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Proper Grip Pressure (It's Firmer than You Might Think) - Page 5

post #73 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by ay33660 View Post
 

 

I wished someone had told me this 15 years ago.

 

It has taken me till the last year before I actually got this. I've always wonder how the hell one hold a club "like holding a bird" yet maintaining adequate control.

 

The concept of a soft wrist and forearms is exactly what I have been practicing for the last year and I also do the waving the clubhead around though not in the air ..... more like what Duffner does.

I will take a few practice swings and if I find myself increasing grip pressure in transition I take that to mean I didn't have enough grip pressure to begin with so I increase it at address until I don't feel the need to increase it in transition. I think that the amount of grip pressure you use is not as important as maintaining that grip pressure throughout the swing.

post #74 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post

Festivus. You brought up a great point. The discription of TOO TIGHT is a matter of opinion. Advanced players do swing at higher swing speeds and tend to grip the club tighter as well. I am guilty of such. The difference is, I grip with the correct fingers, which still allows me great fluidity in the hands. I really like Ben Hogan's discription in so far as the mechanical aspect. The 3 - 2 fingers used. Quite honestly, I would almost cut the bird in half but again, it's with the middle, ring, and pinkey fingers of the dominant hand, and the middle and ring fingers of the rear hand. I am a very aggressive player. My irons are around 110 mph with irons, and 118 with the driver. It's hard to hold the club gently and really go after it. Plus, I take deep divots with my mid to short irons, thus compressing the ball hard. A sturdy grip is needed. 

What do deep divots have to do with compressing the ball hard?
post #75 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post
 

Festivus. You brought up a great point. The discription of TOO TIGHT is a matter of opinion. Advanced players do swing at higher swing speeds and tend to grip the club tighter as well. I am guilty of such. The difference is, I grip with the correct fingers, which still allows me great fluidity in the hands. I really like Ben Hogan's discription in so far as the mechanical aspect. The 3 - 2 fingers used. Quite honestly, I would almost cut the bird in half but again, it's with the middle, ring, and pinkey fingers of the dominant hand, and the middle and ring fingers of the rear hand. I am a very aggressive player. My irons are around 110 mph with irons, and 118 with the driver. It's hard to hold the club gently and really go after it. Plus, I take deep divots with my mid to short irons, thus compressing the ball hard. A sturdy grip is needed. 

 

Off topic, steep angle off attack has nothing to do with compressing the golf ball. That is all dependent on clubhead speed and obliqueness of the strike. Meaning a 4 iron will compress the ball more than a wedge because the angle at impact is much less due to dynamic loft. This is why maximum smash factor decreases with an increase in loft. 

 

Yes grip pressure is individual. Its like a doctor asking if this pain feels like on a scale of 1-10. Even then you might experience something new in life that shifts all other pain before it. Like I had a liver biopsy done. The phantom pain from that was probably a 9 out of 10. Now I never broken a bone before, or other injuries. So that might become a 7 later on in life, hopefully not. 

post #76 of 111

The divot has absolutely nothing to do with compressing the ball at all. However, the divot is merely a result of compressing the ball at any level. The clubhead is designed to strike (DOWN) onto the ball and a divot is the result of the point beyond the ball strike. Look at pretty much any tour player's impact. You'll see a huge chunk of earth fly out. That's no accident I assure you. They look like they're swinging at a moderate speed and not a lot of effort but the ball flies so far. Body turn, lag, and a well timed release are a key factor in making this happen but ultimately, the ball has no idea who's hitting it, it only reacts to the face of the club. So, when I speak of a deep divot, I'm referring to to hitting down onto the ball which results in a divot. I can take a 56 degree sand wedge and hit it 150 yards by simply de-lofting the club through impact, striking down onto the ball and compressing it. 

Christopher Warner

Master Teaching Professional

Golf Teachers Academy of America

PGA, USGTF, NRPGI, WGTF,WGCA,

INTERNATIONAL PGA, USGA - R&A,

HGA, AGA.

Top 100 Teachers

post #77 of 111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post
 

The divot has absolutely nothing to do with compressing the ball at all. However, the divot is merely a result of compressing the ball at any level.

 

I don't particularly agree with the wording.

 

And I don't just mean the use of the word "compressing" instead of the more appropriate term "deforming."

