Hank Haney's Book "The Big Miss" about his time teaching Tiger - Page 16

I'll take your word for it that the book is 98% about golf.  I'll even give Hank the benefit of the doubt about sharing Tiger's obsession with becoming a Navy SEAL because an injury during training with them could have affected his golf. 

Where Haney gets no pass is the Ian Poulter excerpt.  Why would Hank feel the need to include in his book such an inflammatory text that Tiger sent him in confidence?  Maybe Poulter knows Tiger isn't a fan of his, but now the entire world knows that Tiger called Poulter a "d**k".  How awkward is that going to be for them if they get paired up or if it's shouted from the gallery.  There was no reason I can see to share that other than to stir up interest in the book to sell more copies.  There had to be another memory that would support the point Hank was making without trashing another active member of the Tour. 

Hank can say what he wants, but the bottom line is he wrote the book for money, so even if 98% of it is about golf, he used the 2% of trash to cash out on his relationship with Tiger and that makes him scum. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond 

Is it really a surprise that Hank's book reveals more about himself, as others have stated?

 

After all, he wrote it. They were his memories. He opened himself up. And it's what you would expect. Hank's Memoirs on his time with Tiger ... with a little Tiger thrown under the bus.

The truly surprising part to me is not that the book was revealing about Hank the person but that it revealed how insecure Hank is about himself and what he taught. It seems to me that Hank is really desperate for Tiger to appreciate all the work he did. If there is a theme it is that Tiger never appreciated him and when Hank was really feeling unappreciated he would send Tiger a really long email....whining. 

The way Hank attempts to show us that Tiger doesn't appreciate people is the relationship with Keith Kleven, Tiger's trainer, that Keith was always looking for Tiger's approval and appreciation and Hank claims Tiger never really gave it to him. I think Hank threw Keith under the bus, in order to let us the reader know Tiger doesn't appreciate anyone. Truly a passive aggressive move if you ask me. 

I have very mixed feelings about the book. On the one hand, I can see Hank's viewpoint, and he does make some valid points, but on the other hand he takes shots at Tiger because Hank feels he worked so hard but never got any love.

I may write a longer review later on after I think some more about it.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas 

I have cited specific things. The first three that spring to mind:

 

- Hearsay re: Tiger's injuries.

- Anything involving Elin.

- Popsicle-gate.

 

Still not gonna read it. Not because I don't want to. I might get to it in a few years. But there are about 20 books ahead of it on my Kindle and 10 "physical" books I'll read first.

Here's my take on those three things.

1. Start with popsicle.  Who cares?  So HH wanted a popsicle, and he was afraid to ask for one.  This says nothing about Tiger.  It says something about HH:  that he's apparently afraid to ask for a popsicle.  (Really what it says is he was enormously intimidated by Tiger and the task of coaching him--he didn't want to do anything to jeapordize the relationship.  The fact that he thought a popsicle could do so is hilarious.)

Grade:  irrelevant.  It doesn't make the book better, but it also isn't a breach of trust.

2. Hearsay regarding Tiger's injuries.  Some lady who knows some guy says Tiger's knee injury was really the result of getting smashed in the knee while doing SEAL training.  This is a very vague reference to a possibly skeptical allegation.  The source of the injury is very relevant and very important:  if Tiger really did break the knee doing SEAL training, then it says a lot about his mindset towards his golf career and Jack's records.  However, the veracity of the anecdote is skeptical.

Grade:  highly relevant and important information.  Very likely should not have survived fact-check (I'd have to read the passage, and it's context with what else HH knew, to make a judgment).  Also possible that the anecdote was in a draft, HH said "I'm not sure about this source," and the publishers responded with "This is too good to leave out."  (Of course that is total speculation, but it is also a plausible scenario.  I feel the need to play devil's advocate on Hank's behalf so that he can get a fair judgment.)

