Jump to content
IGNORED

Putting Question


colin007
Note: This thread is 4512 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

so i like to get as much info on the slope of a putt by using my feet.  and i know that i cannot take a stance anywhere on the line of the putt and then put the putter head on the line to "feel" with my feet and the putter how the putt will break.

however - can i put the putter down on the inside or outside of the putting line?  like if i have a pretty straight 5 footer and i think it goes right a little bit, can i put the putter 6 inches outside the line but not directly on the line?

Colin P.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades



Originally Posted by colin007

so i like to get as much info on the slope of a putt by using my feet.  and i know that i cannot take a stance anywhere on the line of the putt and then put the putter head on the line to "feel" with my feet and the putter how the putt will break.

however - can i put the putter down on the inside or outside of the putting line?  like if i have a pretty straight 5 footer and i think it goes right a little bit, can i put the putter 6 inches outside the line but not directly on the line?


See Rule 16-1:

16-1. General
a.Touching Line of Putt
The line of putt must not be touched except:
(i) the player may remove loose impediments, provided he does not
press anything down;
(ii) the player may place the club in front of the ball when addressing
it, provided he does not press anything down;
(iii) in measuring – Rule 18-6;
(iv) in lifting or replacing the ball – Rule 16-1b;
(v) in pressing down a ball-marker;
(vi) in repairing old hole plugs or ball marks on the putting green – Rule 16-1c; and
(vii)in removing movable obstructions – Rule 24-1.


(Indicating line for putting on putting green – see Rule 8-2b)

And Rule 8-2b:

b. On the Putting Green
When the player’s ball is on the putting green, the player, his partner or
either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke, point out a
line for putting, but in so doing the putting green must not be touched.
A mark must not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.


In essence, you are not allowed to place your club on your line of putt except immediately in front of your ball when addressing it. Line of putt:

Line of Putt
The “line of putt’’ is the line that the player wishes his ball to take after
a stroke on the putting green. Except with respect to Rule 16-1e, the
line of putt includes a reasonable distance on either side of the
intended line.



Link to comment
Share on other sites




Originally Posted by Ignorant

In essence, you are not allowed to place your club on your line of putt except immediately in front of your ball when addressing it. Line of putt:

Line of PuttThe “line of putt’’ is the line that the player wishes his ball to take aftera stroke on the putting green. Except with respect to Rule 16-1e, theline of putt includes a reasonable distance on either side of theintended line.



i think this is the only relevant part.  im not touching the line that i wish the putt to take.  so from there, what is a "reasonable distance on either side of the intended line"?  6 inches?  can i put my putter 8 inches on either side of the line?  can i "straddle" the line with my feet on one side and the putter on the other?

Colin P.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades



Originally Posted by colin007

i think this is the only relevant part.  im not touching the line that i wish the putt to take.  so from there, what is a "reasonable distance on either side of the intended line"?  6 inches?  can i put my putter 8 inches on either side of the line?  can i "straddle" the line with my feet on one side and the putter on the other?


I think it depends on the putt and on your skill, and I suspect you'd better be conservative in your interpretation.  It's one of those cases where it's hard to give a better defintition, but you really need to be able to make a convincing case that you were comfortably off the intended line for it to fly.

In the bag:
FT-iQ 10° driver, FT 21° neutral 3H
T-Zoid Forged 15° 3W, MX-23 4-PW
Harmonized 52° GW, Tom Watson 56° SW, X-Forged Vintage 60° LW
White Hot XG #1 Putter, 33"

Link to comment
Share on other sites




Originally Posted by colin007

i think this is the only relevant part.  im not touching the line that i wish the putt to take.  so from there, what is a "reasonable distance on either side of the intended line"?  6 inches?  can i put my putter 8 inches on either side of the line?  can i "straddle" the line with my feet on one side and the putter on the other?



Remember that one of the reasons why line of putt may not be touched is that touching the line might leave a mark on the ground which a player might benefit from. This is why touching the green when indicating a line of putt is forbidden (R8-2). So be careful when touching the green close to your line of putt.

Why do you have to do that in the first place? Why isn't is enough just to imitate putting without touching the ground?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Originally Posted by Ignorant

Remember that one of the reasons why line of putt may not be touched is that touching the line might leave a mark on the ground which a player might benefit from. This is why touching the green when indicating a line of putt is forbidden (R8-2). So be careful when touching the green close to your line of putt.

