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My Swing (Ernest Jones) - Page 20

post #343 of 1003
Thread Starter 

Total reboot here. Very short swing, just trying to eliminate that weird looping motion I had developed. Would like to get my arms a little higher but I look on-plane at least and no more crappy, tilty, shoulder loopy stuff. Definitely hitting it off the toe but I'll worry about that later.

 

 

@iacas or @mvmac - would a video like this with no FO be worth sending in for analysis? 

post #344 of 1003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

@iacas or @mvmac - would a video like this with no FO be worth sending in for analysis? 

 

Yes. But I might submit two - the shorter one and a longer one.

 

Notice that the shaft stays a little steep even on this downswing with the abbreviated backswing. Clubhead is quite closed as well. You can see at 0:11 to 0:12 or so that your left forearm rolls just a little clockwise from the camera's perspective, steepening the shaft just a teeny bit. If anything, it should "lay down" a little bit.

post #345 of 1003

I like what Erik said, submit two dtl videos.  Looks like you're working on the right stuff, just shallow that shaft as you transfer, help get rid of those toe shots.  Almost like you're trying to point the shaft outside the ball.  Allow the club to work down and out, rather than across.

 

Here's Brad Faxon working on something similar

 

post #346 of 1003
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys. I'm just slowly getting back from the stupid **** I was doing up thread, trying to force that club to be flatter. I think I'm back on planet earth now. d2_doh.gif

I'm going to keep trucking with this for now, maybe see what happens if I try rotating my left arm the opposite direction on the downswing. Currently I'm feeling CCW rotation (from my perspective) because I sometimes leave the face wide open but I probably need to find some balance there? I'm a little gun shy about manipulating that shaft after the mess I made earlier...

I'll look at rebooting Evolvr for a few sessions at the end of the month, the next couple of weeks are too chaotic for me to get any real practice in.
post #347 of 1003

Yo Ernest,

I have 2 cents for you.

I have to first say that I am not a stack and tilt guy right now. But I am doing some self education. 

Having said that, I have personally lowered my handicap every year. I have even dropped my handicap while having 2 kids being born. One is two and the other is now 7 months old.. The reason I feel is practicing the right things the right way. And I stopped going to the range everyday. I now go maybe once a month during the off season and maybe twice a month during. 

Here is my process that helps me and I believe 100% that if you do it, or something similar, you WILL get better.

 When working on big items I never go to the range. To many distractions and the urge to take full swings is just to much for me. Every ball I hit the wrong way is slowing down and hurting the learning process.

I do a lot of slow reps in front of a mirror at home. First without a club then with a club. It takes me many reps doing a certain move to gain a feel for it. Once I think I have a good feel (normally I have to to do near 100 reps) I will go out in the garage or in my yard and start hitting balls while recording some of the swings to see if I can perform the task while hitting balls. If not, back up and do more reps. This might seem tedious but it's really not as bad as it sounds. I will then only go to the range to check my ball flight or to gain confidence to take to the course. I used to hit a billion balls at the range and I improved VERY slowly. Basically what took me months to improve, if I even made an improvement at all; now takes me a week maybe two for small things while some might still take a couple months.

Its nearly impossible to make a full swing at speed while trying to hit a ball a certain way and make quick improvements. So if this is you.....quit it.

I started from scratch and worked on the setup and grip, then takeaway,then back swing, and so on and so on. Every new piece I make sure I am still doing all the other preceding moves correctly. Practicing to many things at once is a recipe for disaster for me. I play well thinking about one thing at a time. Any more than that I hit the ball terribly.

I know you practice a lot. But I am not sure how much practice you put in with just the individual pieces?

 

Hopefully some of this helps you. 

 

My swing advice, once you get to the top of your back swing in a proper position( whatever that might be for a stack and tilt swinger) I would figure out what is causing you to lose your tush line during your downswing. I had that move and guess what I hit? blocks,shanks, hooks, fades, thin shots,chunks. Did I leave any shot out? :) 

post #348 of 1003
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwferguson View Post
 

Yo Ernest,

I have 2 cents for you.