 

To illustrate my point, let me ask you this question: do you deform the golf ball more with a driver (ball sitting on a tee), or a pitching wedge (ball on the fairway)?

 

The divot is not a result of "deforming" the golf ball. Deformation is spin loft (I think that's even in someone's signature). If you have an AoA of -6° and a delivered loft of 30°, spin loft is 36° (assuming path to face is 0°). You can "deform" the golf ball even more by having an AoA of -1° and a delivered loft of 33°, as spin loft is only 34° in that case… and you'd not really take much of a divot at all.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post
 

So, when I speak of a deep divot, I'm referring to to hitting down onto the ball which results in a divot. I can take a 56 degree sand wedge and hit it 150 yards by simply de-lofting the club through impact, striking down onto the ball and compressing it. 

 

a) Deep divots are generally not taken on Tour - guys take surprisingly small divots, most of the time, on the PGA Tour.

b) See the above - a big divot is not necessarily an indication of great deformation.

 

PGA Tour averages for AoA and shaft lean are both not 1:1 (i.e. they lean the shaft forward quite a bit more than their AoA*), and the AoA numbers are smaller than many people would imagine.

 

* For example, 16° shaft lean, AoA -2° is quite possible.

post #78 of 111

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Sounds like you passed your math class. For some reason, you feel the need to go far beyond what the average golfers even understands or for that matter, even cares about. You're taking things out of context and nit - picking. Nobody says to cultivate after striking the ball. Nobody wants to get a protractor out when on the range or the course. I'm trying to keep it in laymen's terms and you're trying to get scientific. We're impressed OK? So explain why many of the tour players do take some deep divots with their irons. Perhaps they should come to you instead of Sean Foley for lessons. 

 

 

 

post #79 of 111
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post
 

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Sounds like you passed your math class. For some reason, you feel the need to go far beyond what the average golfers even understands or for that matter, even cares about.

 

Uhm, okay. You seem to have a very low opinion of golfers if you think they cannot understand the very basic things I've talked about. The simple point, which I'm sure most people reading my post will get, is that "compression" (or deformation) is not necessarily related to the size of your divot.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post
 

Nobody says to cultivate after striking the ball.

 

When did I ever say anything about "cultivate after striking the ball"? I'm not even sure what that means…

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post
 

Nobody wants to get a protractor out when on the range or the course.

 

I didn't suggest they should.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post
 

I'm trying to keep it in laymen's terms and you're trying to get scientific.

 

I wouldn't have felt the need to respond if your laymen's terms had been correct. They're misleading or incorrect. You can "compress" (deform) a golf ball without taking a divot. In fact, you can "compress" (deform) a golf ball MORE when taking a SHALLOWER divot. Deep divots are not at all proof that you've "compressed" (deformed) the golf ball more.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post
 

We're impressed OK? So explain why many of the tour players do take some deep divots with their irons. Perhaps they should come to you instead of Sean Foley for lessons. 

 

Most PGA Tour players don't take deep divots. Do you have the average AoA for various clubs? Do you know that for a 7-iron, the average AoA is -3.8° or so? That's not going to produce a very deep divot.

 

- The Luke Donald video you posted was a good example of that. Even with a short iron he barely takes a divot - it flies apart into many pieces.

 

- The Tiger video was posted to YouTube because it was so rare. Tiger, IIRC, missed the green, his hand comes off the club and he finishes one-handed, and it was super-rainy that week. He was also working with Sean Foley and for awhile had much too steep of an AoA, which lead to distance control problems for awhile. There was much talk of his distance control issues with wedges; you can look that up.

 

- The last video, what? It's a guy who says you should take a divot after the golf ball. No disagreement here.

 

Perhaps you could answer my question about the driver? Then we can stop talking, because "divots" don't really seem to have much to do with "Grip Pressure."

 

P.S. I don't feel the need to brag about myself like you do with your block of text at the end of many of your posts, but I'm pretty confident in my abilities as both an instructor and as a trainer of other instructors.

post #80 of 111
I prefer getting correct information to having an instructor feed me cliches because he doesn't think I'm smart enough to understand the real info.
post #81 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post
 

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Sounds like you passed your math class. For some reason, you feel the need to go far beyond what the average golfers even understands or for that matter, even cares about. You're taking things out of context and nit - picking. Nobody says to cultivate after striking the ball. Nobody wants to get a protractor out when on the range or the course. I'm trying to keep it in laymen's terms and you're trying to get scientific. We're impressed OK? So explain why many of the tour players do take some deep divots with their irons. Perhaps they should come to you instead of Sean Foley for lessons. 

