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My Swing (Hogan Project) - Page 15

post #253 of 269
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonK88S View Post

We'll no offense or anything but not a 25 handicapper. I'm a 17 handicap and I'm FAR from being good at golf. I really do not know what a "good" golfer would normally score but let me rephrase... Are you trying to better yourself at golf or just look like Ben Hogan when you golf? Once again I am not trying to offend, just trying to get an idea of whats going on here.

Understood. No offense taken. This project is a basic test of observational learning. Is it possible to teach the body to do an entirely unknown movement using video analysis and repetitive training? How close can I come to Hogan’s golf swing? This has nothing to do with a handicap. 

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post #254 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan Project View Post

Understood. No offense taken. This project is a basic test of observational learning. Is it possible to teach the body to do an entirely unknown movement using video analysis and repetitive training? How close can I come to Hogan’s golf swing? This has nothing to do with a handicap. 

Understood. Just did not know if you were just looking for a swing to imitate in order to achieve lower scores. I was just confused that is all. Good luck with your project though. I'll keep checking in often as it gives me something to do while I'm at work. Also the stories of you breaking your windshield and smashing a ball around your garage are quite funny. f3_laugh.gif

post #255 of 269

I admire and applaud your courage to undertake this project. It's no small thing to abandon something with which you've come so familiar and chart a different course. I know because similarly, I rebuilt my swing last winter (also in the comfort and convenience of a cold, unfinished space). In the course of hitting the first few hundred balls off a range mat, I developed severe acute medial- and lateral epicondylitis (tendonitis) in my right arm. In fact, the whole reason I decided to rebuild my swing was because I had been experiencing reoccurring tendonitis over the years which ultimately forced me to give up the game for several years and take up something far more punishing -- competitive cycling.

 

Those of you who know about golfer's elbow and tennis elbow would know that you'd have to have a pretty bad swing to develop both kinds of epicondylitis in the same arm, and yet I played in the low single digits even with some level of pain. And being young, I never bothered to rectify the problem until the years took their toll.

 

During my golf renaissance, the most important thing I learned about epicondylitis is that it is caused by a strenuous repetitive wrist action--an incorrect golfing wrist action--and not necessarily some poor mechanics of the elbow. And the ill effects of the wrist action is compounded by the club's violent impact with the ground.

 

I mention this because I had to wince while watching you strike that artificial mat laying on a concrete floor--a setup very similar to the one I had originally devised. And I can only imagine what fate is in store for your epicondyles. So I just wanted to share what I did to avoid aggravating my tendonitis prone elbow as I rebuilt my swing avoid redeveloping the condition in the future.

 

First I replaced the typical practice mat with a Fairway Pro divot simulator, and placed it on a rubber mats commonly used with a indoor stationary trainer to give the Fairway Pro some traction as well as absorb some of the impact. The other thing I did was to begin practicing with a Tour Striker training iron. This had a twofold benefit. First, as a training device, it helped me improve my swing mechanics and thereby eliminated one of my swing tendencies that contributed to my injury. Second, since the blade of the Tour Striker doesn't have a leading edge, it doesn't make contact as violently as a normal iron.

 

Between using these two tools, I was able to hit balls for countless hours all winter with minimal aggravation until my tendonitis eventually cleared up completely. And after rebuilding my swing, I didn't have a recurrence all season. And playing pain free, I was able to return to the low single digits.

 

This off-season I hope to add a Net Return so I don't have to waste time chasing after balls.

 

Anyway, good luck with your project. Let us all know how it goes. Hogan's swing is a beautiful one to emulate. And a daunting one at that.

post #256 of 269
Thread Starter 

post #257 of 269

Thanks for that extra 6:30 of video of you getting dressed.....
 

post #258 of 269
Thread Starter 
Lol, sorry bout that. But that was the best part of the vid. Swing is bad. Getting dressed is good. And thank you sir or ma'am for taking the time to do that math for us.
post #259 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan Project View Post

Lol, sorry bout that. But that was the best part of the vid. Swing is bad. Getting dressed is good. And thank you sir or ma'am for taking the time to do that math for us.


That is okay, I am here to bust balls and state the obvious. I dunno if it was bad, it didn't seem too far off your goal to look like hogan. I don't know if you are wanting the performance with it or not.

post #260 of 269
Thread Starter 

Take 47 - Introducing irons...SW and 2iron - 12-31-12


 
00:00 to 3:04 is reg speed.
4:33 to end is slow mo.
 
This iron stuff is veeeeeeewy stwaaaaaaaange compared to a 5-wood. The SW weight is way different. I'm real close and bent over the ball. The 2iron head feels too light. I must have shanked 30 balls into that black bag sitting in front of the monitor. Couldn't figure out why it was happening, then I remembered that I have to address the irons with the toe on the ball and not the face, cause my club moves in toward the ball. Don't know if that's a bad thing or not. I learned some lessons from Byron Nelson and Hogan video this weekend......appears they were pushers of the club through impact. On the Coleman vid where Hogan says "very little pressure of the index finger of the right hand and the thumb. You get the pressure of your right hand with this butt pad of your index finger, going thru. There isn't any pressure going down or around....It just follows." What the heck does 'it just follows' mean????? All while he demonstrates a pushing motion. Not sure he was actually referring to a pushing with the arm, or hand, or something else. Will put together a Pushing Compilation vid. I really see this push-impact in Nelson, Trevino, Furyk, Calvin Peete . I sorta see it in Hogan too.
 
post #261 of 269
Thread Starter 

Take 48 - Custom Swing Drill - 1-5-13


 
00:00 to 00:30 is reg speed.
00:34 to 4:20 is slow mo.
 