I have to first say that I am not a stack and tilt guy right now. But I am doing some self education. 

Having said that, I have personally lowered my handicap every year. I have even dropped my handicap while having 2 kids being born. One is two and the other is now 7 months old.. The reason I feel is practicing the right things the right way. And I stopped going to the range everyday. I now go maybe once a month during the off season and maybe twice a month during. 

Here is my process that helps me and I believe 100% that if you do it, or something similar, you WILL get better.

 When working on big items I never go to the range. To many distractions and the urge to take full swings is just to much for me. Every ball I hit the wrong way is slowing down and hurting the learning process.

I do a lot of slow reps in front of a mirror at home. First without a club then with a club. It takes me many reps doing a certain move to gain a feel for it. Once I think I have a good feel (normally I have to to do near 100 reps) I will go out in the garage or in my yard and start hitting balls while recording some of the swings to see if I can perform the task while hitting balls. If not, back up and do more reps. This might seem tedious but it's really not as bad as it sounds. I will then only go to the range to check my ball flight or to gain confidence to take to the course. I used to hit a billion balls at the range and I improved VERY slowly. Basically what took me months to improve, if I even made an improvement at all; now takes me a week maybe two for small things while some might still take a couple months.

Its nearly impossible to make a full swing at speed while trying to hit a ball a certain way and make quick improvements. So if this is you.....quit it.

I started from scratch and worked on the setup and grip, then takeaway,then back swing, and so on and so on. Every new piece I make sure I am still doing all the other preceding moves correctly. Practicing to many things at once is a recipe for disaster for me. I play well thinking about one thing at a time. Any more than that I hit the ball terribly.

I know you practice a lot. But I am not sure how much practice you put in with just the individual pieces?

 

Hopefully some of this helps you. 

 

My swing advice, once you get to the top of your back swing in a proper position( whatever that might be for a stack and tilt swinger) I would figure out what is causing you to lose your tush line during your downswing. I had that move and guess what I hit? blocks,shanks, hooks, fades, thin shots,chunks. Did I leave any shot out? :) 

Thanks, you're absolutely right about the importance of proper practicing and I'm always trying to reign myself in to buckle down and practice more efficiently. It ain't easy though!

 

Re: the tush line and early extension, I would like to see a little less of that but it's way down my list of priorities and I'm pretty confident that continuing to work on my path and AoA will probably clean that up a little as a side effect. 

 

I was on a simulator for a couple of hours yesterday and I'm pretty happy that every one of my swings had an inside approach to the ball, it wasn't very consistent and bounced around between +0.9º and +2.4º but at least it was positive all session. My biggest issue right now seems to be leaving the face open but the damage is mitigated by the inside path so I rarely see slices, just pushes which are generally not as penal. When I did get my face "squarish" I was hitting nice baby draws so I know I'm on the right track these days so I just have to keep working on my key #4 stuff and clean up my pivot a bit which I think will help with the club face.

post #349 of 1003
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

I like what Erik said, submit two dtl videos.  Looks like you're working on the right stuff, just shallow that shaft as you transfer, help get rid of those toe shots.  Almost like you're trying to point the shaft outside the ball.  Allow the club to work down and out, rather than across.

 

Here's Brad Faxon working on something similar

 

Hey Ernest ... looks like we are working on similar things these days!!  This is my new one too (along with a couple of other items).  I'll take some new video this week and update my own thread soon.

 

Not saying this from a gloating about weather standpoint, just in regards to the golf swing ... That has to be difficult to have to quit for 4 months (or whatever it is) every year and basically start all over.  I don't think its fair to say that you are regressing because "you are an idiot"  (even though I know you're being funny) when you can't even play over this stretch.  I don't envy you at all.  Keep practicing in the dungeon though!!!!

post #350 of 1003
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Hey Ernest ... looks like we are working on similar things these days!!  This is my new one too (along with a couple of other items).  I'll take some new video this week and update my own thread soon.

