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My Swing (Hogan Project) - Page 12

post #199 of 269

Damn, why haven't I discovered this thread sooner?

 

Hogan Project, either you are insane or you have the mental toughness of an elite Michael Jackson impersonator. For the good of all humanity, I pray for the later.

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post #200 of 269

I think this is a great project. I hope it works out well for you from an educational standpoint. I've been obsessively studying Tiger's 2012 swing for a month now and my only hope is to fix my takeaway as I've stated in other threads. I understand your point about watching then duplicating. Its more natural than trying to read from that person's perspective... though in my case I want to read then watch.

post #201 of 269
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryVardon09 View Post

I think this is a great project. I hope it works out well for you from an educational standpoint. I've been obsessively studying Tiger's 2012 swing for a month now and my only hope is to fix my takeaway as I've stated in other threads. I understand your point about watching then duplicating. Its more natural than trying to read from that person's perspective... though in my case I want to read then watch.



Yep Harry. I also think reading then watching would be the most logical way to go. But I want to avoid any possiblilty of someone elses perspective having any influence on me, because they may feel and describe certain points in a way that I cannot relate to, or they may leave out points that may be natural to them. Let's say, that during Hogan's setup/waggle, the hips move toward the target while getting the feet set, and that this hip movement/direction is influenced by the pressing of the right instep into the ground. Hogan might not mention this because for him this is common sense and there is no need to mention it because everyone that is in the setup phase will naturally do this movement.

 

During my studies, I've found a few things that appear to happen on the screen, but are totally opposite when performed by myself. If I were to watch the video, and write about what I see, it would make common logical sense on paper. But when I record myself and follow my paper directions, my movement is totally different. I have to perform the movement and compare it to video, then write notes, because even my own eyes and logic fool me. One example is in my Take15 video. I'm experimenting with my right hand. As I am carrying out the physicalmovement, I'm deadly focused on my right hand. I'm actively, intentionally making it do something. When I play the video back, I'm intentionally watching for the result of what I was doing with my right hand. My buddy Bruce saw the video and called me. Said that my right elbow was getting in a much better position. Said that I was making mine do what Hogan and Dustin Johnson do. Without hesitation, I explained that he was wrong.....I was doing nothing with the right elbow. Only the right hand/wrist. He raised his voice and said something like "yeaa yeaa, I'm not as dumb as you think I am. I'm not as deep into studying the swing like you, but I can clearly see what you are doing with the danm elbow. Now tell me what it is so I can try it." I argued back that I was doing something with my right hand/wrist and didn't give a crap about the elbow. So wer're on the phone playing the vid back frame-by-frame. I'm describing what I am doing. When I get to the wrist part, I'm now talking to him like a kid lol. I'm kinda pissed cause I'm having to defend my own stinking video, and I'm the person actually doing the movement...so how the heck can somebody else TELL me what I'm doing. He tells me to fast forward a few more frames then he yells "RIGHT THERE....YOU ARE TUCKING YOUR ELBOW LIKE DUSTIN JOHNSON." Lol, I'm staring at it the screen and can now see what he's talking about. Then he yapped some more about me trying to keep the elbow move a secret cause I couldn't explain how I was doing it. There is no secret to what I'm doing with the elbow, cause I'm not doing anything with it...I'm doing something with my right hand/wrist, but I have no idea what it is. My intention is the hand; the result is the elbow.

 

The point I'm making here.....if Bruce watched a video and wrote what he saw from his perspective, he might leave something out, or might describe something that is common and natural to him, but forein to me.

 

post #202 of 269

While you are arguing back and forth with your buddy on what your right elbow or right wrist or whatever may or may not be doing I am still wondering, with your swing supposedly getting so close to Hogan's in appearance, why you can't play golf worth a damn.  I know your purpose is obviously not to play good golf, but it still makes no sense.

post #203 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

While you are arguing back and forth with your buddy on what your right elbow or right wrist or whatever may or may not be doing I am still wondering, with your swing supposedly getting so close to Hogan's in appearance, why you can't play golf worth a damn.  I know your purpose is obviously not to play good golf, but it still makes no sense.



I like the Michael Jackson impersonator comment someone made. After spending a year perfecting the crotch grab, will I miraculously have learned to do the moon walk?

 

post #204 of 269
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

While you are arguing back and forth with your buddy on what your right elbow or right wrist or whatever may or may not be doing I am still wondering, with your swing supposedly getting so close to Hogan's in appearance, why you can't play golf worth a damn.  I know your purpose is obviously not to play good golf, but it still makes no sense.

Looks l ike you also missed my latest upates. Right now, I am only working on the Tee-up, Step-Away, Step-In, Waggle. I can't play golf worth a danm cause I haven't worked on that part of the project yet. I have not worked on the swing.