 

 

 

 

1) Luke takes a shallow divot. I wouldn't be basing most swings off of Luke. There is a reason why he struggles on tour, its because he lacks distance and his irons are not really that good

2) Look at the divot Tiger hits, do you see the massive amount of water that came off that strike. That course has a lot of water to it. Good job on picking a video were anyone taking any sort of divot will be taking a deeper divot than normal due to wet course conditions

3) It isn't about bringing out a protractor, but if you want to look at numbers, trackman will back us up. Average angle of descent even for a wedge is about negative 5 degrees for a PGA tour player. That isn't that steep. Just because I can, lets say you take a 6 inch long divot, the deepest part will be about halfway through the divot. The club travels on an arch. So at 3 inches the depth of the divot for a wedge will be about 0.26 inches, just a bit over a quarter of an inch. That isn't that deep. Pro's wont be taking 6 inch long divots anyway. 

post #82 of 111

Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Well it looks like you found your miracle man. You should get together. You might also want to spell check when you post.

 

Christopher Warner

Master Teaching Professional

Golf Teachers Academy of America

PGA, USGTF, NRPGI, WGTF,WGCA,

INTERNATIONAL PGA, USGA - R&A,

HGA, AGA.

Top 100 Teachers

post #83 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post
 

Well it looks like you found your miracle man. You should get together. You might also want to spell check when you post.

 

YAY! we won the argument, @golfballs01  has resorted to ripping on grammar and spelling!!! You know that is basically a sign that the person has nothing left but their pride and can't come up with anything better so they deflect to the person's grammar. 

post #84 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post
 

Well it looks like you found your miracle man. You should get together. You might also want to spell check when you post.

You must be a joy to work with as a teaching professional, first you insult the student by dumbing down everything you teach to the point of it being useless anecdotes and cliches and then you act like a smart ass. Nice. Why don't you peddle your vapid McTips approach to Golf Digest?

 

Remind to ignore all Top 100 blah,blah,blah accolades in the future.

post #85 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post

Well it looks like you found your miracle man. You should get together. You might also want to spell check when you post.

Sour grapes...
post #86 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post


Sour grapes...

Salted nuts...

post #87 of 111

Perhaps what we should is meet on the course, lay a little money on it and don't forget the Trackman, and we can see who walks away with a pocket full of money. This is why I stopped corresponding on sandtrap because of immature clowns like you. Then after I kick your a.. on the course, I just kick you a.. You're obviously a punk that hides on the computer.   

 

Christopher Warner

Master Teaching Professional

Golf Teachers Academy of America

PGA, USGTF, NRPGI, WGTF,WGCA,

INTERNATIONAL PGA, USGA - R&A,

HGA, AGA.

Top 100 Teachers

post #88 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post

Perhaps what we should is meet on the course, lay a little money on it and don't forget the Trackman, and we can see who walks away with a pocket full of money. This is why I stopped corresponding on sandtrap because of immature clowns like you. Then after I kick your a.. on the course, I just kick you a.. You're obviously a punk that hides on the computer.   

It just keeps getting better...
post #89 of 111

I have to stop and realize that I'm being drawn into childish confrontation. I was wrong to allow myself to react in such a manner. I will take the first step and apologize for my words. As a professional, I should have more control. I will kindly bow out of this conversation not as a loser but as a mature person. We have our different opinions and that's ok. All of the greats of the game have critics as well. So with that. I hope that my apology is accepted.

 

Christopher Warner

Master Teaching Professional

Golf Teachers Academy of America

PGA, USGTF, NRPGI, WGTF,WGCA,

INTERNATIONAL PGA, USGA - R&A,

HGA, AGA.

Top 100 Teachers

post #90 of 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfballs01 View Post

I have to stop and realize that I'm being drawn into childish confrontation. I was wrong to allow myself to react in such a manner. I will take the first step and apologize for my words. As a professional, I should have more control. I will kindly bow out of this conversation not as a loser but as a mature person. We have our different opinions and that's ok. All of the greats of the game have critics as well. So with that. I hope that my apology is accepted.

Accepted...

Though I don't think you were being "drawn" in. At least not at the start of the disagreement.
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