Working with the SW on one of my new custom swing drills. My favorite drill so far. Can't give any details about it yet cause I haven't finalized the whole thing. Still tweaking it.
 
post #262 of 269
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleygolfer View Post


That is okay, I am here to bust balls and state the obvious. I dunno if it was bad, it didn't seem too far off your goal to look like hogan. I don't know if you are wanting the performance with it or not.

 

I don't have a performance goal. Don't care about ball flight, distance, trajectory, scoring, etc. I just want to see if it is possible to teach one's self how to do something different. Same as learning a new dance by watching someone else. Or learning a new language by listening to someone else. When you were 3 years old, you were learning things through observation and you didn't even realize it. 

 

So, in this case, I'm just a 5' 7"  3-year old with a set of persimmons and blades.

 

When/if I get bored with the aesthetics, I'll most likely move on to the performance stuff.

post #263 of 269
Thread Starter 
Take 49 - Advanced Experiments - 1-7-13 
 
I shouldn't even be thinking about any of this advanced stuff, but the BCS game got boring so i had to find something to help pass the time away. Figured i'd do a few early experiments. Oh well, advanced experiment was fun.......back to the elementary drills tomorrow.
 
post #264 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan Project View Post

Take 49 - Advanced Experiments - 1-7-13 
 
I shouldn't even be thinking about any of this advanced stuff, but the BCS game got boring so i had to find something to help pass the time away. Figured i'd do a few early experiments. Oh well, advanced experiment was fun.......back to the elementary drills tomorrow.
 

 

 

First, as someone who once attempted the same project you are now, I want to applaud your effort and progress. I never quite was able to fully emulate Hogan, but learning to execute his fundamentals made me the ball striker I had always aimed to be; evolving from a hitter who tried to muscle to ball toward the target, to some a swinger who now allows the shaft to do the work. Hogan taught me to merely put the shaft in the correct position on the correct plane and allow the laws of material mechanics to take control. I the process, I went from being a player who would go out in 38 and then come in in 42, to a player who can now go out and come in under 40. My old swing was killing my backside, both the backside score and my own. 

 

Now what I'm missing from the front view is the very subtle sitting or squating move Hogan made as he drove his hips laterally and initiated his lower body turn.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6B_XEQlZxA

 

Rory does this too, but its a little more discernible.

 

The immediate consequence of not making is sitting mover is difficult to determine in your swing, but it seems you're pulling out much earlier than Hogan did, even to the point of lifting your horizontal COG. Try comparing where your shoulders are at impact to where Hogan's are. His upper body stays (and nearly finishes) on the same horizontal plane all the way though impact.

 

Just something to consider.

post #265 of 269
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by westpenncyclist View Post

 

 

First, as someone who once attempted the same project you are now, I want to applaud your effort and progress. I never quite was able to fully emulate Hogan, but learning to execute his fundamentals made me the ball striker I had always aimed to be; evolving from a hitter who tried to muscle to ball toward the target, to some a swinger who now allows the shaft to do the work. Hogan taught me to merely put the shaft in the correct position on the correct plane and allow the laws of material mechanics to take control. I the process, I went from being a player who would go out in 38 and then come in in 42, to a player who can now go out and come in under 40. My old swing was killing my backside, both the backside score and my own. 

 

Now what I'm missing from the front view is the very subtle sitting or squating move Hogan made as he drove his hips laterally and initiated his lower body turn.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6B_XEQlZxA

 

Rory does this too, but its a little more discernible.

 

The immediate consequence of not making is sitting mover is difficult to determine in your swing, but it seems you're pulling out much earlier than Hogan did, even to the point of lifting your horizontal COG. Try comparing where your shoulders are at impact to where Hogan's are. His upper body stays (and nearly finishes) on the same horizontal plane all the way though impact.

 

Just something to consider.

Thanks westpenn. I know exactly what you're talking about regarding the squat, or lowering move. I'll surely add that. Just not yet though. This take49 video was just me wanting to try what I've been analyzing for the past week. I've been super-micro analyzing Hogan iron swings; My brain understands what the movements are, so I wanted to see what my brain would tell my body. I'll play around with the advanced stuff a little more, but then it's back to my foundational drills.

 

Where's your swing vid? I like picking Hogan traits out of golf swings.

post #266 of 269

WoW!!!  Whether you reach your goal or not, I extremely admire your enthusiasm for this project and your diligence towards it.  Keep it up!!!

post #267 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogan Project View Post


I took a survey of all the golfers I came in contact with. At the course, on the range, at work, at the mall, at football games, etc. I asked, "who was known to have the greatest golf swing of all time.......ever?" The name "Hogan" was the winner. So, this is the swing I will work towards. This project has nothing to do with scoring or handicaps.....just to see how close I can come to matching the movements.
 



 

I did not have the time to go through all of the 15 pages of quotes so if this was said already, sorry for the repost.  I think what you are doing is a great display of attention to detail and commitment.

That being said, isn't Snead's swing universally considered the best of all time?  I'm just asking because I always had that thinking.

post #268 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfer20 View Post

WoW!!!  Whether you reach your goal or not, I extremely admire your enthusiasm for this project and your diligence towards it.  Keep it up!!!

Right on, keep it going mate.

post #269 of 269

The vids of my Hogan swing project are in the dustbin of history, in part because they were recorded on VHS.

 

Speaking of a video analysis of Hogan's swing, I thought you might be interested in this, if you haven't already seen it:

 

http://www.somaxsports.com/video.php?analysis=ben-hogan-golf-swing-analysis

 

The site also has in depth video crtiques of Rory, Tiger, Phil, Dustin, and others, using the same methodology. The "squating" move I mentioned seems to be a no-no according to it.

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