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Road to becoming a professional golfer - Page 6

post #91 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pope33 View Post

I think you can do it man! Having a dream and chasing it is an awesome thing. Yes, you know the odds are against you, but you won't really know until you try. Just the same reason I play the Powerball, cause if I don't, I will never know. Hell, I got 2 numbers right last night.......getting closer!!!!



If you work really hard and are really determined you CAN win Powerball.  g2_eek.gif

post #92 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post



If you work really hard and are really determined you CAN win Powerball.  g2_eek.gif

Especially if you REALLY, REALLY want it!
 

 

post #93 of 224

ATTENTION: LONG POST!

 

I was thinking quite some time about posting something to this thread, but now I decided to do it.

 

Short Version:

@Travis: GO FOR IT!

If you have the financial means to give it a try, and don't bring other people (i.e. a family) into trouble, do it!!!

Don't listen to the nay-sayers, because they cannot understand, how something is possible, that they didn't manage to do.

 

Long Version:

Some background story first.

During my childhood (35 years ago) I grew up like a regular boy, doing all kinds of sports, most of it, playing a lot of football (soccer, for the u.s.).

Since it's most common to play in junior leagues, my parents let me play there, and I got used to do things competitively.

At age 14, I tried Volleyball for the first time, and was hooked. 1 or 2 years later, my dream was to play internationally, have a jersey with my name on it and make it to Austria's national team.

Let me tell you, that at this time I was about 165cm in height, so these weren't the perfect athletic abilities, to say the least.

So I concentrated a lot on technique and strategy. Of course I worked out in the gym to maximise my jumping strength, to be able to compete.

At age 17 I already played in my hometown's men's team in Austria's 2nd league.

When I turned 20, a club of the first league wanted to trade me to them, and our team's manager at that time asked me, "Don't you overestimate your potential, my friend?" (sounds familiar, Travis?)

 

I grabbed the chance and never looked back.

I played semi-professional (more wasn't possible at that time in Austria) Volleyball for the next 15 years - I didn't grow higher than 180cm BTW, but I managed to jump 90cm in my best times (reaching 2m24cm while standing, and 3m14cm with a jump).

Even after university, when I got a job, I managed to attend training 5 times a week and play the matches at the weekends.

Now, I have a jersey with my name on it on a wall at my house, I played at a EuropeanClubChampionships (CEV-Cup) tournament in Spain and even got a call for the national team for one time.

 

Yes, I trained _a_lot_. And yes, I think I had some phyiscal abilities that helped me to get to that jumping strength I had.

But this was only to compensate for my low height.

What really kept me inside our country's top players were my technique and strategy - and that's something not given or you're born with it. That are things you can learn.

 

But it is even as important to get mentally involved in what you are doing.

 

I didn't just listened what my trainers told me - I watched videos of the best volleyball setters to see, what they were doing different than me and try to adapt.

Think about, what were my best tactical options in different situations, and so on. Read as many books and articles I could find and pick out the things that were valuable to me.

I ate, drank and dreamed Volleyball as long as I can remember.

I always wanted to understand, _HOW_ something is working, and _WHY_.

 

And I think, that's what is meant, when I read about "deliberate practise".

It's not only the amount of time put into something, but the mental intensity you're doing it. I think 30 minutes of deliberate practice (understanding _what_ , _why_ and _how_ you are doing something) are much more effective than being on the range for 2 hours, without even thinking what you are doing.

 

What I had, was determination.

I didn't go out long the night before a game, never drank too much and tried to stay healthy.

My friends would always tease me, "Come on, 4 or 5 beers more can't be that bad", or "You are going home _NOW_? It's just starting to get funny!" and so on.

 

I read paper tiger last year and after some pages, to me it was clear, he wouldn't make it. There's one situation, where he comes to Florida and sees all those players at the range and the first thing that comes to his mind is something like "I wish I would be as good as them" and he's freezing with respect.

That's not the attitude to get good at something, least getting to beat someone. If you don't think, you can win, you won't - and that was where his fate was determined IMHO.

I think, most of the guys, not making it on tour don't have worse golfing abilities than the others, technical wise.

To me, it looks like the difference is the competitiveness of the better guys.

 

Nobody fell out of the sky being an expert in something.

 

Once again, Travis - go for it and keep us updated, how it goes!!