3. Anything regarding Elin.  This is, of course, the slurry at the bottom of the septic tank.  The marriage was relevant to the story, as the collapse of the marriage precipitated the collapse of Tiger.  Any observations HH had would be relevant to that story; however, anything that he observed or heard in private (i.e. in their home or on their plane traveling) should have been omitted.  Anything he saw or observed inside the ropes or on the range...well maybe, maybe not, as those are public places, and anything that happened there would have had a direct relevance to Tiger's performance and preparation. 

Let's consider two examples: 

If Tiger was on the range and turned to HH and said "My wife is really being a .....", then that should have been omitted. 

However, consider this.  "We were hitting balls after Tiger's second round at Doral.  Tiger was getting text messages every two or three minutes, and he kept interrupting our session to respond.  I asked him what was up, and he just said 'Elin'.  Earlier that day, when Tiger was walking off of the 18th green, I heard Elin say something about dinner plans, and Tiger brushed her off, saying 'I gotta work on my stinger.'  It was clear to me that the relationship was being strained by Tiger's quest, and that was impacting his ability to focus." 

Grade:  not sure.  We'd need to look at each reference to Elin individually, and in context.

It would be really nice if I had read the book so I could cite things from the actual book, BTW.  But that's how I would analyze it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas 

Thanks for sharing. FWIW, I didn't read past this point. 

 

And the thing about Ian Poulter, and Zach Johnson, also count. They're current players and Ian hitching a ride has nothing to do with Tiger's "quest" as a golfer.

Agree, the comment about Poulter was totally irrelevant, and only could have been included as an overt attempt to make Tiger look bad.  I dispute that it would somehow affect Tiger and Poulter's relationship, since it's been reported before that they don't like each other.

The Zach story was stupid, and personal.  It was a prank; I guess the point is that these guys aren't robots, they do what teammates in every other sport do to one another.   Although casting it as Tiger pulling a prank based on Zach's faith seems like another attempt to inflame people against Tiger.  FWIW, someone on this forum commented that the story had been told before, and that Zach thought it was hilarious.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchepp 

 

I may write a longer review later on after I think some more about it.  

I hope you do.  I need to get out to B&N myself, but the closest one is in the middle of Honolulu (might as well be Mars).  For such a small island, it sure is hard to get places sometimes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-troop 

Agree, the comment about Poulter was totally irrelevant, and only could have been included as an overt attempt to make Tiger look bad.  I dispute that it would somehow affect Tiger and Poulter's relationship, since it's been reported before that they don't like each other.

 

The Zach story was stupid, and personal.  It was a prank; I guess the point is that these guys aren't robots, they do what teammates in every other sport do to one another.   Although casting it as Tiger pulling a prank based on Zach's faith seems like another attempt to inflame people against Tiger.  FWIW, someone on this forum commented that the story had been told before, and that Zach thought it was hilarious.
 

 

The Poulter comment could actually be taken as him being a mooch more than Tiger being a jerk.

I would tend to believe the Zack Johnson story was more about Tiger actually having a sense of humor, since he does come across as a bit robotic.
 

lulz. Man you jump to conclusions way too easily bud.

Never said the contents of the book were irrelevant. The mere writing of the book, timing of the book, and the way the book has been promoted speaks volumes to Haney's character, that he (and the parties involved) are on a last second cash grab on Tiger's name, and is disrespectful / unprofessional not only to Haney's peers, but to Tiger and his fellow peers, especially given they are active players.

Other then thegolfchannel.com listing like 3-4 teachers/instructors and their thoughts on whether there was a breach of trust between teacher/student, mythological or not (as someone put it) I would honestly like to know what most teacher/instructors really think not only about Haney writing the book, but about whether there was a breach of trust.

I am going to be looked at as a Tiger "lover", which I am not..I do respect him for the golfer he is though...and people may look at you as a Haney "lover" which I am sure you are not.

Fact of the matter is, Haney threw his own name in the mud in order to make some last minute sales off Tiger's name (which at the time of the writing..wasn't showing too many signs of good progress). For all we know (and I can't confirm this), this book has been in the making slowly since day one of meeting Tiger. That is just professionally gross.

