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Feherty Packing Heat - Page 6

post #91 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

 

Ask yourself this:  If you were concerned enough about your neighborhood that you volunteered for Neighborhood Watch, then saw an unknown person walking alone at night in an area where burglaries had occurred recently, wouldn't you want to know what he was up to? And once you called police, knowing they may or may not respond, wouldn't you keep an eye on that unknown person?

 

I recall reading a partial statement from Zimmerman where he said he was in fact returning to his vehicle when Martin came from behind and blindsided him with the punch that knocked him to the ground.  Of course, this may or may not be true, but what if it is? That's why the case for murder will be so hard to prove.

No - hope I don't have an over-inflated ego. When a professionally trained individual asks me to do something in a potentially dangerous situation, I would do it, even if it is against my judgment. In the dark with a gun, I will attempt to avoid a dangerous situation - death versus burglary - with the police coming, think I'll back off. What do you think?

post #92 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

 

Ask yourself this:  If you were concerned enough about your neighborhood that you volunteered for Neighborhood Watch, then saw an unknown person walking alone at night in an area where burglaries had occurred recently, wouldn't you want to know what he was up to? And once you called police, knowing they may or may not respond, wouldn't you keep an eye on that unknown person?

 

I recall reading a partial statement from Zimmerman where he said he was in fact returning to his vehicle when Martin came from behind and blindsided him with the punch that knocked him to the ground.  Of course, this may or may not be true, but what if it is? That's why the case for murder will be so hard to prove.

but what constitutes to being suspicious? the fact it was night,......the fact he had his hood up,......the fact he was black? i fail to see your point,....from the recordings of the 911 call ive heard of zimmerman reporting trayvon to police, he says he is looking shifty and up to no good,.....yet doesnt explain it further? was trayvon looking into car windows, scoping out houses,....or jsut happened to be walking the sidewalk on his way home?

 

until we get the full picture(if that ever happens) then i dont think we can say either way,....

post #93 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post

No - hope I don't have an over-inflated ego. When a professionally trained individual asks me to do something in a potentially dangerous situation, I would do it, even if it is against my judgment. In the dark with a gun, I will attempt to avoid a dangerous situation - death versus burglary - with the police coming, think I'll back off. What do you think?


Well, I wouldn't necessarily consider a dispatch operator to be professionally trained in police tactics. If I recall the 911 recording, she said something like "you don't need to do that" when Zimmerman said he was going to follow Martin.  She didn't say "do not follow him". And there was no assurance that the police were going to arrive anytime soon.

 

Who knows what Zimmerman might have been thinking? I doubt he anticipated any outcome like what occurred. Besides the two options you mentioned (death versus burglary) I would speculate that Zimmerman's anticipated option was "I'll keep this guy in my sights, and when the police arrive I'll tell them where he is and they will handle it". Unfortunately, it didn't turn out that way.

post #94 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpediem4300 View Post

but what constitutes to being suspicious? the fact it was night,......the fact he had his hood up,......the fact he was black? i fail to see your point,....from the recordings of the 911 call ive heard of zimmerman reporting trayvon to police, he says he is looking shifty and up to no good,.....yet doesnt explain it further? was trayvon looking into car windows, scoping out houses,....or jsut happened to be walking the sidewalk on his way home?

 

until we get the full picture(if that ever happens) then i dont think we can say either way,....


Are you really asking whether Zimmerman "profiled" Martin? I don't know. Maybe every young person out alone at night looked suspicious to a Neighborhood Watch guy, and warranted his attention.

 

I could be very wrong here, but I recall seeing a map of the area, and the most direct route from the convenience store to the house where Martin was staying (as you recall, he was on a 2-week suspension from a Miami area high school) was not along a sidewalk, but ran along the back of some of the houses. Again, I have no idea what path he may actually have been taking at the time, nor where he was when Zimmerman first saw him.

post #95 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapanda View Post

 

You might want to delete this post.

 

Because what you're saying is that there is no way of knowing whether someone committed a crime or not.

Not in the least am I saying that. I pointed out that there are many people who have automatically acquitted Martin and convicted Zimmerman based on pretty much no information other than what the boob-tube has spewed out. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion based on what we've heard so far about the case, but it's premature for any of us to declare either participant guilty or innocent.

post #96 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpediem4300 View Post

Back on topic,..

*You* asked about ammo. a1_smile.gif I know a LOT about ammo.

post #97 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post


Are you really asking whether Zimmerman "profiled" Martin? I don't know. Maybe every young person out alone at night looked suspicious to a Neighborhood Watch guy, and warranted his attention.