I won't say, you will make it, and I won't say you won't make it.

All I can say is, get involved in the things you have to do to reach your goals and give everything you have - this way you will know, that you did your best!

 

greetings

michi

post #94 of 224

You were also 14 when you started vollyeball.  When did you last hear of someone picking up the game in their mid 20s or go from a 15 handicap in their 20s and making it on tour.  Zero....

post #95 of 224

Tomorrow I'm gonna go grab a tennis ball and a racquet. I'm gonna practice for hours on end. In five years when I'm 23, I'm gonna be playing Roger Federer for the US Open Tennis title. Wish me luck! Anythings possible!

post #96 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by mihi4 View Post

At age 14, I tried Volleyball for the first time, and was hooked. 1 or 2 years later, my dream was to play internationally, have a jersey with my name on it and make it to Austria's national team.

 

I grabbed the chance and never looked back.

I played semi-professional (more wasn't possible at that time in Austria) Volleyball for the next 15 years -

This is a good story.  You obviously played volleyball to your full potential.  For that you are to be congratulated. However, even you have to admit that the upper tier of international volleyball was beyond your reach. For whatever reason, you didn't make it to your nation's Olympic team (unless I'm reading it wrong).

 

No doubt, good old Travis could get much better at golf, and I think we all hope he will put forth the effort required to do it.  He might even get to the level of playing in serious tournaments. But to think he could advance to the level of the PGA tour at this point in his life is ludicrous.

post #97 of 224

The reality of the situation is that it would be a solid achievement for Travis to get to a single figure handicap within five years.Any talk about professional golf is ridiculous.

Travis is no more passionate about golf than most people here. Let's move on. 

post #98 of 224


Nah you just need to buy tickets for 10k hours straight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty View Post

Especially if you REALLY, REALLY want it!
 

 



 

post #99 of 224

I think the problem with Paper Tiger is that his goal wasn't to be a pro golfer. It was to write a book (which I enjoyed).  A guy with the goal of being a pro would say I have gone from a 12 to a +1, in year. I have a couple weakness that I can fix. Next year I am getting to +3, and the one after +5. He wouldn't give up until he spent a couple years not getting better. I also though he came across as too obsessed with the long ball.  For every 340 yard drive there was a shank OB.  Dial it back until you can control is course management 101. There seemed to be a mismatch between his handicap and performance during tournaments.  Maybe the courses were that much harder (I doubt that is true for an PGA aptitude test) but I think he didn't handle the pressure well. Probably just needed another dozen or so tournaments to get comfortable.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mihi4 View Post

I read paper tiger last year and after some pages, to me it was clear, he wouldn't make it. There's one situation, where he comes to Florida and sees all those players at the range and the first thing that comes to his mind is something like "I wish I would be as good as them" and he's freezing with respect.

That's not the attitude to get good at something, least getting to beat someone. If you don't think, you can win, you won't - and that was where his fate was determined IMHO.

I think, most of the guys, not making it on tour don't have worse golfing abilities than the others, technical wise.

To me, it looks like the difference is the competitiveness of the better guys.

 

 



 

post #100 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSportsGuy View Post

Tomorrow I'm gonna go grab a tennis ball and a racquet. I'm gonna practice for hours on end. In five years when I'm 23, I'm gonna be playing Roger Federer for the US Open Tennis title. Wish me luck! Anythings possible!



Not sure where you are in the current world rankings, but if Roger is playing in a US Open singles final in 5 years I'll eat tennis balls live on TV.

post #101 of 224

It depends alot on fitness I think, and past hand-eye sports.  I know a guy who played on the Clemson college tennis team and nearly went pro as a tennis player; he went from picking up the game to a good player in like 3 months.  I played college tennis at a decently high level and started playing golf around christmas 2010 and I shoot in the high 70s, low 80s now (About 8 months).  I practice most weeks 6 days a week, so if you are already an athlete rapid advancement is possible... of course, I've been training for 10 years to hit a serve 130 mph, so hitting a drive isn't all that much of a stretch for me.  But PGA Touring pro? Thats tougher.  What is your background like?  Have you ever played any sport at a top level (college, high school, etc...) - its much easier to deal with the pressure if you've done it before, even if in another sport.

