OK,

 

I will attempt this one more time, and this will be the last time.

 

My question to you is this, and simply this:

 

 

Why have you chosen "not" to read the "5 Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" book?

 

 

 

Jeff Walters

 

 

 

 

post #186 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan Project View Post

 

Lol, I have no idea why anyone would be mystified by this. The project is only my version of fun. It only involves working towards the aesthetic swing and making it as repeatable as I can. Future projects will certainly focus on improving my ballstriking and shot shaping.
 


To paraphrase Fernando, "It's better to LOOK like Hogan than to HIT THE BALL like Hogan".

 

post #187 of 269


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Walters View Post

OK,

 

I will attempt this one more time, and this will be the last time.

 

My question to you is this, and simply this:

 

 

Why have you chosen "not" to read the "5 Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" book?

 

 

 

Jeff Walters

 

 

 

 



He won't answer because he is pretending that he is involved in some kind of experiment

And that he doesn't need to know what Hogan said or thought. It's more about caps and baggy pants and esoteric conversations about goodness knows what. If you have a look at the videos you will notice that as much thought has gone into the bizarre choice of distracting music as golf and 90 percent of the video shows him standing there thinking. All slow motion, of course.

The rationale behind his experiment is highly personal and he has bought into the Hogan mystique, ignoring the fact that by most accounts Hogan was a highly distasteful person and the fact that Hogan's swing is by no means one you'd necessarily want to emulate.

He may as well be aping Corey Pavin or John Daly. But he likes the cool 40s and 50s vibe of the clothes.

post #188 of 269
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty View Post

 

He won't answer because he is pretending that he is involved in some kind of experiment

And that he doesn't need to know what Hogan said or thought. It's more about caps and baggy pants and esoteric conversations about goodness knows what. If you have a look at the videos you will notice that as much thought has gone into the bizarre choice of distracting music as golf and 90 percent of the video shows him standing there thinking. All slow motion, of course.

The rationale behind his experiment is highly personal and he has bought into the Hogan mystique, ignoring the fact that by most accounts Hogan was a highly distasteful person and the fact that Hogan's swing is by no means one you'd necessarily want to emulate.

He may as well be aping Corey Pavin or John Daly. But he likes the cool 40s and 50s vibe of the clothes.


 

Lol! Whew.....I haven't had these type questions in a while. You two guys must be new to the thread and probably missed my explanation(s) over the past months. I've answered these type questions many times before and I thought my response to Jeff Walters was sufficient. And I thought I saw a post from Jeff Walters that said " I perused your thread." I know what "perused" means, but I looked it up just to make sure:
 
Perusedpast participle, past tense of pe·ruse (Verb)
Verb:
  1. Read thoroughly or carefully.
  2. Examine carefully or at length.
 
Maybe Jeff meant to say he "glanced at it" or "skimmed through it," because I've answered these type questions many times before.
 
Lol, ok, here goes again.....
 
See these posts (One of them is specific to why I'm taking a route other than reading the books):
 
#23
#24
#34
#35
#36
#129
 

The reationale behind the experiment...it's a thesis: This project is a basic test of observational learning. Is it possible to teach the body to do an entirely unknown movement using video analysis and repetitive training? How close can I come to Hogan’s golf swing? That red-highlighted name; I could have plugged any name there. Tiger, Rory, Arnold, guy at my driving range, yours, or whoever....................... I just happened to pick Hogan's.

 

Shorty, as I re-read your post, it raised my eyebrows. As I am involved in analysis of human thinking on a daily basis, some of your comments got me curious.


"bizarre choice of distracting music" - Lol, I can relate to this. When I was a young lad, I couldn't understand why my Dad enjoyed listening to jazz. Sounded like a bunch of unorganized, untuned instruments playing out of sync. It is amazing that I have transitioned into enjoying this music. It's my favorite genre now. Hmmmmm, I'm not sure why you brought this point up though; my assumption is that you are not a jazz fan.

 

I have no concern of "most accounts" of Hogan's personality. I have no idea if it was distasteful. I never met him. I never met anyone that met him. I never met anyone that met anyone that met him lol. I only have concern of the swing aesthetic.

 

Yes Shorty, it is highly personal. It has nothing to do with anyone's golf game but mine.....and it will not affect your golf game. It will not affect your golf goals. ( I made a good post regarding "golf goals" somewhere in this thread).

 

All the clothing I wear is from 2010, although my socks are probably from 2008. The hat is a newsboy; it's what I saw my Dad and uncles wear as I grew up in the 70's, but was probably more commonly worn in late 19th and early 20th centuries.

