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My Swing (Beachcomber) - Page 2

post #19 of 561
Originally Posted by iacas View Post


I wouldn't worry about it too much. Look at his left wrist. It's bowed. That's the cause, and Dustin Johnson can get away with it. He just has to manage it and understand what it can cause. There's a reason Dustin Johnson's finish is so much lower than his backswing.

Dustin Johnson again?


I'm just trying to help the guy with something that I changed that really worked well for me. Maybe I should have stuck to the topic of humping goats?


post #20 of 561


Originally Posted by walk18 View Post

Dustin Johnson again?


Why not? Would you have preferred I mention Graeme McDowell? a1_smile.gif


Point being that a cupped wrist or a bowed wrist are both wrist conditions that aren't necessarily ideal, but if I had to choose one, I might choose bowed given the majority of people's problems maintaining sufficient lag (i.e. slight forward shaft lean at impact).


You can play good golf with a bowed left wrist IF you know what you're doing and manage it properly. Dustin Johnson (and Graeme McDowell) don't so much "compensate" for it as manage it.

post #21 of 561
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post

Seems to fit here. Even pros have to find creative ways to work on this. a1_smile.gif



Stretch I showed my wife this photo today... Then tonight I went to the range, and when I get back - the first thing she asked me was... "Did you have any luck setting up a bum rest?" LOL


Definitely appreciate everyone's input... I'm working on a few things at the range and was striking the ball really well.  Very happy with a few minor changes that I've made - especially after getting some input via Evolvr.  I'll continue to work on the changes and then put up a new video in a week or so to see how I've made progress. 

post #22 of 561
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by walk18 View Post

Beachcomber, at the top of your backswing, see how your clubface is facing the sky? This can cause pulls, shanks, you name it..I used to do the exact same thing, and when I fixed it I noticed a huge improvement. You want it angled toward the ball, more on plane, like Rory here. Get in front of a mirror and work on getting to that position at the top. It may seem like a small detail, but it's not, it should help tremendously.






I appreciate the input... I'm working on my right foot and bum right now...  I'll keep this in mind for future items to try and address, but I don't want to bite too much off at this point.  As I'll start thinking about too many different things.  Trying to work mostly on my right foot action.  But definitely appreciate the review.


post #23 of 561

One thing I noticed at your address to the ball your hands are so far forward. I recently went to the golf coach and he told me I am a great ball striker however I typically have a draw or pull do to my hands being so far forward when I am in my setup position. I am currently in the process of putting my hands more in the middle of my stance. Lets just say after two range sessions I want to quit because it feels so unnatural to me. However it feels like it is coming around and I am hitting my shots more straight now. With all clubs.

post #24 of 561
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by tazrestling27 View Post

One thing I noticed at your address to the ball your hands are so far forward. I recently went to the golf coach and he told me I am a great ball striker however I typically have a draw or pull do to my hands being so far forward when I am in my setup position. I am currently in the process of putting my hands more in the middle of my stance. Lets just say after two range sessions I want to quit because it feels so unnatural to me. However it feels like it is coming around and I am hitting my shots more straight now. With all clubs.

Hi taz, I appreciate you checking out my swing thread.  FYI... I just started incorporating the forward shaft position in the last quarter (back in November) after I read the Stack & Tilt Swing by Michael Bennett and Andy Plummer.  Check this out...


S&T - Shaft Position.PNGSJ 7i vs S&T - 6i Shaft Position.png


The biggest thing I have changed since this video of my 7i at address - is my right hand - is kind of under the shaft of the club.  I have brought it over the top of the shaft more - in particular the meaty part of my palm from my right index finger is placed more on top of the shaft.


You can also see that I have a strong left hand grip... But that I'm not worried about at this stage.  My biggest thing is I want to get the club on plane - and most importantly get my angles corrected at impact.  So P5/P6/P7 is what I really want to improve at this stage.


Again, thanks for the input - but I just wanted to show why I have that forward shaft lean...

post #25 of 561
Thread Starter 

I just wanted to make a post that I could come back to in the future as a reference point to where I was, based on the swing changes I'm incorporating... One of my goals this year was to start officially tracking my USGA handicap (versus using my iPhone app - Golfshot).  So I figured I could post these handicap updates here in my swing thread?  Thought it would be a great reference point to see what I was working on, and how it impacted my game.