Why do you have to do that in the first place? Why isn't is enough just to imitate putting without touching the ground?


I think it's to get a tactile feel for the slope of the ground.  Personally, I agree with your sentiment---while it's probably legal to touch the ground close to the line, it's such a grey area that I think it'd be better to train oneself to use a different method.  At the very least, I'd tell my playing partners exactly what I'm doing before doing this.  Even then, I can see it leading to disputes if you're playing with something on the line.  I also think the distance you'd need to be from the line to avoid controversy would be far enough that the benefit of this technique would be pretty small.

Actually, along the lines of Ignorant's suggestion, I do recall seeing pros walking along the line of their putt and pausing to take an "air putt" at a few locations.  I assume they're using the feel of their feet and body rather than touching the ground.  That seems a lot safer.

In the bag:
FT-iQ 10° driver, FT 21° neutral 3H
T-Zoid Forged 15° 3W, MX-23 4-PW
Harmonized 52° GW, Tom Watson 56° SW, X-Forged Vintage 60° LW
White Hot XG #1 Putter, 33"

Link to comment
Share on other sites




Originally Posted by colin007

i think this is the only relevant part.  im not touching the line that i wish the putt to take.  so from there, what is a "reasonable distance on either side of the intended line"?  6 inches?  can i put my putter 8 inches on either side of the line?  can i "straddle" the line with my feet on one side and the putter on the other?


If you did this, then realised that you'd mis-read the slope and that your line of putt with your new read meant that you had actually touched the line of your putt (or the point you touched now was within that reasonable distance of your line), you would then need to penalise yourself for touching the line of your putt.

Not a risk I'd take.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Very useful information, thanks!

Originally Posted by Ignorant

See Rule 16-1:

16-1. General

a.Touching Line of Putt

The line of putt must not be touched except:

(i) the player may remove loose impediments, provided he does not

press anything down;

(ii) the player may place the club in front of the ball when addressing

it, provided he does not press anything down;

(iii) in measuring – Rule 18-6;

(iv) in lifting or replacing the ball – Rule 16-1b;

(v) in pressing down a ball-marker;

(vi) in repairing old hole plugs or ball marks on the putting green – Rule 16-1c; and

(vii)in removing movable obstructions – Rule 24-1.

(Indicating line for putting on putting green – see Rule 8-2b)

And Rule 8-2b:

b. On the Putting Green

When the player’s ball is on the putting green, the player, his partner or

either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke, point out a

line for putting, but in so doing the putting green must not be touched.

A mark must not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.

In essence, you are not allowed to place your club on your line of putt except immediately in front of your ball when addressing it. Line of putt:

Line of Putt

The “line of putt’’ is the line that the player wishes his ball to take after

a stroke on the putting green. Except with respect to Rule 16-1e, the

line of putt includes a reasonable distance on either side of the

intended line.



Link to comment
Share on other sites


Is touching the line with your feet touching the line?

Russ - Student of the Moe Norman swing as taught by the pros at - http://moenormangolf.com

Titleist 910 D3 8.5* w/ Project X shaft/ Titleist 910F 15* w/ Project X shaft

Cobra Baffler 20* & 23* hybrids with Accra hybrid shafts

Mizuno MP-53 irons 5Iron-PW AeroTech i95 shafts stiff and soft stepped once/Mizuno MP T-11 50.6/56.10/MP T10 60*

Seemore PCB putter with SuperStroke 3.0

Srixon 2012 Z-Star yellow balls/ Iomic Sticky 2.3, X-Evolution grips/Titleist Lightweight Cart Bag---

extra/alternate clubs: Mizunos JPX-800 Pro 5-GW with Project X 5.0 soft-stepped shafts

Link to comment
Share on other sites


And while we're chatting about putting rules, does anyone know the logic or history of not being able to repair spike marks but being allowed to repair pitch marks? IMO, the spike mark rule should change.

Russ - Student of the Moe Norman swing as taught by the pros at - http://moenormangolf.com

Titleist 910 D3 8.5* w/ Project X shaft/ Titleist 910F 15* w/ Project X shaft

Cobra Baffler 20* & 23* hybrids with Accra hybrid shafts

Mizuno MP-53 irons 5Iron-PW AeroTech i95 shafts stiff and soft stepped once/Mizuno MP T-11 50.6/56.10/MP T10 60*

Seemore PCB putter with SuperStroke 3.0

Srixon 2012 Z-Star yellow balls/ Iomic Sticky 2.3, X-Evolution grips/Titleist Lightweight Cart Bag---

extra/alternate clubs: Mizunos JPX-800 Pro 5-GW with Project X 5.0 soft-stepped shafts

Link to comment
Share on other sites




Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyredcab View Post

Is touching the line with your feet touching the line?