 

Not saying this from a gloating about weather standpoint, just in regards to the golf swing ... That has to be difficult to have to quit for 4 months (or whatever it is) every year and basically start all over.  I don't think its fair to say that you are regressing because "you are an idiot"  (even though I know you're being funny) when you can't even play over this stretch.  I don't envy you at all.  Keep practicing in the dungeon though!!!!

Thanks for the encouragement @Golfingdad , but if you take a look at some of the goofy stuff I was doing upthread to force my shaft to be flatter I think you will agree that I am, indeed, an idiot!

:doh:

However, even though I was getting all tilt-y and weird with my shoulders and crashing my knee through the wall like crazy I think it was somehow worth it in a way, I'm much more on plane now and consistently coming from the inside even if it's only by a degree or two. 

post #351 of 1003
Thread Starter 

Trying to get my trail elbow lower to shallow out without getting all tilt-y.

post #352 of 1003
Thread Starter 

Anybody out there have some feels for shallowing out the club from A4-A6 that they could share with me? I'm running out of ideas, so far the only thing that has really worked is feeling the weight of the clubhead dropping back behind its backswing plane (if that makes any sense...not that it needs to, it's just a feel) but this inevitably seems to lead to flattened shoulder turn and a weird loopiness usually accompanied by a wildly out of control trail knee.:8) 

 

Right now I've just gone back to really concentrating on banking the trail foot and making sure my weight gets forward which has gotten my path in decent shape but I'm still coming in pretty steep and do occasionally come OTT.

 

Side note: I also have to be very careful or I leave my face open a bit too much but the better path has really helped mitigate the damage on those ones.

 

Edit* I do like the feel of getting the trail elbow lower than the lead but I'm vary wary of anything that will introduce the risk of getting loopy.


Edited by Ernest Jones - 1/16/14 at 10:25am
post #353 of 1003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

Anybody out there have some feels for shallowing out the club from A4-A6 that they could share with me? I'm running out of ideas, so far the only thing that has really worked is feeling the weight of the clubhead dropping back behind its backswing plane (if that makes any sense...not that it needs to, it's just a feel) but this inevitably seems to lead to flattened shoulder turn and a weird loopiness usually accompanied by a wildly out of control trail knee.:8) 

 

Yeah, you have to control it with your arms and wrists, not the inclination of your torso.

 

In no particular order:

  • Look at what your lead and trail wrists are doing. Just go to the top and try to move only your wrists to flatten the shaft. Likely you'l feel some added palmar flexion of the lead wrist.
  • Roll your left forearm in transition.
  • Go more pitch elbow in early transition.
  • Swing your hands OUT to a target outside of the golf ball more (warning: shanks highly likely early on).
  • Feel like the clubhead passes very close to your trail ankle. Or the shaft by your right hip.
  • Feel like you're trying to hit the ball with the pinkie edge of your lead hand, or the palm of your right hand facing out away from you.
  • There are more but this should get you started.

 

Tough one. I've been working on it for years. Good luck. :)

post #354 of 1003
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Yeah, you have to control it with your arms and wrists, not the inclination of your torso.

 

In no particular order:

  • Look at what your lead and trail wrists are doing. Just go to the top and try to move only your wrists to flatten the shaft. Likely you'l feel some added palmar flexion of the lead wrist.
  • Roll your left forearm in transition.
  • Go more pitch elbow in early transition.
  • Swing your hands OUT to a target outside of the golf ball more (warning: shanks highly likely early on).
  • Feel like the clubhead passes very close to your trail ankle. Or the shaft by your right hip.
  • Feel like you're trying to hit the ball with the pinkie edge of your lead hand, or the palm of your right hand facing out away from you.
  • There are more but this should get you started.