SCGA HCP 03-1-12.png

post #26 of 561
Thread Starter 

Here are some updated photos of my swing that I had to twist my wifes arm to go to the range and film for me... Not happy with the results on film... Old habbits die hard brothers and sisters!


The good news, if I can find any after watching these swings - is that I'm hitting the ball probably better than I ever have with my irons.  They feel amazing and the results are very good.  My driver, 3W and Hybrid... Ugggh.  And I know I need to get a better camera than this 30fps crap, but I just found out that I have to pay $4K in taxes to the government so that little purchase is on the back burner for another month or two.


7i - Face On



7i Down the Line


Driver Face On


Driver Down The Line

post #27 of 561
Originally Posted by Beachcomber View Post

"Humping the Goat"!? LOL... First I've heard that terminology used in golf.  I love it!  I'll see if I can find a way to calm that right side a little more like Rock in his videos.  Any tips on how to keep my butt - and or my hips sliding toward the target line - rather than going toward the golf ball (perpindicular)?  This could explain why I tend to hit the ball closer to the hosel - and shanks creep up in my swing!!

Pretend there's a dude in front of you...not that there's anything wrong with that.

post #28 of 561
Thread Starter 

Hey guys, I hope all is going well.  It has been several weeks since I have updated my swing thread.  And while I've received some excellent hands on instruction, I still have a lot I need to work on.  I'm getting to a point where I really want to start integrating these changes into my swing, but I've been pretty busy with work and was down sick for nearly a week too.  So I haven't been able to get everything accomplished in the small window of time that I would like... But I am striking the ball a lot better.


Here are some of the things I've been up to...  Back on Sunday, 3-11-12 - I attended a one day golf school lead by Grant Waite and Joseph Mayo.  The school was held in San Diego at the San Diego Golf Institute where myself and ~ 6 other golfers received hands on instruction over the course of a full day (9AM until 6PM). 


During the school, I got the chance to hang out with Mike (MvMac) who has been working with me via Evolver over recent weeks, and learned a lot about the physics of golf, focusing on the ball flight laws and how to use tools like Trackman to understand the golf swing.  It was an amazing day packed full of great instruction and learning from Grant, Joseph and Mike.  Grant and Joseph are currently working with the likes of Charles Howell III - and they shared several of their PGA tour experiences - working with pros, and talking about Mac O'Grady, Stack and Tilt - Tiger Woods / Sean Foley and all kinds of other great stories of being on tour.   


From the fundamental side, Grant and Mike provided one-on-one instruction with me, while Joseph put me on the Trackman and broke down my numbers.  


I'll start with the Trackman experience and working with Joseph Mayo.  Using Trackman outdoors was superb, as I'd previously only used Trackman indoors at my club fitters place here in Newport Beach.  First here are my numbers on Trackman - hitting six shots with my driver - and six shots with my 6i.


Trackman Numbers - Driver (R11 - 9-deg Stiff)


Trackman Driver SJ 032612.png



Trackman Numbers - 6i (MP-59 KBS Tour Stiff)

Trackman 6i SJ 032612.png
The numbers on Trackman were a little surprising.  My 6i numbers were pretty accurate as I use it for shots from distances of 165 to 175 on average.  Those seemed legit... But, I wasn't carrying the ball nearly as far on the Trackman outdoors as I do on the course.  Typically my carry distances are in the 235 to 250 range depending on how flush I hit it.  And the distances seemed very low to me... But whatevs... I know my average drive is longer than 251.7.  c3_clap.gif   (C'mon man!)
So after hitting both my 6i and Driver, according to Joseph, he felt my swing was pretty solid according to Trackman and was happy with my numbers.  He said, if he was going to change anything around, he wanted to see my average swing directions on my clubs swapped.  Trackman showed my 6i swing direction average at 6.1* out.  And 3.1* outward swing direction on my driver (outside path helps promote a draw).  Ideally these average paths would be swapped (driver would be better at 6.1 versus 3.1 and 6i better off at 3.1 versus 6.1) according to Joesph.  
Of course personally - I would like to increase my swing speed to get more distance. e3_rolleyes.gif  But I wonder if my outward path of 6.1 with my 6i - provides a hint as to why my misses - when I do miss can sometimes be a big draw or hook - or even sometimes a shank off the hosel.  Good news to report, I haven't been hitting shots off the hosel for a month+!! (Thank You God)


Grant Waite Shadow Swing



As you can see, the tempo of my swing was quite quicker than Grant's.  The caddie view was before he added some speed to his tempo so he could be in sync with my swing. The down the line video was a little better synchronization between our swings... This was after he added some speed to his own tempo.  My take from this experience shadowing of our swings, was that my tempo is a little quicker than most.  But it was great to have my swing side by side with his - so I can better see the faults and breakdowns in my swing compared to Grant's.


