Jump to content
IGNORED

If no advantage was gained and the rule breach was unintentional, why enforce the rule?


Pete
Note: This thread is 4556 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

I know all the rules in question here but just wanted to know your thoughts on this rule generally.

In a club comp, my competitors 9 year old son who was caddying for his dad, was tending the flag on one of my putts. He totally forgot to remove the flagstick from the hole and my ball trickled into the hole.

I know it is my 2 stroke penalty but would any of you called that penalty if it was your caddy who forgot? Also, would you want other players in the comp penalised for the same  thing or are you like me in that if no advantage was gained and the breach was unintentional, then enforcing the rule is pointless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I would think if a 9 year old was even on the course, the competition wasnt all that important.  In casual competition or even minor tournaments, there are occasions where certain rules arent followed to the letter.

In this case, I would not sign the scorecard, explain the situation to the club pro, and allow him to make the final decision, and be prepared to be assessed a 2 stroke penalty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites




Originally Posted by RFetters

I would think if a 9 year old was even on the course, the competition wasnt all that important.  In casual competition or even minor tournaments, there are occasions where certain rules arent followed to the letter.

In this case, I would not sign the scorecard, explain the situation to the club pro, and allow him to make the final decision, and be prepared to be assessed a 2 stroke penalty.



+1

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I guess some things are more important than whether the rule caused harm or not.  The first question was "who is to say?"is the correct one.  What if someone following this foursome did the same thing and ended up winning the tournament?  Would that be OK with the OP?  Just a a last question, what is the harm for the 9 year old to learn that it is OK to break the rules as long as I don't think there is any real harm done in doing so?

Butch

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Some great points made thanks

Would you call the penalty on an opponent?

I guess I'm struggling to see how rules applications like this help to differentiate who played better on the day?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades



Originally Posted by Pete

Some great points made thanks

Would you call the penalty on an opponent?

I guess I'm struggling to see how rules applications like this help to differentiate who played better on the day?



First of all, it isn't who played better, it's who played better following the rules.  If you have a 9 year old caddying, then he still needs to know what he's doing if he is going to participate in that capacity.  I don't blame the boy, as it's unreasonable to expect the typical kid that age to know the rules.  But if there is any doubt, then he shouldn't be attending the flagstick in the first place.  If he is allowed to do so, then his player is responsibility for any penalties the boy incurs.  The rules don't distinguish qualifications by age, nor do they allow for waiving a rule due to ignorance.

Take the penalty with a smile and help the youngster learn how to play the game correctly.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I don't feel you're under a moral obligation to follow every rule just because you're hitting a golf ball with a golf club on a golf course.  If you want to play loosely and only bother with penalties when they're judged significant, that's fine.  In match play or when everyone involved in a "competition" is in the same group, it can work --- you just have a discussion and decide how to apply the rules in a way that everyone's happy with.

As soon as it's bigger than this, though, I think it's essential that the rules be clearly defined and uniformly applied.  (They don't have to be the Rules of Golf necessarily, but realistically probably should be, possibly with custom modifications if the group sees the need.)  It's not practical to let every affected party judge the case because only a few of them were there to observe the facts.  While there are rules that can be ambiguous or difficult to apply, this isn't one of them.

So I'm on board with the above.  Chalk it up as a learning experience, let the kid know he made an error, but don't make a big deal out of it.  He'll learn something.  If you do want to do something, the above suggestion to discuss with the organizers/rules committee is a good one.  That way a single, unbiased party can make the call, rather than individual groups applying the rules in a varied manner.

In the bag:
FT-iQ 10° driver, FT 21° neutral 3H
T-Zoid Forged 15° 3W, MX-23 4-PW
Harmonized 52° GW, Tom Watson 56° SW, X-Forged Vintage 60° LW
White Hot XG #1 Putter, 33"

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note: This thread is 4556 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Posts

    • I was playing around with MyStrategy on Shot Scope to figure some things out for Saturday and I figure I might as well share it. Neshanic Valley Ridge #2 I never quite know how I want to approach this hole. On Sunday I went with the conservative option and hit 4i off the tee and into the penalty area. It's basically the shot I marked in red. I was second guessing the shot at the time and based on the wind conditions it looks like I was right. I'm not expecting it to be as windy on Saturday but it's something I need to consider. Even without the wind though the 4i puts the bunker into play. I might end up hitting something like 6i short of the bunker. It still leaves me with less than 150y for my second shot. Side note: I kind of wish the shots plotted would move when you add wind, but they don't. Only the cone changes. Ridge #5 Ugh this hole is rough. I hit the shot in green on Sunday. It looks like I probably shouldn't hit driver on this hole. Here's what it looks like with 4w: It looks safer. Ignore the random shots I topped from earlier in the year. Or maybe not, I don't know. It's not like I can't top my driver, too. Now would be a good time to mention that the rough here isn't just rough. Most of the areas between holes are fescue and even during the early Spring it can be hard to just find the ball. I'm mostly concerned about not flaring it right and the 4w tends to draw. The dispersion tendency on my driver is actually slightly right of center and slightly left with the 4w. This might be more of a game time decision but I'm more comfortable with the 4w sitting here at my computer. Meadow #2 This one I hit into the penalty area (shot marked in red). It was an awful lie and I should have just taken lateral relief but I tried to play it out into the fairway, only hit it like 10 yards and it stayed in the penalty area so it took a second try to get back on the fairway. Lesson learned. Later in the round I played out of the penalty area and had a much better lie so I was able to put it on for GIR. I really need to learn to evaluate risk/reward better because there isn't a lie I'm convinced I can't hit out of and that can be problematic. But anyway the point was to highlight the tee shot. I think the decision to play 4i was fine, actually. I just pulled it slightly and it caught the slope off the back of the bunker and kicked into shit. I should probably just shift the target line slightly further right. I'll probably play around with this thing some more for the Lake nine in case I end up playing that. Lake is honestly my least favorite of the three as a whole but has my favorite finishing hole on the course. It's a weird collection of long holes and short holes that just kind of sets up really awkwardly for me.
    • No, I agree it isn't an irrelevant tradition. We will see how it goes in the future. I would stick with woods and irons. Irons are an interesting example though, having kept their name even though these clubs haven't been made of iron for at least a century.
    • I've been Playing Golf for: 20 years, about 3 years more seriously with some lessons My current handicap index or average score is: 20.7 My typical ball flight is: Small Fade The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: Big slice with the driver Videos:  This is a swing from a lesson in August:   I tried recording a couple swings on the range today, but I didn't realize until I got home that the tripod was pointed too low. Most of my upper body was cut off, and the video is not very useful. I'll try and get a better recording the next time I'm on the range. 
    • Now that I have taken getting better seriously, golf is hard. I meet with an instructor about every three weeks now, and I'm on the course in some capacity every day practicing or playing or both. I usually get in a minimum of 9 a day. I'm only slowly seeing positive results on a regular basis. I'm leaning towards this guy not ever beating the 3. Unless he dedicates his life to getting better I dont know. Maybe. One thing working against me is I've been playing forever without formal instruction until a few sessions last year with an instructor and now. It takes a good while to get something ingrained in you for it to work every time.  I'm rambling, so yeah, scratch my earlier vote and I'll go with the 3 with an *
    • So according to the above paragraph, you hit the driver between 179-280 yards. I am no instructor but one thing I would take a look at is where are you hitting the ball on the clubface. Foot powder spray is good for this. Also, what flex shaft are you playing in the driver? To weak of a shaft for your swing speed can cause problems. A fitter/ instructor can help you there. Aside from just a faulty swing, those are a couple of things that could play into your shotgun blast of drives. I speak from experience.  
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...