 

Tough one. I've been working on it for years. Good luck. :)

Awesome, thanks Erik. I'll try these all out and see what clicks for me, I'm thinking the trail elbow is probably best for me as I have a tendency to leave the face open and some of these might exacerbate that particular issue. Thanks a ton for the free info, I'm going to hold off on Evolvr for now as I really can't take a full swing in my basement and I think that would just be annoying to my Evolvr coaches. :-P

 

Anyway, it's not like a need a new thing to work on, my plate is full with my original priority. It's just nice to have someone check once in a while to make sure I'm not heading in the wrong direction again.

post #355 of 1003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

Awesome, thanks Erik. I'll try these all out and see what clicks for me, I'm thinking the trail elbow is probably best for me as I have a tendency to leave the face open and some of these might exacerbate that particular issue.

 

If you think the trail elbow will work another is to try to feel that it's lower than your lead elbow during the transition and into the downswing.

 

But again the concern there is to maintain the tilt of your shoulders and not just flatten out to raise your lead elbow - you want to make your trail elbow go lower (feeling), not raise your lead elbow above it.

 

(Obviously given how the shoulders work on the downswing, you have to be the right amount of "hard on yourself" as the lead shoulder goes up and the trail shoulder goes down in the downswing…).

post #356 of 1003

EJ, 

 

Is your handicap really 25?  I mean come on.. what kind of trick are you trying to pull on us anyway?

post #357 of 1003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post
 

Is your handicap really 25?  I mean come on.. what kind of trick are you trying to pull on us anyway?

 

He's just sandbagging so he can win the SoCal event when he finally gets up the nerve to fly down and play and meet us.

post #358 of 1003
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Yeah, you have to control it with your arms and wrists, not the inclination of your torso.

 

In no particular order:

  • Look at what your lead and trail wrists are doing. Just go to the top and try to move only your wrists to flatten the shaft. Likely you'l feel some added palmar flexion of the lead wrist.
  • Roll your left forearm in transition.
  • Go more pitch elbow in early transition.
  • Swing your hands OUT to a target outside of the golf ball more (warning: shanks highly likely early on).
  • Feel like the clubhead passes very close to your trail ankle. Or the shaft by your right hip.
  • Feel like you're trying to hit the ball with the pinkie edge of your lead hand, or the palm of your right hand facing out away from you.
  • There are more but this should get you started.

 

Tough one. I've been working on it for years. Good luck. :)

This is fantastic!  I was having the same thoughts ... went out to the range the other day with the intent to try and shallow out the shaft, then realized "Huh, I'm not exactly sure how to do that."

 

I had actually "guessed" correctly in that I was trying to make the change with my wrists.  Going to try out a few of these other ones today.

post #359 of 1003
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post
 

EJ, 

 

Is your handicap really 25?  I mean come on.. what kind of trick are you trying to pull on us anyway?

Yes it is, maybe even worse as my usual course is REALLY short. I do feel like I'm always on the verge of a breakthrough though and if that ever finally happens I think my cap will drop really fast and then plateau. I just constantly get in my own way because I'm impatient.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

He's just sandbagging so he can win the SoCal event when he finally gets up the nerve to fly down and play and meet us.

That would be a TON of fun but I just don't have a spare grand lying around for airfare, one day though. It sure would be a blast to meet you all in person.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

This is fantastic!  I was having the same thoughts ... went out to the range the other day with the intent to try and shallow out the shaft, then realized "Huh, I'm not exactly sure how to do that."

 

I had actually "guessed" correctly in that I was trying to make the change with my wrists.  Going to try out a few of these other ones today.

Get your own pot of gold ya friggin' scavenger! :-P

 

Yeah, the flattening the shaft piece is a real head scratcher eh? Just make sure you learn from my follies and BEWARE THE TILTY SHOULDERS!! NOTHING BUT CRAP LIES DOWN THAT ROAD!:doh:

post #360 of 1003

What ball flight are you hitting most of the time now?  What is the shot you are trying to eliminate..

 

I'm sorry for prying so much, but if you are working on flattening the shaft then you must be getting so good contact, and now you are really just trying to control the ball spin before you move on to try and work on your starting lines.. Am I correct?

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