 

I could be very wrong here, but I recall seeing a map of the area, and the most direct route from the convenience store to the house where Martin was staying (as you recall, he was on a 2-week suspension from a Miami area high school) was not along a sidewalk, but ran along the back of some of the houses. Again, I have no idea what path he may actually have been taking at the time, nor where he was when Zimmerman first saw him.

profiling a person wether done intentionally or not is the first thing you do when you see someone,...

 

hmmm if he was behind houses then it would perhaps look like he was scoping them out,....but zimmerman should of known it to be a shortcut route to the store?

 

as i said and as Jcoop said above, we only know what the media have told us,...the truth may never be known, especially as the other key witness happens to be dead

 

I wonder if the scene was given full forensics even though zimmerman wa soriginally not arrested as it was "self defence",....

 

ill be interested to see what happens either way and how the case unfolds

post #98 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCoop View Post

*You* asked about ammo. a1_smile.gif I know a LOT about ammo.

haha that was referring to Erik not yourself,....i did indeed ask,

 

i asked about the ammo as the movies/csi programmes tend to distort the truth for climactic effect lol

post #99 of 148

The part about being blind sided is out of date as far as I know.  The most consistant story I have seen has been they had words, Zimmerman reached for a cell phone, Martin then punched Zimmerman. Seems like a pretty believable set of events to me. There is some question of when the words happened. Some have Martin approaching Zimmerman while returning to his truck. Others have it when he chased Martin around a townhouse. Heck both of those could be true. Maybe zimmerman walked around a townhouse to get back to his truck.

 

The questions then become is punching a guy that is going for his gun (there is no way you can tell if it is a cell phone or a gun in the dark in the tenths of a second you have) reasonable?  Is chasing someone through a neighborhood reasonable?  If Zimmerman wasn't carrying, how does this story end? Did Zimmerman's gun save his life or kill an innocent person? I am going to go with  Yes, No, there is no story, and both.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

 

Ask yourself this:  If you were concerned enough about your neighborhood that you volunteered for Neighborhood Watch, then saw an unknown person walking alone at night in an area where burglaries had occurred recently, wouldn't you want to know what he was up to? And once you called police, knowing they may or may not respond, wouldn't you keep an eye on that unknown person?

 

I recall reading a partial statement from Zimmerman where he said he was in fact returning to his vehicle when Martin came from behind and blindsided him with the punch that knocked him to the ground.  Of course, this may or may not be true, but what if it is? That's why the case for murder will be so hard to prove.

post #100 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post


Well, I wouldn't necessarily consider a dispatch operator to be professionally trained in police tactics. If I recall the 911 recording, she said something like "you don't need to do that" when Zimmerman said he was going to follow Martin.  She didn't say "do not follow him". And there was no assurance that the police were going to arrive anytime soon.

 

Who knows what Zimmerman might have been thinking? I doubt he anticipated any outcome like what occurred. Besides the two options you mentioned (death versus burglary) I would speculate that Zimmerman's anticipated option was "I'll keep this guy in my sights, and when the police arrive I'll tell them where he is and they will handle it". Unfortunately, it didn't turn out that way.

Now you're making things up to win. Put your ego away.

 

Let me put it this way again.

 

It's dark, you have a gun, you are putting yourself into a potentially violent situation, the police are coming, the 911 operator "suggests" you not follow the guy. You're balancing death v. burglary - your death or you might kill someone - they  might sneak up on you and cause ... a scuffle where someone might be killed.


Why?

 

Because of your ego.

 

And if you do not anticipate what may happen - then you should not be packing a gun. You apparently aren't sufficiently intelligent to do so if you can not anticipate what may happen.

 

Screw it -- if you're packing, I don't want to be walking in your neighborhood. Too many guys with too many hormones.

post #101 of 148

maybe we should carry taser guns instead... paralysis is enough for police to show up, I think.  Even if you have to use more than one.

post #102 of 148

Are you kidding? Then the criminal will be alive to testify against you. Better off eliminating witnessesb1_ohmy.gif More seriously I would love to see any stats on usage of tasers/stun guns to prevent crime. I can see bad things (if people think they are none lethal they are more likely to pull the trigger) and good (they are nonlethal. Hard to commit suicide with one).

Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyk View Post

maybe we should carry taser guns instead... paralysis is enough for police to show up, I think.  Even if you have to use more than one.

post #103 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

I don't follow your reasoning. Are you saying that Zimmerman should not have even talked to Martin, solely because he was carrying a gun? How could he have known that this would lead to a shooting? By your reasoning, anyone who has a CCW should not interact with anyone, because a violent confrontation may occur, and you may have to shoot someone.  That doesn't make sense.

