Originally Posted by iacas
The same way you can ask him if his ball moved when you think you saw it move from 50 yards away. :D
Golfers in tournaments don't text on their phones during their rounds. They turn them off and put them away. I wouldn't call it "clearly" okay, because accidentally using any of the illegal functions would be a violation of the Rules as well, and reasonably smart golfers in tournaments don't want to give themselves the opportunity to accidentally click "Weatherbug" instead of "Messages." Not to mention that it's probably a violation of etiquette to be texting mid-tournament, and violations of etiquette can result in being DQed.
Look, you may not like the rule, but I think it's written pretty clearly. The DMD rule isn't a smart phone rule, it's a DMD rule. Want to use your phone as a DMD? It needs to conform (odds are it doesn't). The USGA can't disallow cell phones for the same reason they can't disallow, I dunno, a defibrillator, or a motorized golf cart, or a watch, or a Nintendo DS that you bring along to pass the time on the tee boxes waiting for the slow guys in front of you, or an electric razor so you can shave on the 18th tee, or your car keys, or a walkie talkie you have to check on your kids because you live on the golf course, etc. They can't ban ALL technology.
They can ban you from using a DMD that has functionality that would violate the rules (whether you access it or not, whether it's "disabled" or not). They can't ban you from using your phone. They can say it's a violation to text your coach to ask for input for your thin shots that day.
Pretty cut and dry really.
P.S. I can only speculate as to what the USGA is trying to do, but I think I've applied Occam's Razor pretty well in taking the simplest answer as the correct one. DMDs with other features = illegal. Any other technology that isn't affecting golf = legal (watches, phones, electric razors). Violating the rules in any way (looking on your phone at the compass, nudging your ball) = illegal. Whether you like it or not, or agree with it or not, if you're using your phone as a DMD, it's almost certainly illegal, and if we were playing a tournament together, I'd be pointing that out to you before you teed off on the first hole. I'd also happily let you use my laser rangefinder (with no slope capability at all). :)
P.P.S. Quote me, ask me questions, or respond to me if you'd like, but I'm finding myself repeating things again, so I'm out.
Can you get it through your head that I don't care about tournaments?? That I, and most serious golfers, play as much by the rules in their non-tournament rounds as you do during tournament rounds? And it is crazy on your part to say just ignore the rules unless you're playing in a tournament. That certainly cannot be the USGA or R&A's intent - to make golfers into cheaters in all but tournament rounds. That is a fine way to build respect for and compliance with the rules </sarcasm>. And yet, as you say, you just keep repeating yourself on this point.
You can say it is a DMD issue all you like, but the fact is that if you are carrying a smartphone during a round you are carrying features and capabilities that are non-conforming. Your silly diatribe about "a defibrillator, or a motorized golf cart, or a watch, or a Nintendo DS that you bring along to pass the time on the tee boxes waiting for the slow guys in front of you, or an electric razor so you can shave on the 18th tee, or your car keys, or a walkie talkie" is ridiculous because none of those things has anything to do with playing golf. They are ancillary to the process. They have no features that could be deemed non-conforming, while phones do. So the situation is not analogous at all.
And it is just as easy for me to say, "then get a dumbphone to use when you are playing golf", if you want to allow phone calls and texting, as it is for you to say "get a dedicated GPS". The fact is that I have BOTH a smartphone with a DMD and a dedicated GS and I like the smartphone app better. But for a lot of guys who don't have a dedicated GPS but who already have a smartphone, being able to download a free DMD provides them with a capability on which they might not wish to spend $100 or more. I'm fine with you metaphorically playing expensive golf balls. I'm not fine with the USGA telling folks they can't play with cheap golf balls when there is no practical reason for it.
As far as your comment "The same way you can ask him if his ball moved when you think you saw it move from 50 yards away." you are just being a cynical smart@ss again. Because that goes against YOUR OWN argument that all forms of cheating must be observable by your fellow competitors. So I give you some examples where that is not the case and you come back with this. When the fact is that if someone is going to cheat in the first place they are not going to answer honestly when you ask that question.
I have a Droid X2 and I have no idea if it has a compass built in. I know that when I run Swing by Swing, my DMD APP, it doesn't show anything that would be non-conforming. It doesn't show direction, weather conditions, wind speed, slope, etc. If I pull up a separate map APP, that might show directions. But is that evidence of a built in compass or is it getting that information through GPS from the satellite? I don't know. And is there ANY functional difference either way? And if it is getting that information from the satellite I don't really see it as any different from using a browser to get weather information. And according to the statement previously posted here, while doing so is illegal, having the capability to do so does not make use of the DMD non-conforming. So if I can have the capability of getting weather info from an outside source through a browser and be OK so long as I don't actually do it, it seems to me that having the capability of getting true North through a map APP from an outside source should also be OK so long as I don't actually do it.
And BTW, the reason you keep repeating yourself is that you don't actually address the issues being raised , you just keep saying the same thing over and over, or make a smart@ss comment, hence you are repeating yourself.
Cheating is illegal. If they are going to try to continue this line of making it illegal to have the capability of cheating, as seems to be the case with DMDs and smartphones, then this is a very arbitrary area. You scoffed at my suggestion that their "logic" could dictate that carrying a watch should be illegal since it can be used to directly measure where thue North is, but you didn't refute it. How is having a watch any more non-conforming than having a built-in compass in a smartphone that is not accessed by the DMD? It is not by any reasoned approach, it is just by fiat. If they are going to truly go in and try to make anything illegal that COULD BE used to cheat whether or not it actually IS used for cheating then they are going to have to eliminate an awful lot of things.
I know that. The Rules also allow you to write down the score you'd have "likely" made during handicap rounds. They're not entirely the same, and people don't treat them the same.
So are you saying that because the Rules allow deviations between your real score and your score for handicap purposes, that gives free reign to ignore the DMD rules in non-tournament rounds? Surely you realize that writing down the "likely" score is in accordance with the rules and using a non-conforming DMD is not in accordance with the rules. You seem to evince a very casual attitude towards the rules in all but tournament rounds.