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Hank Haney's Book "The Big Miss" about his time teaching Tiger - Page 14

post #235 of 420

I just finished reading the book. The excerpts are definitely like movie ads - trying to draw controversy and sell more books (which would be the publisher's doings and not Hanks.) There was nothing I found to be sensationalized just to sell books.

 

I will admit to being a fan of Haney and Tiger - but those trashing it, without reading it are nothing more than puppets jumping on the *trash Hank* bandwagon.

 

I definitely recommend it to all - for me to finish a book in 5 days when I have read maybe 2 other books in the last 20 years says a lot.

post #236 of 420

Reading a bunch of the comments in here absolutely blows my mind.

 

Whether a contract was in place, whether Tiger was bashed or praised, etc.. is beyond the point.

 

Tiger has made Haney rich. It's not a matter of "did Tiger pay him fairly, or did Tiger not pay him enough because he is worth 500 million". Because of Tiger, Haney is

 

1. Well Known, for the most part "known".

2. Has been in EA Sports Tiger Woods video game.

3. Has his own show on The Golf Channel

4. Gives lessons to the stars

5. Now has a book about the most famous golfer which will make him an untold amount of money.

 

Tiger hired Haney to be his coach. Should there have been an NDA from the get go. Yes, but again that is beside the point. Tiger let someone "outside his world" "INTO his world", (a well known extremely private world mind you) paid that person an agreed upon amount of money. Hank had an unprecedented look at Tiger's personal and professional life that nobody else gets to see. This fact alone, along with the fact they had an employer / employee relationship shouts from the mountain tops that "what you see/hear in my personal life is not to be mentioned" in public. Haney had "memories", well guess what...EVERY SINGLE PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE ON THIS PLANET has people in their lives that "have memories". Michael Jordan has people in his camp with memories, Peyton Manning, Kobe Bryant, etc... that doesn't make it right for someone where trust was supposed to be knowingly sacred (the trust between a golf teacher and his/her student).

 

Top that off with the fact that a source mentioned Haney had the idea for a book from the absolute get go.

 

Here is my biggest gripe that this book was written. Whether I have read it or not doesn't matter.

 

- Haney is still an active coach (maybe not to players, but to people)

- Tiger is still an active PGA Tour member and player

- The book not only delves outside of golf (even if its a little), but it introduces potential unnecessary drama for Tiger and other PGA Tour players, such as Ian Poulter. Maybe their feud is over, they have shaken hands..who knows but bringing it up is just fuel on the fire.

 

The fact this book is written even with the 3 points mentioned above makes it extremely disrespectful. Don't give me the "Tiger did xyz to his family, his sponsors, etc..." 2 wrongs don't make a right.

 

A book like this is suited after a player has reached the end of their career, not VERY active during it.

 

I do suspect Haney released this book, not just for money (lets be honest, it was to milk the relationship he "had" with Tiger and to profit off it) but with the recent years and drama...he himself suspected Tiger might never fully recover in golf, so the final "wins" with Tiger would be that he had under Haney's watch. On the flip side, should he have released this 20 years from now, when Tiger may no longer be on the tour...Tiger's wins more and more tournaments and majors, and when its all said and done, nobody will be talking about the majors one in the mid 2000's, but the majors won under someone elses watch (which is what we will see with Foley).

 

The point is this book is being disrespectful not only to Tiger and his family, but his fellow PGA Tour peers, their coaches, etc...

 

Regarding how people have reacted this book. Look, someone authorized all the excerpts to be leaked. Nobody leaked excerpts of what 99% of the book covers, they released the salacious 1%. Was Haney at all involved in authorizing those leaks? I am sure Tiger was not given an early copy of the book, so even his reactions are notably based off the excerpts being released, during which he was questioned about it in interviews.

 

Whether the book was pro Tiger or anti Tiger, it was proposed to the public from Haney as "the guy who spent 6 years with Tiger...on the course and in his home" and the fact it's done in a way where the parties involved are still active in the golf community is the gross part.

 

Just my 2 cents.

post #237 of 420

Sorry, that's a little ridiculous.  No one is allowed to write a book about an active athlete? 

post #238 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by majorchamp View Post

Reading a bunch of the comments in here absolutely blows my mind.