One of the main things that Grant stated that he would like to see me work on is fixing my right elbow (spacing at P4).  I have a chicken wing - or the right elbow flares in my back swing as my right shoulder blade (scapula) continues to travel to far from P3 into P4 - causing the right elbow to separate or disconnect from my core.  He stated that he would like to see a maximum of 4 to 6 inches found between my right elbow and my core at P4.  My right elbow is moving far off my body - which is causing issues with my right leg/back - posture in the down swing and follow through.  And a pressure point that I need to focus on is my right armpit - make sure that I'm not letting that right arm (travel) - armpit (open)


He also stated that the grip isn't something that they typically work on with students, but my grip was so strong - that it was causing issues with the way my left wrist hinged (or lack of hinge) in the back swing.


Details of the Grip Changes - Weakening my Left Hand


I have changed my grip after this day of instruction with Grant, and here are some photos taken of my grip (post changes). 


These photos were taken today at the range today, 3-26-12.






Using http://perfectgolfswingreview.net/grip.htm - I also found some great images to help grasp the perfect neutral golf grip.  Here are a few of my favorite images I like to keep in mind when griping the golf club...








Here is a photo of my swing after incorporating some of the changes Grant highlighted back on 3-11 - compared to where I'm at today 3-26.  My right elbow spacing is getting better - but still not where I want it to be.


Range Work 3-26.png


In this Grant side-by-side of me on 3-11 - side-by-side of me on 3-26... You can see that my right elbow spacing is a little better - I'm trying to shorten my back swing like Grant - but my wrist hinge and elbow spacing needs work.  This is what I need to work on in a mirror - just do this back swing a couple thousand times to get it ingrained in my thick skull.


Lastly, here is my updated swings from the range 3-26.  


SJ - 7i DTL 3-26-12



SJ 7i - Face On 3-26-12



PS. I have a 13 minute video of detailed instruction with Grant... And if I get permission to post, I will post it here as it will help you understand what issues were identified in my swing, and what I'm working on.  All-in-all... If I can get these moves mastered... I believe I'll be well on my way to better ball striking.

post #29 of 561
Thread Starter 

Hi guys, here is a quick update / video I filmed tonight at the range.  


Primary thing I'm working on... Trying to get the proper shaft alignment at P4 - such that the club face is square and not closed.


Things I feel like I've accomplished over the last month... My grip overhaul (see previous post) is really helping my ball striking.  I've been flushing it and controlling my curvature a lot better than I can ever remember. I feel like I can now really focus on other elements of the swing now that my grip is fixed.  The good - I shot a 74 with 5 birdies on Sunday.  The bad - I still know my swing has a ton of room for improvement.


4-24-12 Update

post #30 of 561
Thread Starter 

Hi fellow Sandtrappers!  Here is a new video of a quick practice session I did this afternoon following work.



I will start by saying golf is hard.  Really hard.  But, I've been having a lot more fun playing golf the last month.  I'm breaking 80 more regularly... And really like my short game at the moment.  In particular my putting has been very solid and saved my butt several times.  


I've put a lot of hours into practice... Regular practice sessions at the range at least 3 or 4 times a week - and playing another 2 or 3 times a week.  I also try and practice at home a few nights/days during the week and weekend on putting (Putting Alley) and just simple back swings in the mirror.  


All the practice and playing is slowly paying dividends as I'm hitting decent shots more frequently.  But to be honest, I'm still disgusted that I can't get my freaking club face square at P4/A4 without a mirror.  I keep trying but I still can't get the correct left wrist cock at the top.  I'm not giving up!!  I'm going to get it - and like my swing better now that I've shortened my back swing.


For reference, here is my latest USGA handicap... You can see my scores are getting better which is pretty sweet.