 

Living in Orlando, we get daily doses of the case.  As more evidence has been released by the prosecution, a clearer picture starts to emerge.  However, Zimmerman's statements to police have not been fully released yet.  Time will tell how much his statements coincide with the physical evidence.

I actually just went to my neighborhood watch meeting in January. A member of the police department was there to help us out and one of the things he stressed was NOT to confront anyone that you find suspicious. They suggested you call the police, take down any important information (description, license #, etc.) and then wait.

 

And yes when you are carrying a gun you must be vigilant in order to not put yourself in a situation like that. You cannot get into conflicts that might escalate into physical confrontations. You can't flip that guy off that cut you off in his car, you can't just go pop off to some guy that irritates you, and you cannot walk up to a strange person in your neighborhood and ask them why they are there.

Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post

 

Ask yourself this:  If you were concerned enough about your neighborhood that you volunteered for Neighborhood Watch, then saw an unknown person walking alone at night in an area where burglaries had occurred recently, wouldn't you want to know what he was up to? And once you called police, knowing they may or may not respond, wouldn't you keep an eye on that unknown person?

I am on the neighborhood watch, and I do just that, I WATCH! Yes I would keep an eye on that person, that is called watching. I would not however take it upon myself to follow this person nor confront them about their activities. I am not the police.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post

 

It's dark, you have a gun, you are putting yourself into a potentially violent situation, the police are coming, the 911 operator "suggests" you not follow the guy. You're balancing death v. burglary - your death or you might kill someone - they  might sneak up on you and cause ... a scuffle where someone might be killed.

 

And if you do not anticipate what may happen - then you should not be packing a gun. You apparently aren't sufficiently intelligent to do so if you can not anticipate what may happen.

 

As much as it pains me, I have to agree with Desmond on this one. One, Use of deadly force is NOT allowed to thwart a burglary only to thwart a physical attack upon a person. Second, you don't know if he's a burglar or not, you have not seen him do anything that was illegal. If you are not intelligent enough to see as a CCW holder that confronting this guy might turn really bad in a hurry you have absolutely no reason to be carrying a gun as you are more of a danger to society with it than without it, it's common sense.

 

One thing both gun rights and Anti gun people can agree on is we do not want stupid people out there running around with any type of weapon.

post #104 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post

I honestly don't think  (that he is being sarcastic) so based on things I've heard him say in other interviews and on his show. 

 

 

This quote doesn't give you a clue? You think he's being serious here?

 

If I'm out with my wife and daughter, or hear a bump in the night, I'll be ready. When I dial 9-1-1, I only need them to come and do clean up.

post #105 of 148

my dady's got a permit. He's a protective man with a wife and 5 kids. I know I'll be getiing one as soon as I can. Shoot up some bad guys. a2_wink.gif

post #106 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by NM Golf View Post

One, Use of deadly force is NOT allowed to thwart a burglary only to thwart a physical attack upon a person.

 

Legally that's not really the case. I'm not advocating shooting people (duh), but use of deadly force is authorized in many states when people are committing forcible felonies:

 

Quote:
776.08 Forcible felony.--"Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

 

Any and all CCW classes I've heard of advise against trying to insert yourself into such situations when nobody appears to be in imminent danger.

post #107 of 148

Based on all the reports it appears Martin recently smoked pot, which could have made him a bit paranoid and was walking around with a hoodie on that made him seem shady.   Sorry but if I see any teenager (regardless of color) walking alone through peoples yards wearing a hoodie that covers his face I'm thinking he's up to no good. 

 

Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch guy that thought he was cop.  In the end, the whole incident could have been avoided had Zimmerman followed the instructions he was given by the police.  Instead he followed Martin, made him so paranoid that Martin became the aggressor and Zimmerman pulled the trigger to save his himself from getting beat to death. 

 

Zimmerman can't claim self defense when he was the one that put his life at risk by failing to listen to the police so imo he deserves to go to jail for at least manslaughter.

post #108 of 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

Legally that's not really the case. I'm not advocating shooting people (duh), but use of deadly force is authorized in many states when people are committing forcible felonies:

 

Yes that is true, basically you can shoot someone if human lives are in danger or there is danger of someone causing great bodily harm. You just can't shoot someone who is stealing your car or burglarizing an empty home. No deadly force against property crime.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
Any and all CCW classes I've heard of advise against trying to insert yourself into such situations when nobody appears to be in imminent danger.

In fact they are adamant about this. In NM we must do class time and recertify every two years to keep our CCW. We hear that message each time repeatedly. You do not want to use deadly force for anything other than extreme circumstances. When you pull that gun you better know that its you or them that lives are in imminent danger, cause if you shoot someone and you cannot show that you will end up in prison.

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