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-troop 

3. Anything regarding Elin.  This is, of course, the slurry at the bottom of the septic tank.  The marriage was relevant to the story, as the collapse of the marriage precipitated the collapse of Tiger.  Any observations HH had would be relevant to that story; however, anything that he observed or heard in private (i.e. in their home or on their plane traveling) should have been omitted.  Anything he saw or observed inside the ropes or on the range...well maybe, maybe not, as those are public places, and anything that happened there would have had a direct relevance to Tiger's performance and preparation.

Weak analogy coming...

So when Phil's wife was going through cancer, and his game showed signs of weakness and Rick Smith or whoever was his instructor at the time wrote a book, it would be ok for him to highlight various opinions about what he saw Phil and his wife were going through and how it affected his game.

I said "weak" because Phil's game didn't take the striking downward crumble that Tiger's did, but the point is still made.

Do you not realize that every single married athlete in this world has some drama in their life that affects their well being, mental and physical state? Hell, every single married normal person in this world has the same problems. If my wife and I have a fight, I try not to let it affect my day at the office, but its going to have some bearing. That's nobody's "business" though and certainly shouldn't get a mention in a "book" because someone observed it.

If Haney wanted to say Elin and Tiger's marriage fell apart, which was obvious given the drama that unfolded publicly for Tiger, that is fine because that is common knowledge. But to include the various "details" as to what precipitated the crumbling of the marriage isn't necessary. But that is still beside the point (for me personally) because I again think Haney coming out with the book in the first place is slimy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by majorchamp 

Weak analogy coming...

 

So when Phil's wife was going through cancer, and his game showed signs of weakness and Rick Smith or whoever was his instructor at the time wrote a book, it would be ok for him to highlight various opinions about what he saw Phil and his wife were going through and how it affected his game.

 

I said "weak" because Phil's game didn't take the striking downward crumble that Tiger's did, but the point is still made.

 

Do you not realize that every single married athlete in this world has some drama in their life that affects their well being, mental and physical state? Hell, every single married normal person in this world has the same problems. If my wife and I have a fight, I try not to let it affect my day at the office, but its going to have some bearing. That's nobody's "business" though and certainly shouldn't get a mention in a "book" because someone observed it.

 

If Haney wanted to say Elin and Tiger's marriage fell apart, which was obvious given the drama that unfolded publicly for Tiger, that is fine because that is common knowledge. But to include the various "details" as to what precipitated the crumbling of the marriage isn't necessary. But that is still beside the point (for me personally) because I again think Haney coming out with the book in the first place is slimy.

Fair point, and I get what you're saying.  But different for two reasons.

1.  Tiger's marital collapse DID cause his golfing collapse.

2.  Tiger's marital collapse was due to his own gross misconduct.

Commenting on Phil and Amy would be in very poor taste, outside of something like "Amy and Phil were going through very difficult times, and he was focused on his family rather than golf," or "Phil was going along really well until Amy got sick.  It's really sad and unfortunate what happened, and he did the absolute right thing by taking three months off, but I think it cost him a major that year.  But of course all thoughts of the Open were discarded with that diagnosis."
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by majorchamp 

Reading a bunch of the comments in here absolutely blows my mind.

 

Whether a contract was in place, whether Tiger was bashed or praised, etc.. is beyond the point.

 

Tiger has made Haney rich. It's not a matter of "did Tiger pay him fairly, or did Tiger not pay him enough because he is worth 500 million". Because of Tiger, Haney is

 

1. Well Known, for the most part "known".

2. Has been in EA Sports Tiger Woods video game.

3. Has his own show on The Golf Channel

4. Gives lessons to the stars

5. Now has a book about the most famous golfer which will make him an untold amount of money.

 

Tiger hired Haney to be his coach. Should there have been an NDA from the get go. Yes, but again that is beside the point. Tiger let someone "outside his world" "INTO his world", (a well known extremely private world mind you) paid that person an agreed upon amount of money. Hank had an unprecedented look at Tiger's personal and professional life that nobody else gets to see. This fact alone, along with the fact they had an employer / employee relationship shouts from the mountain tops that "what you see/hear in my personal life is not to be mentioned" in public. Haney had "memories", well guess what...EVERY SINGLE PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE ON THIS PLANET has people in their lives that "have memories". Michael Jordan has people in his camp with memories, Peyton Manning, Kobe Bryant, etc... that doesn't make it right for someone where trust was supposed to be knowingly sacred (the trust between a golf teacher and his/her student).