 

Hmmmmm, I'm not sure why you don't understand the slow motion. Either you haven't watched NFL, or NCAA, or, MLB, or NASCAR replays or PGA swingvision, or your eyesight and visual processing speed may be a lot better than mine lol. I tend to see things a lot better when the are moving 1/2 or 1/4 speed. I'm looking for certain "absolutes" in the swing. My eyes/brain can't pick them up at full speed.

 

In closing, Jeff, I have chosen to not read the Hogan books because if 1,000,000 others have read it and have nothing near the Hogan swing aesthetic, I don't want to be person number 1,000,001. I will be reading all Hogan-related books when the project is completed. I may come to the realization that this aesthetic goal isn't possible,....but...and get used to me saying this...I'll let ya know if it wasn't possible when I'm finished with it.

 

 

P.S. Jeff, you said you have "experience of utilizing Hogan's methods for learning to play and also incorporating many of his ideas and methods into my own game quite successfully." Can you post a few vids of your swing from DTL and FO angles. It would be cool to see what you have learned. It would also be cool to see how you converted Hogan's ideas and methods from your mental perspective into your physical movement. I'm not sure if you utilize Hogan's methods to get aestetically or dynamically close to his, or if you are just wanting to improve your overall "natural" swing/game. But whichever the case, I enjoy picking the Hogan traits out of different people's golf swings. Helps to sharpen my eye. Looking forward to your vids.

post #189 of 269
Thread Starter 

Ball flight update:
We made it to the course on Sunday 2-5-12, although it was dreary and rainy. We initially went to Spring Hill, but didn't have a tee time, so the wait would have been a few hours. We were told to try Robert Trent Jones in Mobile. It was about 10 mins from Spring Hill. Because of the weather, we decided to skip the range and play the Short Course. It has only par 3's, which wasn't much fun to me cause I was looking forward to using my long woods; that's all I've been experimenting with in the basement the past few months. We only did 9 holes. My final score was 54. Lots of bogey's, as well as a 9 and a 10 on back-to-back holes. Ball flight was about the same as last year; kinda high and fading. There was also a big block to the right into the water twice.

The funniest part was when Bruce said "ummmmmmm, man, I thought you were working on this stuff every night in the basement????" I laughed and said "I've only been working on the setup." And of course he said "who the heck cares about the setup and the waggle and all that boring stuff???? None of that spit matters....only thing anybody cares about is how low you score. Man....you've wasted all this time worrying about teeing the ball up and waggling.....lol...you're wasting your time.......I will be taking your money all year long."


Practice update:
This cycle of waggle training is about done. I'll work on it some more when I go through the whole swing again from the beginning in a few months. The concentration drill takeaway coming up next.

post #190 of 269

OK, so you were 27 over for 9 holes.  The important question is:  Did you look like Hogan as you were doing it?

post #191 of 269
Thread Starter 


Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

OK, so you were 27 over for 9 holes.  The important question is:  Did you look like Hogan as you were doing it?



The swing itself...definitely looked nothing like Hogan's. The tee-up, step-away, step-in are getting closer. That's all I've worked on at this point.

 

Although there was a 3-some that caught up with us on hole #7. The heavyset guy saw me tee off (tee shot was blocked to the right into water hazard) and said "Hey dude, pretty good swing, but you're taking it away much too far inside. That's why you blocked it dead right. Anybody ever tell you your swing looks like Ben Hogan's?" Of course I laughed it off and said I didn't know anything about Hogan and that I was just a beginner taking lessons from a guy in my neighboorhood (ummm, that guy being me lol). I probably shouldn't have been so cordial and told him I was a beginner cause they caught up to us on the next hole and he gave me a complete lesson about the history of golf and the swing itself. He was a single handicap. My partner Bruce was laughing the whole time knowing that this guy was giving me a lesson on how Hogan did it, and I've been studying this in extreme detail for the past 6 months. I have lots of respect for that guy cause he was really trying to help, but regarding his "your swing looks like Hogan" comment, I'm learning that many people just don't understand the complex nature of it. The swing can have a Hogan "look," but there are lots of absolutes that must be hit in order for me to call it a Hogan swing. So far Martin Ayers is the closest, and there's another guy I met on youtube (not sure if he want's his name mentioned) that has a good understanding and will most likely conquer it. Mine is the furthest from a Hogan swing, but the again, I haven't worked on the swing yet.

