My Swing (Poser)

**poser** · November 7, 2011

So last June I had back surgery and coming back to the game was a difficult task. I decided I need to work on my swing to start taking pressure off my back. I started to experiment with alot of different swing methods and around August my swing had gotten really bad and I decided to start working with a local young pro here in town. I figured I would start a thread to track my progess. I have always battled a really shut face and getting under plane. Since surgery I have also developed a good case of early extension which I hate but, I guess that comes with the lack of flexibility.

Here is the swing I went to him with in August this year.

Here is my latest from yesterday.

Face on

DTL

My shoulders have always did that weird steepness thing were my left shoulder gets real high. The face is starting to look alot better though so I'm excited about that. I'm kind of scared right now to work on the early extension because my back hasn't been hurting and I'm scared trying to fix it will jack me up.

PS.. Yes I had surgery at my young age. Guess the military wasn't so good on my body.

**The_Pharaoh** · November 7, 2011

Great looking swing, poser! You can tell you've put a lot of hard work into your swing since August. Particularly taking into account your back problems. Is your pro S&T;? I hope to be as far down the line as you in 3 months time.

I'll leave the detailed analysis to Mike/Erik, but from what I can they are going to tell you your hands still need to go in more and you are still lifting your arms to the top.

**poser** · November 7, 2011

No he isn't stack and tilt he has a TGM background and doesn't really teach a method. We were talking about the arm lifting issue yesterday one thing I'm still trying to work along with alot of other things. This was an earlier swing in the day and the camera died but, towards the end I was trying to not extend at the top so much that causes the arm lift. All a work in progress. Thanks for the comments Pharaoh. I appreciate the white lie about my swing looking great

**sean_miller** · November 7, 2011

Originally Posted by poser

So last June I had back surgery and coming back to the game was a difficult task. I decided I need to work on my swing to start taking pressure off my back. I started to experiment with alot of different swing methods and around August my swing had gotten really bad and I decided to start working with a local young pro here in town. I figured I would start a thread to track my progess. I have always battled a really shut face and getting under plane. Since surgery I have also developed a good case of early extension which I hate but, I guess that comes with the lack of flexibility.

Here is the swing I went to him with in August this year.

http://youtu.be/gsDIL7gZ-64

Here is my latest from yesterday.

Face on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hCzFwELxPI&feature;=youtu.be

DTL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTJd9mOfX5g&feature;=youtu.be

My shoulders have always did that weird steepness thing were my left shoulder gets real high. The face is starting to look alot better though so I'm excited about that. I'm kind of scared right now to work on the early extension because my back hasn't been hurting and I'm scared trying to fix it will jack me up.

PS.. Yes I had surgery at my young age. Guess the military wasn't so good on my body.

It's good your instructor doesn't ascribe to a "method" because your swing is fantastic. I can see the left shoulder thing though. My instructor asks(ed) me to think about driving my left shoulder down into the ground to start off. I can't say I ever really got there, but it was a good feeling.

Don't mess with your high hands bud - looks like you actually generate some power unlike most of the guys posting "my swing" threads on here. Kudos!

**The_Pharaoh** · November 7, 2011

Originally Posted by poser

No he isn't stack and tilt he has a TGM background and doesn't really teach a method. We were talking about the arm lifting issue yesterday one thing I'm still trying to work along with alot of other things. This was an earlier swing in the day and the camera died but, towards the end I was trying to not extend at the top so much that causes the arm lift. All a work in progress. Thanks for the comments Pharaoh. I appreciate the white lie about my swing looking great

It wasn't a white lie, I like your swing! ;-) It's looks very S&T;, that's why I asked if your pro was S&T.; Do TGM pros teach a similar looking swing to S&T;?

Getting the hands in more will help with the not lifting the arms. I'm working on this right now...

**The_Pharaoh** · November 7, 2011

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Don't mess with your high hands bud - looks like you actually generate some power unlike most of the guys posting "my swing" threads on here. Kudos!

He's a 1 handicapper, I hope he's generating some power! Are you not a S&T; fan? Not criticizing, just wondering...