 

An example for you to gain a better understanding:

My sister was in a head-on collision with an 18-wheeler. Had major head injury. Lost all motor function. Could remember in her mind how to walk, but could not transfer this mental thought into muscular movement. Had to learn how to walk again just as a toddler does. She remembers how to run the 100meter dash and could describe it in detail. For about 6 months, she only worked on easing off the side of her bed, placing her feet on the floor, then standing there balanced for 15 seconds taking no steps at all. Why couldn't she sprint worth a danm at that point?? Because she hadn't worked on that part of her rehab yet.

 

 

post #205 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan Project View Post

Quote:

Looks l ike you also missed my latest upates. Right now, I am only working on the Tee-up, Step-Away, Step-In, Waggle. I can't play golf worth a danm cause I haven't worked on that part of the project yet. I have not worked on the swing.

Six months into the project, and you've only got as far as Hogan's waggle? Are you sure you don't want to consult Hogan for guidance? He might know a few things that could help you.

post #206 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post



I like the Michael Jackson impersonator comment someone made. After spending a year perfecting the crotch grab, will I miraculously have learned to do the moon walk?

 



Well put.  I never really understood the point of all this.  Seems like alot of time wasted if you ask me. Pretty much sums up my username Poser.. 

post #207 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan Project View Post

Quote:

Looks l ike you also missed my latest upates. Right now, I am only working on the Tee-up, Step-Away, Step-In, Waggle. I can't play golf worth a danm cause I haven't worked on that part of the project yet. I have not worked on the swing.

Six months into the project, and you've only got as far as Hogan's waggle? Are you sure you don't want to consult Hogan for guidance? He might know a few things that could help you.



Mr. Hogan is probably looking down (or up?) right now and scowling. The secret is in the dirt - not in the outfit and the waggle.

post #208 of 269
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post



Mr. Hogan is probably looking down (or up?) right now and scowling. The secret is in the dirt - not in the outfit and the waggle.


Lol, if only you guys knew of the cool things I've learned while studying the waggle. Funny thing is that none of it is a secret; it's right there in the video to see. I could be wrong cause I haven't gotten to the actual swing yet, but I would guess that a lot of the swing  concepts are built into the waggle. I'll know if this is a bad guess over the cours of the next few years..

 

 

post #209 of 269
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

Six months into the project, and you've only got as far as Hogan's waggle? Are you sure you don't want to consult Hogan for guidance? He might know a few things that could help you.



I may be on the waggle for the next year.......not sure yet. Whenever I get absolutely bored and stop making progress and stop learning new things, I will consult Hogan's book.

 

post #210 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan Project View Post


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post



Mr. Hogan is probably looking down (or up?) right now and scowling. The secret is in the dirt - not in the outfit and the waggle.


Lol, if only you guys knew of the cool things I've learned while studying the waggle. Funny thing is that none of it is a secret; it's right there in the video to see. I could be wrong cause I haven't gotten to the actual swing yet, but I would guess that a lot of the swing  concepts are built into the waggle. I'll know if this is a bad guess over the cours of the next few years..

 

 


If you're treating it as a lifetime project, then fill your boots. Some guys debate the minutae of course design, others every statute in the rule book, and you're all over Hogan's waggle. Seriously, who are any of us to judge what someone else gets out of golf.
 

 

post #211 of 269
Thread Starter 

post #212 of 269
Thread Starter 

post #213 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan Project View Post



 

Wow.

 

post #214 of 269
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post



 

Wow.

 



Yep, I said the same thing when I saw the range footage.  I had no idea that the commercial driving range mat in my basement was so giving. It was absorbing the fatness. I'm really not concerned about impact right now, cause the swing is far from being ready to hit a ball, but I wanted to see if the closeup mat impact was same as range ground impact. Only true concern right now is the takeaway.

 

 

Also, looking at that slo mo impact footage, my target is just where the ball is heading, but from the DTL view, looks like my target should be to the left. My 5metal distance in that vid was about 150-160 yds. My guess is cause the club was releasing most of its energy into those rocks on the ground, instead into the ball. The old swing with same club was 200-210.

 

If I wanted to play a round of golf right now, I think I just need to flatten the swing a bit, maybe move the ball back some, and close my stance in relation to the target.

 

I wonder what my old swing impact was like. It wasn't fat, but I wonder how the club came into the ball. Was it square, open, closed? Was it middle, right, or left CF? I can't even remember how to do the old swing!

 

post #215 of 269
Thread Starter 

Here's an example of what I'm doing from the perspective of a person tinkering with a car:

I own a basic, plain, 1991 S10 pickup with 2.5l 4 cylinder. It drives ok except for the ocassional sputtering and white smoke when I start it. The window seals and hood vents have rust buildup. It doesn't have the best torque or speed, but gets me to work every day just fine. I can't floor it and jump into traffic, but it does ok for me.
(The golf relation: In 2009 and 2010, I owned a basic, plain golf swing. Nothing special about it. It got me around the course. I could drive the ball ok, except for the occassional push block or shank. The swing didnt have the best speed, but I had lots of fun playing with my foursome every weekend.)