 

P.S. If the guy on hole#7 reads this, my apology for not telling you about my project on the course. I also apologize for putting this on here, but just being honest. I would have had to answer 1000 questions on why I'm doing it, what Hogan secrets I've learned, etc.

 

 

 

post #192 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan Project View Post

Quote:"bizarre choice of distracting music" - Lol, I can relate to this. When I was a young lad, I couldn't understand why my Dad enjoyed listening to jazz. Sounded like a bunch of unorganized, untuned instruments playing out of sync. It is amazing that I have transitioned into enjoying this music. It's my favorite genre now. Hmmmmm, I'm not sure why you brought this point up though; my assumption is that you are not a jazz fan.

On the contrary, I very much like jazz. My point is that it is not the right kind of music to listen to at the same time as I watch golf swings. No problem. I can mute it. 

I think the thing that might be bugging the odd reader is the way you say that you just happen to have chosen Hogan's swing at random for your project. 

You claim that you could have chosen anyone or any activity, yet the text doesn't show that.

The study doesn't seem to be about that at all, rather, it is a very odd exercise with an explanation that doesn't make a lot of sense.

The videos show you attempting to ape mannerisms yet you pretend to have no actual intetrest in the swing or the man himself - but, you recount your excitement at being able to scrounge a clapped out set of Hogan clubs. That's cool, but it doesn't add up.

I can think of nothing weirder than playing with someone who claims not to want to score well, and feigns disinterest in the man or his methods, but wants to swing like Hogan.

I only hope that government money isn't being directed towards the weighty question:  "Is it possible to teach the body to do an entirely unknown movement using video analysis and repetitive training?"

The videos would tend to indicate  the answer: Yes, to a point - in the same way that a video of me washing a car might look similar to one of Bubba Watson washing a car.

 

post #193 of 269
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty View Post

On the contrary, I very much like jazz. My point is that it is not the right kind of music to listen to at the same time as I watch golf swings. No problem. I can mute it. 

I think the thing that might be bugging the odd reader is the way you say that you just happen to have chosen Hogan's swing at random for your project. 

You claim that you could have chosen anyone or any activity, yet the text doesn't show that.

The study doesn't seem to be about that at all, rather, it is a very odd exercise with an explanation that doesn't make a lot of sense.

The videos show you attempting to ape mannerisms yet you pretend to have no actual intetrest in the swing or the man himself - but, you recount your excitement at being able to scrounge a clapped out set of Hogan clubs. That's cool, but it doesn't add up.

I can think of nothing weirder than playing with someone who claims not to want to score well, and feigns disinterest in the man or his methods, but wants to swing like Hogan.

I only hope that government money isn't being directed towards the weighty question:  "Is it possible to teach the body to do an entirely unknown movement using video analysis and repetitive training?"

The videos would tend to indicate  the answer: Yes, to a point - in the same way that a video of me washing a car might look similar to one of Bubba Watson washing a car.

 



Shorty,

 

Everything you say is understood and well-taken. I have the upmost respect for your negative perspective on my project. Trust me, I get what you're saying......but I don't get why this bugs you. Why would you even allow this to bug you??

 

I never said I chose Hogan at random. I said I could have chosen any swing to study. I learned about Hogan on youtube while searching for stack n tilt vids. The movement of the swing itself was artful to me. I think the major problem you have with all this is that it doesn't make sense in relation to your golf goals. Man, don't take all this too serious. I'm just enjoying my hobby. I think you're wanting to make too much sense out of it. All I'm wanting to know is if I can teach myself a new golf swing....that's it. 

 

From what I have seen over the past 6 months, what I am doing really affects people, but I still don't know why. Whew, you should see some of the PM's I get...they're scary. This attitude confuses me because I see all golfers as family members. Lol, it's the people that don't play golf that I don't get along with very well lol. The guy that was giving me the impromptu golf lessons this past weekend on the 7th hole; I wonder if he would have been as open and helpful if I would have told him "yep, I've heard of Hogan...I'm trying to see if I can duplicate his swing." Lol, I don't think he would have talked to me for long......or he would have talked to me for hours trying to convince me that duplicating it is impossible.

 

Sooooo, enough about me. What are you working on in your game? Who is your favorite player? What golf books have you read? How long have you been playing? Did you or do you pattern your swing after anyone? What type scores do you shoot? Can you post some swing vids of you?

 

post #194 of 269

 

Well finally, I have gotten the answer to my 16 word question" which was "Why have you chosen "not" to read the "5 Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf" book?"

