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Sean Foley's Teaching - Page 2

post #19 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

How many of Sean Foley's thoughts will fit on the head of a pin?

 


How many pinheads did it take to write that one?

 

post #20 of 36

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiolefty View Post

How many pinheads did it take to write that one?


If you've never heard the phrase about the number of angels that fit on the head of a pin, then I can understand the confusion.

 

If you have, then you're just being rude.

post #21 of 36

Who cares it's all basically the same information just repackaged to make a buck.  stack and tilt, foley, blah blah blah.  All of them have an instructional DVD. It's like star wars re releasing a movie every couple years.

post #22 of 36

Swing gurus, in general, get too much credit for their pro tour students' success, and too much blame for their failures. What Foley does/did with Woods, Mahan or O'Hair has no bearing on any of us. Leadbetter rode Faldo's success, but it was Faldo who made the shots in competition. Harmon and Haney never swung the club for Woods. Harmon doesn't swing it today for Mickelson or Dustin Johnson. And if Wi wins at Pebble Beach, does that somehow validate Stack & Tilt instruction more than if he blows up and finishes 23rd? Of course not. IMO, far too much importance is attached to these "teachers" at the top level. 

 

There are bunches of swing theories out there, but in the end it is the golfer who has to take the club back and hit the shot.  And, more importantly, has to make the putts (Maybe we should give all the credit to Pelz/Sones/Stockton/Utley/Mangum when someone wins)!

post #23 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by poser View Post

Who cares it's all basically the same information just repackaged to make a buck.  stack and tilt, foley, blah blah blah.  All of them have an instructional DVD. It's like star wars re releasing a movie every couple years.



I totally agree. Reminds me of how religions have evolved over the years. A group of people suddenly stop believing in one aspect of The Bible (The Golfing Machine?) and start their own sect calling it something different. Then over time, people within that new sect start departing to form other sects. The information is still coming from the same source but interpreted differently.

 

The Golf Evolution had better get the 5 Simple Keys out quick as I'm sure somebody, somewhere is already disagreeing with one of them and coming up with his own version called the 4 Correct Keys! OK, that last comment was very tongue in cheek but I think the guys at Golf Evolution will understand where the paying customer is coming from.

 

post #24 of 36

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

Swing gurus, in general, get too much credit for their pro tour students' success, and too much blame for their failures. What Foley does/did with Woods, Mahan or O'Hair has no bearing on any of us. Leadbetter rode Faldo's success, but it was Faldo who made the shots in competition. Harmon and Haney never swung the club for Woods. Harmon doesn't swing it today for Mickelson or Dustin Johnson. And if Wi wins at Pebble Beach, does that somehow validate Stack & Tilt instruction more than if he blows up and finishes 23rd? Of course not. IMO, far too much importance is attached to these "teachers" at the top level.


I tend to agree with that. But the media and the general golfer seem to care.

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

There are bunches of swing theories out there, but in the end it is the golfer who has to take the club back and hit the shot.  And, more importantly, has to make the putts (Maybe we should give all the credit to Pelz/Sones/Stockton/Utley/Mangum when someone wins)!

 

Putting instructors get a fair bit more fame than they should, too, IMO. We've heard a LOT about Dave Stockton lately. Consider Rory's putting at the U.S. Open. Putting didn't even win the tournament for him - he struck the ball really well and didn't collapse on Sunday.

 

MoneyGolf teaches us that "drive for show, putt for dough" isn't quite accurate. Pros who win make up more shots with the full swing than putting. There are outliers, but on average, the "shots" matter more than the "putts."

post #25 of 36

Foley - he must be a better instructor than his DVD indicates. Apparently, he is good at figuring out what "pieces" work for a player.

post #26 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

Swing gurus, in general, get too much credit for their pro tour students' success, and too much blame for their failures. What Foley does/did with Woods, Mahan or O'Hair has no bearing on any of us.



Yeah, for the most part you are right. It is just that Foley took such a beating in the beginning when Tiger wasn't seeming to get that much better, that when Tiger does start to "get it" he should be able to get some of the credit. 

 

post #27 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchepp View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

Swing gurus, in general, get too much credit for their pro tour students' success, and too much blame for their failures. What Foley does/did with Woods, Mahan or O'Hair has no bearing on any of us.



Yeah, for the most part you are right. It is just that Foley took such a beating in the beginning when Tiger wasn't seeming to get that much better, that when Tiger does start to "get it" he should be able to get some of the credit. 

 



That's true and maybe people would cut him some slack if he'd just waited to put out his POS (based on several credible TST reviews). Whether his instructional DVD is any good or not it seem to be cashing in on his new association with Tiger. And those pieces in Golf Digest - especially the profile where he tries to be a DJ / life coach / poet - it'll probably be best if I don't give my opinion on those.


Edited by sean_miller - 2/12/12 at 1:01pm
post #28 of 36

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

That's true and maybe people would cut him some slack if he'd just waited to put out his POS (based on several credible TST reviews). Whether his instructional DVD is any good or not it seem to be cashing in on his new association with Tiger. And those pieces in Golf Digest - especially the profile where he tries to be a DJ / life coach / poet - it'll probably be best if I don't give my opinion on those.


I think his DVD was lousy regardless of when he released it, and despite what some people thought, I wanted it to be good. I know what Sean Foley teaches and he was going to teach it to Tiger Woods. That was a good thing as far as I was concerned. I may have been harsher on him than I should have been in my review, but that's because I knew (or thought I knew) that he knew things better than he was able to "articulate" in the DVD. I put "articulate" in quotes because his articulation was one of the poorer aspects.