 

EDIT: I wanted to add that through grade school and high school I flirted with the thought of being a pro tennis player.  I had a tennis court at my house growing up and I attended the Bolleitieri academy.  I played all the time, pretty much every day, and had access to the top instructors.  I did this for about 10 years then went to college and played tennis.  I didn't crack the top 150 college tennis players, nevermind top 150 professional tennis players.  It is insanely hard, even for those who work all the time, to do.  I thought I was good because I was the best player on my college team and the best player I knew.  I wasn't anything compared to the pros.  I played Roddick in the first round of a tournament and lost 8-0 (played pro sets at that level).  I played a guy who placed second in the Junior Austrailian Open that year and got crushed 8-1.  Know where that guy is now?  Ranked about 300 in the world, barely making it as a pro, playing backwater tours and events.  That guy was awesome, and he couldn't make it.  I don't know how hard the golf tour is, but if its like the tennis tour, you are setting yourself up for huge disappointment.  I tried for about a decade and didn't even come close.

 

You don't just need to be the best player you know.  You need to be the best player in your State, at the very least.  The general rule in tennis is that if you can play, and beat, a 6.5 player (one step short of professional) without serving - that is, you can break a 6.5 to win a match - you should start thinking about going pro, but not until. I don't know if there is a similar rule in golf.


Edited by johnclayton1982 - 11/4/11 at 11:36am
post #102 of 224

I have some seriously mixed feeling about this thread.

 

The way most of you go on, nobody should even bother trying to go pro. I'm not only limiting this to Travis, I realise odds are against him being 25 yada yada but anyway, moving on.

I've read Agassi's book twice. When he was an up and comer and actually later than that, when he was starting to make a stir, Sampras was around. And according to Agassi, Sampras was a total hacker who Agassi and his brother took pity on as they believed someone had wrecked his technique and chances at ever making it.

 

And Sampras got all shades of good later on.

 

I can't argue with stats. Such a small percentage make it pro. But the truth is this, anyone can be in that 1%. It's like winning the lotto. Everything thinks, its never gonna be me, but it is. It's somebody. There are pro's out there with some of the dodgiest techniques I've ever seen. One look at those guys back in the day and people would have written them off.

 

To me, this proves your technique has got jack all to do with it. If you can build a swing that works for you, that is consistent and that YOU know how to work with, you've got a real platform.

 

it's the mental that separates people in my opinion. That pressure and that mental requirement can break anyone.

 

If you have the financial capabilities to pursue this thing and you've been gifted with a decent athletic body and you've got passion and serious determination, then you can turn pro. I don't care what anyone says. You can turn pro in your mid 30's. When mayfair got his tour card back at his ripe old age, how is that different as if he was getting it for the first time at that age? Yeah he had past experience and the mental game and what not, but so what. Anyone with the right facilities and positive outlook can overcome that.

 

I also think that self-belief is a massive factor. Massive. Some people have the unreal self-believe, like they don't even know how to lose/fail. That's a frikken winning ingredient right there.

 

The possibility of going pro is there for anybody and everybody to chase. Obviously everyone's not going to make it, but the factors that separate the winners from the losers, are all controllable and manipulated by you.

 

 

post #103 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvanwyk View Post

 Obviously everyone's not going to make it, but the factors that separate the winners from the losers, are all controllable and manipulated by you.

 



I couldn't disagree more. 

 

post #104 of 224

How? The cosmos doesn't choose who's going to make it or not. And I'm not saying anyone can make it. I listed athletic ability etc etc etc.

So how are the other factors involved not under your influence??

post #105 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvanwyk View Post

How? The cosmos doesn't choose who's going to make it or not. And I'm not saying anyone can make it. I listed athletic ability etc etc etc.

So how are the other factors involved not under your influence??



I'm with you, rossvanwyk.

 

The easy part is learning to hit the ball well. The hard part is to hit the ball well during a pro tournament. Pressure does horrible things to a person's golf swing. This isn't tennis where an opponent is smashing balls at you or football where how you react depends on what the opposition is doing. EVERYTHING in golf is under your control. You almost have too much time to think about what you are doing. Nobody can influence your shot. But what happens as you get better and play in bigger tournaments, is you start to realise you are not as good as the other players and that wears you down mentally. You cannot fool yourself, you know if you are good enough or not.

