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Baseball vs Golf...The Most Important Difference - Page 3

post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rfordeagle View Post




Love this thread. A pressure shift in a baseball swing is vital if you want any power. The weight back part that you see in a high level swing (knee behind the foot, hip behind the knee, shoulders behind the hips) is a shallowing out technique that flattens out the swing arc with proper arm work. In some swings you will see the hips going forward ahead of the shoulders during their stride, in others hitters use lower back extension (belt forward) while keeping the head steady. Good hitters are not falling back at contact. And virtually all high level hitters do have weight going forward during their stride. The load in baseball is a weight and a pressure shift to the back foot.

I can only speak for myself but the issues I had revolved around weight shift and pressure.  Erik can probably get into more detail but Pujols weight below at impact is much different than Tiger's at impact.

 

You can get away with the Pujols position MAYBE with the driver (not even really) but with irons, not a chance.  To hit the ball before the turf on impact with the golf swing, the way weight and pressure moves in the baseball swing is completely different and doesn't translate to the golf swing well.  Also, look at Pujols wrist hands vs. Tigers.

 

 

 

 

 

post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rfordeagle View Post

 

Q: Where is the center of mass in both players?

A: More back than forward.

 

If their COM was positioned over their front foot, they'd be able to balance in that position, and their other foot could remain in the air when they were stationary.

 

That's my only point regarding weight distribution. It's not the same as pressure or force distribution.

post #39 of 46
Erik, I don't see where we disagree?

But... Hitters do have a huge pressure shift, and some weight shift.

Clearly a weight shift back and mass moving forward.
post #40 of 46
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rfordeagle View Post

Erik, I don't see where we disagree?

But... Hitters do have a huge pressure shift, and some weight shift.

 

Clearly a weight shift back and mass moving forward.

 

I didn't say we disagreed.

 

But at impact in the golf swing, the COM is 80% forward, while in the baseball swing, it's often still back of center. That's my point. Weight and pressure/force are very different things. I can move my COM forward by running, but that isn't the same as the golf swing and how it moves COM forward.

 

post #41 of 46
I agree completely with your postings.

I just want people to see the amount of COM shift Harper has in the load and stride of his swing. In my business, just like in yours we deal with a lot of myths, and one of those is staying back with no lateral shift, and squishing the bug. It simply just doesn't happen in a high level swing.
post #42 of 46

Numerous great baseball hitters hit almost entirely off their front side with no re-shift to the rear after the fact. Frank Thomas was one, and Ernie Banks was an even more extreme example.

 

Never any absolutes in these things.

post #43 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rfordeagle View Post

I just want people to see the amount of COM shift Harper has in the load and stride of his swing. In my business, just like in yours we deal with a lot of myths, and one of those is staying back with no lateral shift, and squishing the bug. It simply just doesn't happen in a high level swing.

 

I agree there's a shift, but I would imagine it's fairly small as some baseball players don't even have much of a stride (and the stride is the main thing that would shift the COM forward). But I also haven't given it much thought, because this is a golf forum, so I'm gonna talk mostly about golf.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchparrot19 View Post
 

Numerous great baseball hitters hit almost entirely off their front side with no re-shift to the rear after the fact. Frank Thomas was one, and Ernie Banks was an even more extreme example.

 

Maybe we're using different words, but in no way is his COM "forward" here:

 

 

His PRESSURE and FORCE are forward (duh), but his COM is still closer to his back foot than his front foot.

 

 

Later frames... (Click to show)
post #44 of 46
Iacas is spot on with Frank Thomas. And what a beast he is!

In baseball strides vary, but I'd consider a small stride being less than 3 inches or so. These are quite rare to see in guys with power. The best hitter in baseball, Cabrera is considered to have a small stride. Doesn't look that small to me, and quite a large lateral slide.
post #45 of 46
So, getting back to the topic, the most important difference is the height of the ball. What most people don't realize is that hitters start their swing to a fixed point they think the ball is going to end up. That fixed point is not moving. Yes a good baseball swing can be long through the hitting zone and account for fractions of timing issues. Both golf and baseball players are trying to contact the ball near the bottom of their swing arcs. Please recognize that I said near, not AT the bottom. Both swings deal with sweet spot control as well as lag, power accumulators, pressure shifts, face angles, swinging from the inside, etc. Many, many similarities.
post #46 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Maybe we're using different words, but in no way is his COM "forward" here.

 

Yeah, I see the point you're driving at.

 

With that concept in mind, it's all but impossible to hit a baseball with maximum power with a forward COM because of the plane the bat must travel along. Maybe on an outside pitch that's barely off the ground, but you can't hit that pitch with max power under any circumstances.

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