 

Top that off with the fact that a source mentioned Haney had the idea for a book from the absolute get go.

 

Here is my biggest gripe that this book was written. Whether I have read it or not doesn't matter.

 

- Haney is still an active coach (maybe not to players, but to people)

- Tiger is still an active PGA Tour member and player

- The book not only delves outside of golf (even if its a little), but it introduces potential unnecessary drama for Tiger and other PGA Tour players, such as Ian Poulter. Maybe their feud is over, they have shaken hands..who knows but bringing it up is just fuel on the fire.

 

The fact this book is written even with the 3 points mentioned above makes it extremely disrespectful. Don't give me the "Tiger did xyz to his family, his sponsors, etc..." 2 wrongs don't make a right.

 

A book like this is suited after a player has reached the end of their career, not VERY active during it.

 

I do suspect Haney released this book, not just for money (lets be honest, it was to milk the relationship he "had" with Tiger and to profit off it) but with the recent years and drama...he himself suspected Tiger might never fully recover in golf, so the final "wins" with Tiger would be that he had under Haney's watch. On the flip side, should he have released this 20 years from now, when Tiger may no longer be on the tour...Tiger's wins more and more tournaments and majors, and when its all said and done, nobody will be talking about the majors one in the mid 2000's, but the majors won under someone elses watch (which is what we will see with Foley).

 

The point is this book is being disrespectful not only to Tiger and his family, but his fellow PGA Tour peers, their coaches, etc...

 

Regarding how people have reacted this book. Look, someone authorized all the excerpts to be leaked. Nobody leaked excerpts of what 99% of the book covers, they released the salacious 1%. Was Haney at all involved in authorizing those leaks? I am sure Tiger was not given an early copy of the book, so even his reactions are notably based off the excerpts being released, during which he was questioned about it in interviews.

 

Whether the book was pro Tiger or anti Tiger, it was proposed to the public from Haney as "the guy who spent 6 years with Tiger...on the course and in his home" and the fact it's done in a way where the parties involved are still active in the golf community is the gross part.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by majorchamp 

 

Never said the contents of the book were irrelevant.

Okay, I'll agree with that.  It looked to me at first glance that you were saying the contents were irrelevant.  You do reference content, but only in the fact that it will impact other people, not whether the specific things written were unrelated to golf, unnecessary to a critical analysis of Tiger's golf, or obtained through exploitation of access to Tiger's home.  I am reading your post to say that the content isn't really the concern, it's the timing that bugs you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchepp 

 

The truly surprising part to me is not that the book was revealing about Hank the person but that it revealed how insecure Hank is about himself and what he taught. It seems to me that Hank is really desperate for Tiger to appreciate all the work he did. If there is a theme it is that Tiger never appreciated him and when Hank was really feeling unappreciated he would send Tiger a really long email....whining. 

 

The way Hank attempts to show us that Tiger doesn't appreciate people is the relationship with Keith Kleven, Tiger's trainer, that Keith was always looking for Tiger's approval and appreciation and Hank claims Tiger never really gave it to him. I think Hank threw Keith under the bus, in order to let us the reader know Tiger doesn't appreciate anyone. Truly a passive aggressive move if you ask me. 

 

I have very mixed feelings about the book. On the one hand, I can see Hank's viewpoint, and he does make some valid points, but on the other hand he takes shots at Tiger because Hank feels he worked so hard but never got any love.

 

I may write a longer review later on after I think some more about it.  

I like your write-up.

It seems there were mental issues all over the place in the Tiger camp ... I'd like to read a take on the agent, Steinberg. It seems these guys need a discussion group - Stevie, Hank, Keith, Elin, et al, to work out their issues on their Tiger time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-troop 

 

 

 

Okay, I'll agree with that.  It looked to me at first glance that you were saying the contents were irrelevant.  You do reference content, but only in the fact that it will impact other people, not whether the specific things written were unrelated to golf, unnecessary to a critical analysis of Tiger's golf, or obtained through exploitation of access to Tiger's home.  I am reading your post to say that the content isn't really the concern, it's the timing that bugs you.