 

Also, you don't have to be an athletic freak to be good at golf. A lot of the times, the type of person that falls into golf is the 'weed' unable to make it on the basketball, baseball or football teams. This is the reason we've heard of players like Corey Pavin, to name one.

 

 

 

post #106 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvanwyk View Post

 

I can't argue with stats. Such a small percentage make it pro. But the truth is this, anyone can be in that 1%. 



Problem is, it's more like 1 in a million, not one in a hundred.

There are obviously club pros and teaching pros as well.

If you have a look at the money lists and world rankings it's a real eye opener.

If all of the players in the top 1000 had ambitions to be a successful pro - and they are all good enough - perhaps less than 5 percent of them will succeed long term.

There are over 1400 players in the WGR of those, maybe a couple of hundred make a decent living from golf.  Many make the wages of a labourer. And it's not guaranteed money.

If you saw any of the guys ranked in the 1200 or 1300s you'd be awe-struck by the quality of their golf.

Even if someone is good enough to become a pro, it's a bit like getting into a famous university or the degree course of your choice. Thats the easy bit. Then the real work starts.

I know several golf pros who are now cleaners and delivery truck drivers.

To suggest that it all comes down to dedication and desire is just plain silly.

post #107 of 224

You mean the Pete Sampras who went Pro at 16 and was in the top 100 in the world? Seems like his talent was pretty evident early.

 

We aren't talking about being in the top 1%. That gets you top 5 at your local country club. We are talking about .001% and I may have left off a zero.  At the lower levels you can out work people and make up for lack of talent with hard work. At the top that isn't true.  

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvanwyk View Post

I have some seriously mixed feeling about this thread.

 

The way most of you go on, nobody should even bother trying to go pro. I'm not only limiting this to Travis, I realise odds are against him being 25 yada yada but anyway, moving on.

I've read Agassi's book twice. When he was an up and comer and actually later than that, when he was starting to make a stir, Sampras was around. And according to Agassi, Sampras was a total hacker who Agassi and his brother took pity on as they believed someone had wrecked his technique and chances at ever making it.

 

And Sampras got all shades of good later on.

 

I can't argue with stats. Such a small percentage make it pro. But the truth is this, anyone can be in that 1%. It's like winning the lotto. Everything thinks, its never gonna be me, but it is. It's somebody. There are pro's out there with some of the dodgiest techniques I've ever seen. One look at those guys back in the day and people would have written them off.

 

To me, this proves your technique has got jack all to do with it. If you can build a swing that works for you, that is consistent and that YOU know how to work with, you've got a real platform.

 

it's the mental that separates people in my opinion. That pressure and that mental requirement can break anyone.

 

If you have the financial capabilities to pursue this thing and you've been gifted with a decent athletic body and you've got passion and serious determination, then you can turn pro. I don't care what anyone says. You can turn pro in your mid 30's. When mayfair got his tour card back at his ripe old age, how is that different as if he was getting it for the first time at that age? Yeah he had past experience and the mental game and what not, but so what. Anyone with the right facilities and positive outlook can overcome that.

 

I also think that self-belief is a massive factor. Massive. Some people have the unreal self-believe, like they don't even know how to lose/fail. That's a frikken winning ingredient right there.

 

The possibility of going pro is there for anybody and everybody to chase. Obviously everyone's not going to make it, but the factors that separate the winners from the losers, are all controllable and manipulated by you.

 

 



 

post #108 of 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossvanwyk View Post

But the truth is this, anyone can be in that 1%...

 

[15 minutes later:] ...I'm not saying anyone can make it.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by rossvanwyk View Post

 

It's like winning the lotto...


[15 minutes later:] The cosmos doesn't choose who's going to make it or not.

 

You're saying entirely different things in your 2 posts. Your second post was the correct one: *Not* everyone can make it, because it requires more than just the things that are under your control - it also requires some natural ability. And it *isn't* like winning the lotto, because the lotto is determined 100% by chance (or the "cosmos" if that's how you want to put it) - whereas being one of the top 300 golfers in the world (which is a lot fewer than 1%, as Shorty pointed out) is going to take some of that pesky natural ability that you seem to be forgetting about.

 

Look, as unpopular as this fact may be, not everyone is born with the same potential to be in the top 300 in the world at *anything*, much less for any particular single area they might happen to choose.

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