 

To save anyone or everyone interested, the time required to flesh it out for themselves here it is:

 

 

In closing, Jeff, I have chosen to not read the Hogan books because if 1,000,000 others have read it and have nothing near the Hogan swing aesthetic, I don't want to be person number 1,000,001.

 

 

And it only required 1539 words, comprising two posts to complete.

 

I must say that is quite an accomplishment.

 

 

Now to answer your request to me, included in your P.S. from post # 188:

 

P.S. Jeff, you said you have "experience of utilizing Hogan's methods for learning to play and also incorporating many of his ideas and methods into my own game quite successfully."

 

Can you post a few vids of your swing from DTL and FO angles.

 

***No, that is not possible, as none exist.***

 

It would be cool to see what you have learned.

 

***That also is not possible.***

 

It would also be cool to see how you converted Hogan's ideas and methods from your mental perspective into your physical movement.

 

***Once again, not possible.***

 

I'm not sure if you utilize Hogan's methods to get aestetically or dynamically close to his, or if you are just wanting to improve your overall "natural" swing/game.

 

***My purpose was to develop a repeating golf swing, to play better, and shoot lower scores. Nothing more.***

 

But whichever the case, I enjoy picking the Hogan traits out of different people's golf swings.

 

***Good luck in your endeavors.***

 

 Helps to sharpen my eye.

 

***If you say so, I wouldn't know.***

 

Looking forward to your vids.

 

***Sorry to disappoint you. I refer back to my first comment: No, that is not possible, as none exist ***

 

In closing, I can only offer a personal testimonial of what reading the book, helped me to achieve. I believe that reading the book “5 Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf” was of extreme benefit to me personally. The only proof I have is my personal experience which, unfortunately, I cannot quantify to you or any other living being.

 

Before reading the book, which was to the best of my recollection, about a year after I started playing golf, I carried a handicap of 25 or so, meaning that my scores averaged around 97 for 18 holes.

 

When I stopped playing, due to an injury to my left hand in which I lost parts of my middle and ring fingers, I had reached a handicap of 1.

 

And I achieved this primarily because of what I learned from "reading" the book and applying it to my golf swing. No video involved.

 

Good luck with your "Observational Learning" experiment.

 

 

Jeff Walters

post #195 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan Project View Post


Shorty,

 

Sooooo, enough about me. What are you working on in your game? Who is your favorite player? What golf books have you read? How long have you been playing? Did you or do you pattern your swing after anyone? What type scores do you shoot? Can you post some swing vids of you?

 

My favourite player of all time is Greg Norman. I saw him many times, and in many ways he was a more powerful and dominant player than Tiger was, despite his disappointing major record. You have to remember that this was before technology levelled the playing field somewhat. His driving was incredible. And he is regarded as the best driver of the ball in history.

The difference between him and everybody else at his peak, when he was on song, was huge. Massive. I saw pros he was playing with look at each other and just shake their heads after some of the shots he hit. He has disappointed me as ahuman being in the last decade or so, but truly you have never seen golf played properly if you didn't see him in his early 20s.

I have been playing for 40 years. Dabbled with the idea of becoming a pro, worked as a trainee for a short time but realised that at +2, I was not really good enough and didn't want to work in a pro shop.

I have had very few lessons, but tried to model my approach after Nicklaus and Tom Watson. Nicklaus's instructional books were great.

Between 12 and 23 I played three times a week and did practice pretty regualrly.

I currently hover around 2 or 3. Nowadays I play twice a week and do not practice. I might hit a bag of balls three times a year, but I find practice the most boring thing in the world.

We do not have  a practice fairway near the first or 10th tees, so I can't even warm up before playing because I refuse to hit off mats.

I have probably read every golf biography written in the last 30 years and am more interested in personalities than technique.

I prefer not to post swing vids of myself, as I am of the school that believes that seeing yourself CAN do more harm than good.

Regards and good luck!

Shorty


 

 

post #196 of 269
Thread Starter 


Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty View Post

My favourite player of all time is Greg Norman. I saw him many times, and in many ways he was a more powerful and dominant player than Tiger was, despite his disappointing major record. You have to remember that this was before technology levelled the playing field somewhat. His driving was incredible. And he is regarded as the best driver of the ball in history.

The difference between him and everybody else at his peak, when he was on song, was huge. Massive. I saw pros he was playing with look at each other and just shake their heads after some of the shots he hit. He has disappointed me as ahuman being in the last decade or so, but truly you have never seen golf played properly if you didn't see him in his early 20s.