I have to give it to you...you are very detailed :)

It's the timing, but as mentioned earlier, it's just the fact that he was paid by Tiger to do a particular job, invited into his private home/life and his expenses were taken care of, a place to stay, would have dinners with Tiger's family, and because he had "memories" he felt it was ok to share the memories he had during those private stays, whether they were fact or just opinion based on his observations. Point being, I think its disrespectful and unprofessional what he did because that 2% as everyone keeps saying is "enough" to dirty the book up merely for more sales which downgrades its quality and purpose.

I will keep falling back on the opinion that if you apply yourself, as a person, into this situation and a friend wrote a book about you without even notifying you in advance, or that this friend was collecting details of your life to include in a future book without your knowledge, I think ANYONE would be particularly hurt by that. Am I alone in that opinion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by majorchamp 

I have to give it to you...you are very detailed :)

 

It's the timing, but as mentioned earlier, it's just the fact that he was paid by Tiger to do a particular job, invited into his private home/life and his expenses were taken care of, a place to stay, would have dinners with Tiger's family, and because he had "memories" he felt it was ok to share the memories he had during those private stays, whether they were fact or just opinion based on his observations. Point being, I think its disrespectful and unprofessional what he did because that 2% as everyone keeps saying is "enough" to dirty the book up merely for more sales which downgrades its quality and purpose.

 

I will keep falling back on the opinion that if you apply yourself, as a person, into this situation and a friend wrote a book about you without even notifying you in advance, or that this friend was collecting details of your life to include in a future book without your knowledge, I think ANYONE would be particularly hurt by that. Am I alone in that opinion?
 

You're definitely not alone in that opinion; that seems to be the majority opinion here, and in fact is also my opinion.

I just think that most of the judgment here has been unsupported by the details of what is in the book, and you're right--I live on those details.  (FWIW I'm a lawyer and manage a prosecution shop, so that's kinda how I think.)  People may have made those judgments based on details, but only in the last few pages have I seen anyone post what specific parts of the book they feel are the "details" that were obtained from a private interaction and then published in the book.

My reading of the excerpts, which seem to contain all of the "sewage", is that there isn't really that much there in terms of "detail" that HH observed during those private moments.  A lot of speculation on Hank's part, but very little of "I saw this..." or "I heard Tiger/Elin say...".  I also agree that there shouldn't be any of those private details in the book--and one such detail makes HH a jackass. 

This is the only look we have into Tiger's fall, so I think the subject is important and the book still has merit.  I do not agree with the argument that HH had no right to write any book just because he was paid to be a swing coach.  Contracts have terms which can be negotiated, and I'm sure Tiger's lawyers were better than Hank's.  Hank was only paid $50k/year for his services; a paltry sum, and I strongly suspect that, at negotiations, Tiger's people pointed out to Hank's people that he would be able to make piles of cash from other sources just because he's Tiger's coach.  Of course, that wouldn't give him the right to write private things about Tiger's family which he only knew because he had unique access to Tiger's home.

As to the "sewage", again, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate because I think if HH is going to be vilified, it should be based on a fair discussion of what is actually in the book.

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-troop 

You're definitely not alone in that opinion; that seems to be the majority opinion here, and in fact is also my opinion.

 

I just think that most of the judgment here has been unsupported by the details of what is in the book, and you're right--I live on those details.  (FWIW I'm a lawyer and manage a prosecution shop, so that's kinda how I think.)  People may have made those judgments based on details, but only in the last few pages have I seen anyone post what specific parts of the book they feel are the "details" that were obtained from a private interaction and then published in the book.

 

My reading of the excerpts, which seem to contain all of the "sewage", is that there isn't really that much there in terms of "detail" that HH observed during those private moments.  A lot of speculation on Hank's part, but very little of "I saw this..." or "I heard Tiger/Elin say...".  I also agree that there shouldn't be any of those private details in the book--and one such detail makes HH a jackass.  However, this is the only look we have into Tiger's fall, so I think the subject is important and the book still has merit.