S10 Pickup Overhaul: I was flipping channels one day and saw a show about overhauling trucks. One of the trucks on the show caught my eye. It was a rust bucket that looked like it hadn't been driven for years. They were replacing the heads, jettin the carb, adding custom wheels/tires, custom paint job, lowering it for better cornering performance, etc. I thought, hmmmmmm, nothing major is wrong with my truck the way it is, but I wonder if I can make a few changes to it and make it look different...maybe even perform better? What do I have to lose? If I blow the engine, I'll just drive my other car lol.

Golf Swing Overhaul: I was flipping youtube channels one day and saw some old black n white footage of a dude in a white hat. The swing looked unlike any other that I had ever seen. I said, hmmmmm, nothing major is wrong with my swing, but I wonder if I can learn how to do that type of swing? What do I have to lose? If I can't learn this new swing, I'll just go back to swinging like I always did lol.

S10 Pickup Overhaul: So I begin the process of tearing down my truck. While I'm rebuilding the engine and adding parts, I willl take it out for a drive to see how it was performing based on the things I had changed. I put a new carb in it...take it out and noticed that it had better gas pedal response, but it sputtered at high speeds. So I would take it back into the garage and tweek the carb some more. I also notice that when it came time to slam on the brakes and slow the thing down, it didn't stop as it should. More tweeking.

Golf Swing Overhaul: As I am in the process of overhauling my swing, I will take it out to the range or course to see what it is doing. I will do this weekly. I will analyze my movement as well as performance. When I see that my impact it fat and steep, I will just make a note in my journal with a date stamp so I can look back and see how I changed.....or didn't change, but I won't focus on fixing the impact issue because I'm still overhauling the swing.

S10 Pickup Overhaul: As the overhaul is complete and the engine is humming, I might get the urge to put it in a race. Will I be able to drive it to Talladega and enter it into a NASCAR event? Definitely not, but I can take it to any local track on a Friday nite, spin the tires and have a blast of a time, and maybe even take a few pink slips? Yep!

Golf Swing Overhaul: As the swing rebuilding is complete and the impact and ball flight is solid and predictable, I might get the urge to enter a tournament. Will I be able to put on my Foot Joys and take my persimmons to the US Open? Nope, but I can take them to any local course and have a blast of a time from the white tees, and maybe even win a trophy or two? Yep!

post #216 of 269

Wow. I tried to read as much of this as I could possibly handle. I think I got to page 6 or 7 before my brain shut down.

 

Parts of this are sad. Parts are funny, amusing, aggravating, inspiring, confusing, and just plain weird.

 

"Hogan Project" (I don't recall seeing your name at any point): I commend you for your persistence and your dedication along with your attention to detail. There are many people who could benefit greatly from these qualities you possess and exhibit strongly. I'm amused by your desire to try and do so much on your own instead of leaning on the decades of research, improvement in technology and probably dozens of PGA professionals nearby you that could help your golf game and accelerate your progress (the analogy of crossing the 390,000 sq ft desert with a tiny water bottle and no map couldn't be any better). I'm completely stumped by the "goal" that you continue to state, that you only desire to have a swing that looks like Hogan's. You seem like quite a character (I mean that in a positive way), hopefully I get to meet you one day.

 

Here's what I think: you love golf. I think most members on here do. You have somehow convinced yourself that you could never possibly be a scratch player (or better). You honestly do not believe that you can play par golf one day. So instead of setting that as a goal, which in your mind would be impossible, you set off on a separate mission, to imitate one of the best swings in history, with no "direct" intention of playing better golf because that is less scary to you (funny how you mention the "possible," "indirect" benefits that, "could" come from this. Read: SCORING). You can't seem to acknowledge that with your approach (NOT EVEN READING HOGAN'S BOOK!!?!, etc.) you've created an equally difficult task. I don't mean to sound harsh. This allows you to continue to play the game you love, while making progress on a chart no one else uses or relates to.  You might not want to admit it, but you would get more enjoyment & satisfaction (I'm not saying it would be easier) out of saying, "I'm going to become the best golfer I can possibly be," and seeking a PGA professional, studying as much as you can, and practicing as much as you can. I guarantee it.  I know we have different opinions but you cannot deny that you have chosen a more obscure goal than most members on this board. Most people just want to play better golf. You want to imitate a swing. Now if you fail, you don't have to face the reality that you failed at golf, you only failed at imitating Hogan, which to you is much less frightening.  The fact that you play in tournaments and you keep score doesn't help your case. These are blatant signs that you want to get better at golf.

 

I would bet my house right now that when you get to "Take 100", even if you are able to make an absolute shining replica of a Hogan swing at 60% or 70% speed, or a 100% speed practice swing, when you take that swing to hit a ball at 100% or close to it, you will have significant breakdowns from P5-P7 and maybe worse. I would go even further (which I know you'll say is irrelevant to your goal) to predict that your average score will be within 3 strokes of what it is now. Especially if you're not spending much time on your short game.

 

I hope I don't sound negative. I'm just giving my honest feedback. I think you should consider taking some advice here and doing an honest self re-evaluation.

 

-Taylor

 

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