I have been playing for 40 years. Dabbled with the idea of becoming a pro, worked as a trainee for a short time but realised that at +2, I was not really good enough and didn't want to work in a pro shop.

I have had very few lessons, but tried to model my approach after Nicklaus and Tom Watson. Nicklaus's instructional books were great.

Between 12 and 23 I played three times a week and did practice pretty regualrly.

I currently hover around 2 or 3. Nowadays I play twice a week and do not practice. I might hit a bag of balls three times a year, but I find practice the most boring thing in the world.

We do not have  a practice fairway near the first or 10th tees, so I can't even warm up before playing because I refuse to hit off mats.

I have probably read every golf biography written in the last 30 years and am more interested in personalities than technique.

I prefer not to post swing vids of myself, as I am of the school that believes that seeing yourself CAN do more harm than good.

Regards and good luck!

Shorty

 


 

Good stuff Shorty. I've never really looked at Greg Norman in great detail before. I saw him on Golf Channel doing lessons and looked like he still had it. I'll do some research and find out more about his method. Man, you're a 2 or 3. I'm looking forward to being a single handicap some day. Probably gonna take a few years to get there. Now I'm wondering what's holding you back from becoming a 0! Just curious, being a 2 or 3, what tees do you hit from?

 

Yea, we're opposites when it comes to practice; I enjoy that part the most. Actually, I enjoy analyzing practice. I like graph, charts, data, and observing change. It's even more fun when I'm the teacher and the student. Maybe that's why my project is so fun for me. I've been into the game since 2007. I've not read any golf books, but I was a golf magazine junkie for 3+ years. That's how I initially learned the swing. When I get to the single digits, I'm gonna look you up to play a round! And don't worry, I won't weird you out....... by that time I'll be done with the project and will probably have failed at Hogan and will be back to my original swing lol.

 

post #197 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan Project View Post

Quote:"bizarre choice of distracting music" - Lol, I can relate to this. When I was a young lad, I couldn't understand why my Dad enjoyed listening to jazz. Sounded like a bunch of unorganized, untuned instruments playing out of sync. It is amazing that I have transitioned into enjoying this music. It's my favorite genre now. Hmmmmm, I'm not sure why you brought this point up though; my assumption is that you are not a jazz fan.

On the contrary, I very much like jazz. My point is that it is not the right kind of music to listen to at the same time as I watch golf swings. No problem. I can mute it. 

I think the thing that might be bugging the odd reader is the way you say that you just happen to have chosen Hogan's swing at random for your project. 

You claim that you could have chosen anyone or any activity, yet the text doesn't show that.

The study doesn't seem to be about that at all, rather, it is a very odd exercise with an explanation that doesn't make a lot of sense.

The videos show you attempting to ape mannerisms yet you pretend to have no actual intetrest in the swing or the man himself - but, you recount your excitement at being able to scrounge a clapped out set of Hogan clubs. That's cool, but it doesn't add up.

I can think of nothing weirder than playing with someone who claims not to want to score well, and feigns disinterest in the man or his methods, but wants to swing like Hogan.

I only hope that government money isn't being directed towards the weighty question:  "Is it possible to teach the body to do an entirely unknown movement using video analysis and repetitive training?"

The videos would tend to indicate  the answer: Yes, to a point - in the same way that a video of me washing a car might look similar to one of Bubba Watson washing a car.

 



You should post a FO and DTL video of you washing the General Lee - don a wig and wear a lot of denim and well do a side-by-side comparison.

 

PS. If you ever shot a 54 on a par 3 golf course (and you weren't 4 years old or 104 years old), would you keep on golfing or would you find a new hobby?

 

post #198 of 269
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Walters View Post

 

In closing, I can only offer a personal testimonial of what reading the book, helped me to achieve. I believe that reading the book “5 Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf” was of extreme benefit to me personally. The only proof I have is my personal experience which, unfortunately, I cannot quantify to you or any other living being.

 

Before reading the book, which was to the best of my recollection, about a year after I started playing golf, I carried a handicap of 25 or so, meaning that my scores averaged around 97 for 18 holes.

 

When I stopped playing, due to an injury to my left hand in which I lost parts of my middle and ring fingers, I had reached a handicap of 1.

 

And I achieved this primarily because of what I learned from "reading" the book and applying it to my golf swing. No video involved.

 

Good luck with your "Observational Learning" experiment.

 

 

Jeff Walters


Thanks Jeff. I believe in your belief. I'm looking forward to reading the book. And based on your statements about your handicap, I would have to guess that your overall golfing goal and satisfaction was related to scoring.

 

 


 

 

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