USGA HDCP 052912.png


I believe my handicap should go down again when it is updated at the end of the month as I have 9 rounds which aren't factored into my index, and four of those rounds are 79 or lower, with one being a 76 which I shot this past weekend on a 72.2/131 Pete Dye course.  


My bad rounds are low 80's now... And those are made up of a few blow up holes.  When I miss - I'm still either blocking the driver (right) - or the worst is when I shank a shot off the freaking club hosel.  I believe I figured out what's causing the hosel shots - which is simply me leaning into the shot on the downswing - causing me to cross the line and hit the ball either very thin off the heel - or shank it off the hosel.  


Things I'm working on right now are:


1.) Pressure points in my armpits - major focus on right armpit at the moment (trail arm)

- Eliminates my arms from leaving my trunk

- Helps reduce the chance of a shank - and keeps my hits toward the middle of the clubface

2.) Square Clubface at P4/A4

- Trying to get it square - but this is so freaking hard for me

- I think my physiology is different or something - I really don't understand how this can be so difficult to master without a mirror

3.) Physical Health

- I'm going to the gym (24hr fitness) regularly now - ~ 3 to 4 times a week

- I've lost 8lbs and increased my strength considerably over the last 1.5mo

- Les Mills Body Pump, Body Attack classes, mixed in with resistance bands and cardio on the treadmill and stair climber has gotten me into form

- The wife and I have been really watching what we eat (low carbs, more fruits / vegtables and lean meats (chicken, fish, turkey) - really reduced the amount of food we eat out (no more McDonalds, Wendy's, Carl Jr's)


I think I'm the most proud of the way I feel.  Really guys - take care of yourself.  It is amazing how much happier I am right now just getting up and going to the gym and eating right throughout the day.

post #31 of 561
Thread Starter 

Met with mvmac yesterday - and he gave me some new feels to work on.  I'll throw a new video up that I made last night at the range which was taken from my iPhone (poor quality - but shows some immediate improvement).  


Side note, I just got this update via email this morning... First time I've been below a 5 in a long time!! Evolvr rocks!  mvmac is the man!!


USGA HDCP 060112.png

post #32 of 561

Congrats on the improvement! Nice to see hard work paying off. a1_smile.gif

post #33 of 561
Thread Starter 

Courtesy of mvmac - who is this guy!?  


SJ - P4.jpg



This was me after 2 minutes of mvmac showing me what I was not doing with my left arm / wrist.  He showed me how to hit this position in practice- which I wasn't doing before.  Thus why the clubface was always closed at P4.  




Folks, for those that are following this thread... I'm telling you - go see a good instructor.  It could be something so minor - that can make such a big impact in your game! 

post #34 of 561

Originally Posted by Beachcomber View Post

Met with mvmac yesterday - and he gave me some new feels to work on.  I'll throw a new video up that I made last night at the range which was taken from my iPhone (poor quality - but shows some immediate improvement).  


Side note, I just got this update via email this morning... First time I've been below a 5 in a long time!! Evolvr rocks!  mvmac is the man!!




Last night at the range?!  Didn't you hit golf balls yesterday?  lol  Great to hear and happy I was able to talk and show you some stuff in person.  New feels but working to improve the same pieces/Keys.


I wanted to show you that you can do it and a good "drill" to help, for both of us, identify what your feel was to hit that A4.  Keep doing that drill, like 20 times a day.  Seriously, you'll start to see improvements in the picture and start identifying, even when not looking in the mirror, the positions of the arms, wrists, elbows.


I started doing the same thing at home, 20 practice moves a day for what I needed to do and saw immediate improvement.  Then got a little lazy and seeing some regression.  Takes some discipline, but like Grant says, "We know we're right".  a1_smile.gif

post #35 of 561

Great thread. So...what were you not doing with your left arm/wrist?

post #36 of 561
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by Bo the Golfer View Post

Great thread. So...what were you not doing with your left arm/wrist?


The only way I can really explain what I was doing before with my left arm/wrist was if you were to keep the back of your left hand (for a right handed golf swing) facing the target as long as possible on the takeaway - and then as I got into P3+... I would just move my left hand/wrist such that it was more of a 'thumbs up' type of move.  I didn't rotate my forearm at all which was causing issues.  Perhaps mvmac can explain it in better golf terminology than I can?

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