Yes it is. And if done on purpose, or if the line improves, ends up wth penalty.

Quote:

Decision 16-1a/12 Player Walks on Line of Putt:

Q: A player walked on his line of putt. Did he incur a penalty for a breach of Rule 16-1a?

A: Yes, if he did so intentionally. No, if he did so accidentally and the act did not improve the line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

And while we're chatting about putting rules, does anyone know the logic or history of not being able to repair spike marks but being allowed to repair pitch marks? IMO, the spike mark rule should change.


I agree. The fear was that people could make a groove or something that'd keep their ball going to the hole, but I don't see that happening and you could word the rule in such a way that obvious attempts to do so would be punished. Probably would take less wording than it does now to explain what you can and can't fix.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

And while we're chatting about putting rules, does anyone know the logic or history of not being able to repair spike marks but being allowed to repair pitch marks? IMO, the spike mark rule should change.


I believe the reason is that while a pitch mark can be easily identified as such, a spike mark does not have such a consistent appearance.  Thus, it's relatively easy to allow pitch mark repair without giving an open pass to repair any imperfection in the green, whereas it would be harder to define what sort of a spike mark qualifies for repair.

In the bag:
FT-iQ 10° driver, FT 21° neutral 3H
T-Zoid Forged 15° 3W, MX-23 4-PW
Harmonized 52° GW, Tom Watson 56° SW, X-Forged Vintage 60° LW
White Hot XG #1 Putter, 33"

Link to comment
Share on other sites




Originally Posted by rustyredcab

And while we're chatting about putting rules, does anyone know the logic or history of not being able to repair spike marks but being allowed to repair pitch marks? IMO, the spike mark rule should change.



The prohibition has to do with a couple of things.  One is simply a time factor.  Repairing all of the spike marks between your ball and the hole on a 40 foot putt could take 10 minutes.  The other reason is simply identifying them.  Some are quite obvious, others not so - who makes the determination?  It's easy to make a decision between you and your playing companion as to the identity of a pitch mark, not so easy to do it for a dozen or more potential spike marks.  If you are going to be allowed to repair anything, then instead of golfers we would have gardeners.

Then too, a spike mark simply doesn't have the same impact on the roll of the ball as a pitch mark does.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I do recall seeing pros walking along the line of their putt and pausing to take an "air putt" at a few locations.  I assume they're using the feel of their feet and body rather than touching the ground.  That seems a lot safer.

Agreed. I see Web Simpson do this 'air putt' along the line. It is a solid tactic to feel the slope with your feet, and get an idea of how the ball would run along that line.

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades



Originally Posted by Fourputt

The prohibition has to do with a couple of things.  One is simply a time factor.  Repairing all of the spike marks between your ball and the hole on a 40 foot putt could take 10 minutes.  The other reason is simply identifying them.  Some are quite obvious, others not so - who makes the determination?  It's easy to make a decision between you and your playing companion as to the identity of a pitch mark, not so easy to do it for a dozen or more potential spike marks.  If you are going to be allowed to repair anything, then instead of golfers we would have gardeners.

Then too, a spike mark simply doesn't have the same impact on the roll of the ball as a pitch mark does.


And here I thought the prohibition against repairing spike marks was to enable players to have an excuse for missed putts.  Cf. Nicklaus' missed putt on the 12th hole in the final round of the '86 Masters.  LOL

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Okay, looks like everyone agrees that repairing a pitch mark in your line is permitted. What about an old pitch mark that wasn't repaired properly that has caused the grass to die and create a small crater?

Are we allowed to raise up this crater? I mean it is a pitch mark...sort of

Link to comment
Share on other sites




Originally Posted by scv76

Okay, looks like everyone agrees that repairing a pitch mark in your line is permitted. What about an old pitch mark that wasn't repaired properly that has caused the grass to die and create a small crater?

Are we allowed to raise up this crater? I mean it is a pitch mark...sort of



Yes, you are allowed to repair it, but you don't raise it up to repair it.  That just kills the roots and takes even longer to grow back.  You press from the edges in toward the center to fill in the depression.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 4512 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...