Whether a contract was in place, whether Tiger was bashed or praised, etc.. is beyond the point.

I think those things do matter. But what I can't understand is people acting like either of them absolves Hank of all blame.

Yes, Tiger should have had him sign an NDA, although the same people would cite it as proof that Tiger is cold and inhuman. But not having an NDA doesn't make it OK for Hank to betray things seen or heard as a guest in his home about Tiger's personal life.

If I buy a new Mercedes and then park it overnight in the worst section of town, and it gets stolen, then yes, I should have known better. Maybe I should even share the blame, for being stupid. But that doesn't mean that the guy who stole it isn't a thief.
post #239 of 420

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback View Post

No I haven't read the book and I won't.  I have no interest in a barrel of sewage.

 

It is not about bashing Tiger it is about violating trust.  If he had truly kept it just about golf I would have no problem.  But unless someone tells me credibly that the excerpts that have been released are not in the book it is obvious that he went beyond it being just about golf.  And saying that his breach of trust gives insight into Tiger's mental state is just  a rationalizing cop-out because that can justify talking about anything.

 

I didn't make the Phil Jackson argument, Haney did.  And it is a bad example, but it apparently was the best Haney could come up with because what he did has NOT been done by coaches in his particular situation before.  Jack Grout never wrote a book about coaching Jack and commented on his marriage.  David Ledbetter never wrote a book about coaching Faldo, commenting on Faldo's marital issues to demonstrate his state of mind. 


Read the book.
 

 

post #240 of 420

Quote:

Originally Posted by majorchamp View Post

Reading a bunch of the comments in here absolutely blows my mind.

 

Whether a contract was in place, whether Tiger was bashed or praised, etc.. is beyond the point.

 

Tiger has made Haney rich. It's not a matter of "did Tiger pay him fairly, or did Tiger not pay him enough because he is worth 500 million". Because of Tiger, Haney is

 

1. Well Known, for the most part "known".

2. Has been in EA Sports Tiger Woods video game.

3. Has his own show on The Golf Channel

4. Gives lessons to the stars

5. Now has a book about the most famous golfer which will make him an untold amount of money.

 

Tiger hired Haney to be his coach. Should there have been an NDA from the get go. Yes, but again that is beside the point. Tiger let someone "outside his world" "INTO his world", (a well known extremely private world mind you) paid that person an agreed upon amount of money. Hank had an unprecedented look at Tiger's personal and professional life that nobody else gets to see. This fact alone, along with the fact they had an employer / employee relationship shouts from the mountain tops that "what you see/hear in my personal life is not to be mentioned" in public. Haney had "memories", well guess what...EVERY SINGLE PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE ON THIS PLANET has people in their lives that "have memories". Michael Jordan has people in his camp with memories, Peyton Manning, Kobe Bryant, etc... that doesn't make it right for someone where trust was supposed to be knowingly sacred (the trust between a golf teacher and his/her student).

 

Top that off with the fact that a source mentioned Haney had the idea for a book from the absolute get go.

 

Here is my biggest gripe that this book was written. Whether I have read it or not doesn't matter.

 

- Haney is still an active coach (maybe not to players, but to people)

- Tiger is still an active PGA Tour member and player

- The book not only delves outside of golf (even if its a little), but it introduces potential unnecessary drama for Tiger and other PGA Tour players, such as Ian Poulter. Maybe their feud is over, they have shaken hands..who knows but bringing it up is just fuel on the fire.

 

The fact this book is written even with the 3 points mentioned above makes it extremely disrespectful. Don't give me the "Tiger did xyz to his family, his sponsors, etc..." 2 wrongs don't make a right.

 

A book like this is suited after a player has reached the end of their career, not VERY active during it.

 

I do suspect Haney released this book, not just for money (lets be honest, it was to milk the relationship he "had" with Tiger and to profit off it) but with the recent years and drama...he himself suspected Tiger might never fully recover in golf, so the final "wins" with Tiger would be that he had under Haney's watch. On the flip side, should he have released this 20 years from now, when Tiger may no longer be on the tour...Tiger's wins more and more tournaments and majors, and when its all said and done, nobody will be talking about the majors one in the mid 2000's, but the majors won under someone elses watch (which is what we will see with Foley).