 

In other words, it wasn't so much the timing of the DVD's release, it was the fact that it seemed rushed. Run-on sentences, drills with little to no explanation of who should do them or for what purpose, and a bunch of vague, seemingly random words didn't help Foley to get his message across nearly as clearly as he could have with some editing.

 

The life coach stuff, hey, whatever. I don't worry about that BS because I don't care. It's his thoughts on the golf swing that interest me, not his thoughts on genocide or solving hunger or being a good man or whatever.

post #29 of 36

The biggest difference i see between the two is that Foley seems to like to stand up in the finish where as SnT likes to keep the spine inclination, the belt buckle goes up and forward, and the head stays close to where it was in the rest of the swing.  I'm sure there are a lot more differences in the pattern...as well as a different way of teaching all of the pieces of the swing but that is the one i notice most just by watching.

post #30 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

That's true and maybe people would cut him some slack if he'd just waited to put out his POS (based on several credible TST reviews). Whether his instructional DVD is any good or not it seem to be cashing in on his new association with Tiger. And those pieces in Golf Digest - especially the profile where he tries to be a DJ / life coach / poet - it'll probably be best if I don't give my opinion on those.


I think his DVD was lousy regardless of when he released it, and despite what some people thought, I wanted it to be good. I know what Sean Foley teaches and he was going to teach it to Tiger Woods. That was a good thing as far as I was concerned. I may have been harsher on him than I should have been in my review, but that's because I knew (or thought I knew) that he knew things better than he was able to "articulate" in the DVD. I put "articulate" in quotes because his articulation was one of the poorer aspects.

 

In other words, it wasn't so much the timing of the DVD's release, it was the fact that it seemed rushed. Run-on sentences, drills with little to no explanation of who should do them or for what purpose, and a bunch of vague, seemingly random words didn't help Foley to get his message across nearly as clearly as he could have with some editing.

 

The life coach stuff, hey, whatever. I don't worry about that BS because I don't care. It's his thoughts on the golf swing that interest me, not his thoughts on genocide or solving hunger or being a good man or whatever.



I meant it seemed rushed in order to coincide with news of his coaching Tiger. As if the entire process (conception to release) was too rushed. It did him a disservice and that's all I have. Didn't mean to hijack this thread from people more familiar with his actual teaching.

post #31 of 36

I don't know about Foley.

 

Tiger's swing is a fade and his divots are carpet-like.

 

Maybe Foley is not all that...

 

The putter and/or the read is way off... Tiger fades from view....

post #32 of 36

The DVD is extremely bland.  I own it and was incredibly disappointed.

Foley definitely learned from Mike and Andy

Mike Andy and Foley both learned from Mac

As far how much someone learns from another I see that to be extremely difficult to measure.

 

Even for myself, it would be impossible for me to quantify how much I learned from another

post #33 of 36

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 


If you've never heard the phrase about the number of angels that fit on the head of a pin, then I can understand the confusion.

 

If you have, then you're just being rude

 

I guess I'm just being rude (even though I was kidding around). Hooray!

post #34 of 36

Eric - Where is Foley failing with Tiger? The Backswing doesn't look bad, but it is long

 

Coming down ... the arms seem too far from the body and hips stay too level.

post #35 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

Swing gurus, in general, get too much credit for their pro tour students' success, and too much blame for their failures. What Foley does/did with Woods, Mahan or O'Hair has no bearing on any of us. Leadbetter rode Faldo's success, but it was Faldo who made the shots in competition. Harmon and Haney never swung the club for Woods. Harmon doesn't swing it today for Mickelson or Dustin Johnson. And if Wi wins at Pebble Beach, does that somehow validate Stack & Tilt instruction more than if he blows up and finishes 23rd? Of course not. IMO, far too much importance is attached to these "teachers" at the top level. 

 

There are bunches of swing theories out there, but in the end it is the golfer who has to take the club back and hit the shot.  And, more importantly, has to make the putts (Maybe we should give all the credit to Pelz/Sones/Stockton/Utley/Mangum when someone wins)!



 

Every part of the game counts. The full swing, short game, and putting. You need all of it to win.

 

 

post #36 of 36

I am by no means an expert on Foley and Stack and Tilt and have the the Foley DVD's and the Stack and Tilt DVD's and book.   I tried out Stack and Tilt last year for several months, didn't stick with it because I didn't like parts of the swing, but by trying the swing out it improved my ball striking in some aspects, particularly for some reason, fairway woods, and probably driving accuracy too.  It made me realize the importance of where the weight needs to be at impact for good ball striking.  The reason why I got into Stack and Tilt in the first place was because as I got older it became more difficult to get the weight over to the front leg at impact and Stack and Tilt helped me with that aspect quite a bit.  

 

I am not trying to learn Foley's method.  He shares some principles with Stack and Tilt for sure but yet I think his swing isn't Stack and Tilt.   His takeaway is different as is his finish, quite a bit different in some respects.  His left shoulder gets down in the backswing, but not as fast as in Stack and Tilt.   Foley starts the swing with the clubhead, hands and arms follow, then upper body and hips, a Right Forearm Takeaway according to at least some experts..   I don't think his hips get as tilted as in Stack and Tilt because if I am thinking correctly, in Stack and Tilt the left shoulder starts to come down straight away.   This causes different things to happen from that point on.   Definitely some similarities between Foley and Stack and Tilt but the modern teachings seem to agree with both in some ways too.  

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