**sean_miller** · November 7, 2011

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Don't mess with your high hands bud - looks like you actually generate some power unlike most of the guys posting "my swing" threads on here. Kudos!

He's a 1 handicapper, I hope he's generating some power! Are you not a S&T; fan? Not criticizing, just wondering...

Give someone S&T; tips who's currently seeing a not specifically S&T; instructor who claims to not be teaching S&T; if you must, but not every player who's a member of thesandtrap is either secretly working toward an S&T; swing or secretly working agains an S&T; swing (whatever that would be?!?). There, did I mention S&T; enough so that now we can move on? I was referring specifically to his top of the swing hand position (P whatever) and that they look to be in a natural position and are one element to that leads to a powerful strike through the ball.

The OP has a fantastic swing, but a forum posted index is indicative of nothing. Based on other guys posting low indexes on this forum, no, there is no assumption of generating power until it has been demostrated / proven. The vast majority of posters on this forum have never actually posted a swing thread and subsequently fewer still are low cappers. For example, a single swing at extreme slow motion with supporting text expounding all the things they're working on and all the things they're "feeling" in that one swing tells very little about how that player approaches a shot on the course and how they actually set up then strike the ball toward the target. Maybe it's just me, but the OP looks like he swings with some pop, and I'd be glad to see a couple in real time to get a sense of his tempo.

end hijack\

**The_Pharaoh** · November 7, 2011

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Give someone S&T; tips who's currently seeing a non-S&T; instructor if you must, but not every player who's a member of thesandtrap is either secretly working toward an S&T; swing or secretly working toward the opposite of an S&T; swing, whatever that is?!?

First, I didn't know if the OP's pro was S&T; or whatever. That's why I asked. Second, the OP obviously isn't as against S&T; as you are as he has posted his swing on a very pro-S&T; website. He is basically asking Mike and/or Erik to give him feedback. That's why I found it strange you piping up telling him not to do what Mike and/or Erik are going to tell him to do. You obviously have your reasons for doing so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

There, did I mention S&T; enough so that now we can move on?

You can move on if you like, I am here to learn as much as possible about S&T.;

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

The OP has a fantastic swing

I agree, and told him so. But I think the OP would be the first to say it isn't perfect and can be improved.

**poser** · November 7, 2011

I don't prescribe to any real swing method but, I do find pieces from each that I like to use. I'm sure S&T; has influenced things I do but, I'm not trying to model my swing exactly like stack and tilt or any for that matter. I appreciate the comments guy and love hearing feedback from all different points of view. I love hearing peoples opinions and views on my swing and how they would like to see improvements even if I do or don't agree it's always a learning process.

As for the low handicap thing it's going up since working on my swing if that makes anyone feel better. I think I'll be a 2 or 3 too before long

**sean_miller** · November 7, 2011

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Give someone S&T; tips who's currently seeing a non-S&T; instructor if you must, but not every player who's a member of thesandtrap is either secretly working toward an S&T; swing or secretly working toward the opposite of an S&T; swing, whatever that is?!?

First, I didn't know if the OP's pro was S&T; or whatever. That's why I asked. Second, the OP obviously isn't as against S&T; as you are as he has posted his swing on a very pro-S&T; website. He is basically asking Mike and/or Erik to give him feedback. That's why I found it strange you piping up telling him not to do what Mike and/or Erik are going to tell him to do. You obviously have your reasons for doing so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

There, did I mention S&T; enough so that now we can move on?

You can move on if you like, I am here to learn as much as possible about S&T.;

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

The OP has a fantastic swing

I agree, and told him so. But I think the OP would be the first to say it isn't perfect and can be improved.

HAHA - nailed it!!

And to the OP - good luck and good times!!

**The_Pharaoh** · November 7, 2011

Originally Posted by sean_miller

HAHA - nailed it!!

Hopefully, Erik will remove this pathetic little exchange as Poser doesn't deserve this on his swing thread.

**sean_miller** · November 7, 2011

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

HAHA - nailed it!!

Hopefully, Erik will remove this pathetic little exchange as Poser doesn't deserve this on his swing thread.