 

And again, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate because I think if HH is going to be vilified, it should be based on a fair discussion of what is actually in the book.

 

I am going to fall into a trap here..as in (well majorchamp read the book)...but of the "leaks" that came out...the "sewage" is there more context/content surrounding what the leaks stated, or are the leaks the gist of the bad stuff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by majorchamp 

I am going to fall into a trap here..as in (well majorchamp read the book)...but of the "leaks" that came out...the "sewage" is there more context/content surrounding what the leaks stated, or are the leaks the gist of the bad stuff?

 

I won't say that you need to read the book--but I definitely do!!  I haven't had time to get to a bookstore, so I can't answer that.  From those that have read it and posted about the "rest of the story," it seems that the excerpts are it.  And I have read those.

And earlier you said that discussing with me is a useless circle because we won't convince each other.  Well, it may be a circle, but I wouldn't call it useless.  This forum would be pretty useless if someone posted a comment, then 50 people clicked "thumbs up" and just agreed with it.  The discussion is the whole point.  Thanks for having the discussion instead of getting bent and calling me names. 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-troop 

Again, does anyone want to talk about what's actually in the book?  Someone who has actually read it?  Or are we just going to continue making vague generalizations and demonizing HH based on opinions (mostly negative) about the book that are presented in this forum.

Nah, I say let's just demonize Haney.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas 

 

Nah. Tiger is in Butch's new DVD, but because it's entirely about golf and doesn't contain unsubstantiated hearsay and gossip about his personal life, nobody's said a thing about it.

 

If Hank had written a book solely about golf-related things, and not tried to justify things like "Tiger's mental state regarding sharing his popsicles speaks to his play on the course" then people would have a whole lot less to say about it.

 

People I trust who've read it say the book is 10x as revealing of Hank's deep-seated insecurities than it is of Tiger's "mental state."

That also comes through in his interviews in his lame attempts to defend his actions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill 

 

Agreed. When I first heard Haney defend the gossip in his book by saying they were his memories too, I lost what little respect I still might have had for him.  I have memories of seeing some of my closest friends do things they're embarrassed about... I have memories of them confiding things to me they would never want complete strangers to know... By Hank's logic, it's perfectly fine for me to write a book about my friends' secrets and embarrassing moments simply because "they're my memories too".

 

The other 99% of the book could be pure as the driven snow, but the 1% gossip is what makes it unethical.  And everyone knows it's the gossip that's going to sell the book - that's why the gossip was what was pre-released.

And was the hearsay report of how Tiger got injured one of Hank's memories? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by k-troop 

 

It would be really nice if I had read the book so I could cite things from the actual book, BTW.  But that's how I would analyze it.

So wait, after all of your criticism of people being critical who haven't read the book and your posturing and defense of Haney YOU haven't read the book YOURSELF? . 

Too too funny

Quote:

Originally Posted by brocks 

A month or so ago, you were posting about how Tiger is a lowlife, liar, etc., etc. I kind of doubt that you are a close personal friend of his, so I assume that you base your judgement on the excerpts in the press and tabloids that report about 2% of his life where he screwed up, and not about all the millions he's donated to charity, the work ethic that made him a champion, etc.
Now you've made about a dozen posts in the last few days saying, "PEOPLE, YOU CAN'T JUDGE A BOOK BY THE 2% THAT'S BEEN EXCERPTED!"
Just sayin.

Well, I can see what your trying to say but there is a difference between what transpired circa 2009 and beyond and is now generally know to be pretty factual (is anyone disputing it?) and the things that HH wrote from personal, first-hand experience.

To be honest, the bits that got 'leaked' a few weeks ago are pretty much 'quick-eyebrow-raise-and-move-on-with-the-story' - the actual golf parts of the book Im more interested in.

Tiger becoming a popsicle-waving-Poutler-bashing-waitress-nailing-kick-ass-Navy-SEAL is a mere bagatelle!