 

The point is this book is being disrespectful not only to Tiger and his family, but his fellow PGA Tour peers, their coaches, etc...

 

Regarding how people have reacted this book. Look, someone authorized all the excerpts to be leaked. Nobody leaked excerpts of what 99% of the book covers, they released the salacious 1%. Was Haney at all involved in authorizing those leaks? I am sure Tiger was not given an early copy of the book, so even his reactions are notably based off the excerpts being released, during which he was questioned about it in interviews.

 

Whether the book was pro Tiger or anti Tiger, it was proposed to the public from Haney as "the guy who spent 6 years with Tiger...on the course and in his home" and the fact it's done in a way where the parties involved are still active in the golf community is the gross part.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Funniest post of the thread and hot-favortite for the 'Over-Senstive-Tiger-Fan-Of-The-Year' award

 

 

 

 

Anyway, read the book.

 

 

post #241 of 420
Um....i never said nobody could not write a book about an active athlete. I said it was disrespectful to tiger, felloe teachers, and fellow players.

Also to the guy saying im over sensitive...replace the tiger references with your name and the hank references with eric and the rule still applies. Heck replace the names with stan and cartman.
post #242 of 420


Welcome to 2012, sewage sells. Haney is not capitalizing on Tiger the golfer, he is capitalizing on Tiger the media bomb. For every hardcore golfer crying about how evil Haney is for writing this book, there are probably 1000 soccer moms lining up for the book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post



No I haven't read the book and I won't.  I have no interest in a barrel of sewage.

 

It is not about bashing Tiger it is about violating trust.  If he had truly kept it just about golf I would have no problem.  But unless someone tells me credibly that the excerpts that have been released are not in the book it is obvious that he went beyond it being just about golf.  And saying that his breach of trust gives insight into Tiger's mental state is just  a rationalizing cop-out because that can justify talking about anything.

 

I didn't make the Phil Jackson argument, Haney did.  And it is a bad example, but it apparently was the best Haney could come up with because what he did has NOT been done by coaches in his particular situation before.  Jack Grout never wrote a book about coaching Jack and commented on his marriage.  David Ledbetter never wrote a book about coaching Faldo, commenting on Faldo's marital issues to demonstrate his state of mind. 



 

post #243 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by majorchamp View Post

Um....i never said nobody could not write a book about an active athlete. I said it was disrespectful to tiger, felloe teachers, and fellow players.
Also to the guy saying im over sensitive...replace the tiger references with your name and the hank references with eric and the rule still applies. Heck replace the names with stan and cartman.


So it's okay to write a book about an active athlete, it's just disrespectful to that athlete, his contemporaries, and the coaches.  That clears it up.

 

Your argument is pretty clear that the content doesn't matter, it's the act of writing the book that's "gross."

 

post #244 of 420

Quote:

Originally Posted by majorchamp View Post

Um....i never said nobody could not write a book about an active athlete. I said it was disrespectful to tiger, felloe teachers, and fellow players.
Also to the guy saying im over sensitive...replace the tiger references with your name and the hank references with eric and the rule still applies. Heck replace the names with stan and cartman.

I did. Both times.

I chuckled.

 

 

Anyway...have you read the book yet, sonny?  f4_glare.gif

 

 

post #245 of 420
If the person writing the book is a former instructor who had unprecendented access into a players personal life...then yes i stand by my statement. If its a reporter or someone else then it depends on the circumstance.

Again the content of the book doesnt matter to me. So whether i read it or not doesnt mean sh*t. Its disrespectful for haney to have written the book...period.
post #246 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by majorchamp View Post

If the person writing the book is a former instructor who had unprecendented access into a players personal life...then yes i stand by my statement. If its a reporter or someone else then it depends on the circumstance.
Again the content of the book doesnt matter to me. So whether i read it or not doesnt mean sh*t. Its disrespectful for haney to have written the book...period.