I agree. Your bias against people at the Sandtrap who are not currently striving toward the perfect S&T; swing and my obvious disdain for that attitude are not in any way helpful to the OP.

**poser** · November 7, 2011

Lol doesn't hurt my feelings at all. Nothing like a little controversy in the morning

**The_Pharaoh** · November 7, 2011

Originally Posted by poser

Lol doesn't hurt my feelings at all. Nothing like a little controversy in the morning

Good, that's the main thing. I just took a look at his swing thread and by the looks of it, shouldn't be so quick to dismiss S&T;!

***iacas*** · November 7, 2011

Zzzzzzzzz.

Guys, I don't even really teach "S&T;" anymore. What is S&T;? How do you define it? Look at the "Rory vs. Charlie" thread from the other day. Is Rory S&T;? Everyone is to some degree. S&T; is, in some ways, a one-plane swing with a centered pivot. That's about it. A lot of people swing that way.

We teach people that lift their arms up. If they don't throw their arms out off their chest from the top, we don't really care. It's a low priority thing that we may never even get to. And I object to the use of the term "method." If a "method" means having a plan, then you bet we teach a "method." If a "method" means getting everyone to swing the same, uh, you'd be hard pressed to find two students of ours who look the same. Troy Matteson doesn't look like Bill Lunde doesn't look like Grant Waite doesn't look like Charlie Wi doesn't look like Justin Rose (oops) doesn't look like Dean Wilson etc. etc. etc.

As to the actual topic - the clubface isn't closed much at all. You could cup your left wrist slightly if you wanted, but the downswing is fine. I do worry a bit about the rate of closure but if it's well after impact then it's less of a concern. If it starts creeping up earlier in your swing, though, I'd work on not rolling the forearms quite so much.

You've got a good swing. Very little needed, obviously.

**michaeljames92** · November 7, 2011

Nice swing man. Not much wrong with that.

**mvmac** · November 8, 2011

Spencer knows his stuff. He went to Campbell University and interned under David Orr [VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMGbbXiTHLQ&feature;=related[/VIDEO] Hits it good too, he's TGM with a tendency towards MORAD (Mac O'Grady). Spencer knows the S&T; pattern. [VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pln4lFbVCdA&feature;=related[/VIDEO] Here is Andy Plummer's take: "‎The Golfing Machine applies science to playing golf. it also begins to classify the components of a golf swing so that they can be categorized into a measureable, workable swing model. Morad is an investigation of how the body conforms to the geometery required to hit a ball. it builds upon the geometery and the taxonomy laided out in the golfing machine. Stack and Tilt helps the golfer sort through volumes of information to recognize the order and identity of the components so that they are usable to all levels off golfers. In sorting through the components of TGM, through the Morad lens, the Stack and Tilt stroke pattern is dramtically different than the golfing machine model in chapter 12 even though they operate under the same assumptions. Every other golf book I have seen is so abstract, they are non functional when trying to transfer information from one to another because they do not have a system to record all of the details of the swing accurately. " S&T; uses a lot of TGM terminology and classification. Mac learned from Homer Kelly, author of the Golfing Machine, did his own research and came up with his own patterns, measurements and classifications. Andy and Mike spent years under Mac and then went their own way with S&T.; Golf Evolution has roots in all three and we're adding to the information that has preceded us. Ok back ON TOPIC :-D I like your swing Poser. I agree with Erik, watch the forearm rotation, I'd say to maintain pressure points #4 and 5. To combat the early extension, I think working on a lower exit is a good idea. Left shoulder will feel like it stays lower as you turn the corner. Maintain PP#5, right arm connection. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/182584/width/640/height/378][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/182584/width/640/height/378[/IMG][/URL]

**poser** · November 8, 2011

Thanks MVMAC Spencer does know his stuff very well and has been a pleasure to work with. He has told me the same things about trying to paddle wheel the right forearm and keep the left shoulder down. Seems those changes have been very very hard for me to make. I'll keep working on it. As for the pressure points that something I haven't thought about fixing the early extension. I'll have to give it a try.

Thanks again for the comments.

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