And it's your opinion ... period.

post #247 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtsalmela80 View Post


Welcome to 2012, sewage sells. Haney is not capitalizing on Tiger the golfer, he is capitalizing on Tiger the media bomb. For every hardcore golfer crying about how evil Haney is for writing this book, there are probably 1000 soccer moms lining up for the book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post



No I haven't read the book and I won't.  I have no interest in a barrel of sewage.

 

It is not about bashing Tiger it is about violating trust.  If he had truly kept it just about golf I would have no problem.  But unless someone tells me credibly that the excerpts that have been released are not in the book it is obvious that he went beyond it being just about golf.  And saying that his breach of trust gives insight into Tiger's mental state is just  a rationalizing cop-out because that can justify talking about anything.

 

I didn't make the Phil Jackson argument, Haney did.  And it is a bad example, but it apparently was the best Haney could come up with because what he did has NOT been done by coaches in his particular situation before.  Jack Grout never wrote a book about coaching Jack and commented on his marriage.  David Ledbetter never wrote a book about coaching Faldo, commenting on Faldo's marital issues to demonstrate his state of mind. 



 



Then those soccer moms will be reading a book mostly about golf (boring) and wanting their money back.

 

post #248 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post



And it's your opinion ... period.



your right. I just think it comes off as common sense though. The only reason, imo, people rationalize thats its ok for Haney to do the book, is because they have the intense desire to know everything about Tiger whether its private or public, as if Tiger owes them something.  "He swindled all of us, so its our right to know what he is like in private".

post #249 of 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by majorchamp View Post



your right. I just think it comes off as common sense though. The only reason, imo, people rationalize thats its ok for Haney to do the book, is because they have the intense desire to know everything about Tiger whether its private or public, as if Tiger owes them something.  "He swindled all of us, so its our right to know what he is like in private".



I don't feel like Tiger owes me anything I thought reading a book about arguably the greatest golfer ever would be a good read. Who did he swindle besides his ex wife and kids actually I would say he swindled Haney, Steinberg, and Steve Williams also since they were dragged into it. You really don't learn a whole lot of what he is like in private that you wouldn't have already figured out from watching him and I'm guessing you could figure out he was having martial problems post scandal. You are making it sound like the book totally trashes Tiger but as you can see it doesn't come close to trashing Tiger. It's hard to form an opinion on something you haven't read...

post #250 of 420

Again, does anyone want to talk about what's actually in the book?  Someone who has actually read it?  Or are we just going to continue making vague generalizations and demonizing HH based on opinions (mostly negative) about the book that are presented in this forum.

post #251 of 420

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-troop View Post

Again, does anyone want to talk about what's actually in the book?  Someone who has actually read it?  Or are we just going to continue making vague generalizations and demonizing HH based on opinions (mostly negative) about the book that are presented in this forum.

I finished it last week and I would love to talk about what's in it...but really, what's the point?

Haney could have written the most positive, one-sided, plaudit-riddled book on Tiger ever ...yet because it isn't 'official' or been 'approved' by Tiger or Steiny or whoever, the idiots would still be whining about this mythical 'Teacher/Pupil' code.and 'respect of privacy' bullsh!t that they're conveniently using to bash Haney with now, because now the book has shown to be exactly the opposite to what they originally thought.

 

post #252 of 420

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichF View Post

I finished it last week and I would love to talk about what's in it...but really, what's the point?

Haney could have written the most positive, one-sided, plaudit-riddled book on Tiger ever ...yet because it isn't 'official' or been 'approved' by Tiger or Steiny or whoever, the idiots would still be whining about this mythical 'Teacher/Pupil' code.and 'respect of privacy' bullsh!t that they're conveniently using to bash Haney with now, because now the book has shown to be exactly the opposite to what they originally thought.


Nah. Tiger is in Butch's new DVD, but because it's entirely about golf and doesn't contain unsubstantiated hearsay and gossip about his personal life, nobody's said a thing about it.

 

If Hank had written a book solely about golf-related things, and not tried to justify things like "Tiger's mental state regarding sharing his popsicles speaks to his play on the course" then people would have a whole lot less to say about it.

 

People I trust who've read it say the book is 10x as revealing of Hank's deep-seated insecurities than it is of Tiger's "mental state."

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