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Jason Dufner's Waggle - Page 2

post #19 of 39

I think Robert Garrigus is a pretty good of example of someone being on the opposite side of float-loading.  

 

     - Look at Garrigus' swing here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqAlB-JcApw

 

     - Now check out Dufner's swing here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l55LB8oABvQ  

 

To really notice the big difference, look at how much more shoulder turn Dufner has than Garrigus at the middle of his backswing; Dufner already has a substantial shoulder turn when the club gets parallel to the ground, whereas Garrigus hasn't even gotten his shoulders to 45° at this point.  This is because Dufner's clubhead "floats" back to the top of his swing from the pulling force of his shoulder turn; however, Garrigus pulls the club back more with his arms, and his shoulders kinda play catchup and turn in response to his arms taking the club back behind him.

 

In my opinion, Dufner's move promotes a more consistent impact position because he is swinging with his big muscles instead of his small muscles.  Arms can be timed perfectly, but it's hard to do that on a regular basis.

post #20 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmccjm View Post

I think Robert Garrigus is a pretty good of example of someone being on the opposite side of float-loading.  

 

     - Look at Garrigus' swing here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqAlB-JcApw

 

     - Now check out Dufner's swing here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l55LB8oABvQ  

 

To really notice the big difference, look at how much more shoulder turn Dufner has than Garrigus at the middle of his backswing; Dufner already has a substantial shoulder turn when the club gets parallel to the ground, whereas Garrigus hasn't even gotten his shoulders to 45° at this point.  This is because Dufner's clubhead "floats" back to the top of his swing from the pulling force of his shoulder turn; however, Garrigus pulls the club back more with his arms, and his shoulders kinda play catchup and turn in response to his arms taking the club back behind him.

 

In my opinion, Dufner's move promotes a more consistent impact position because he is swinging with his big muscles instead of his small muscles.  Arms can be timed perfectly, but it's hard to do that on a regular basis.

 

I'd like to believe you since I've been accused of float loading and my longer clubs are my most consistent . . . but is Dufner yanking his drive into the trees in that video or is he hitting a big fade?

post #21 of 39

Neither.  I believe that hole bends left and he is just cutting a little off the corner with a fairway wood.  Look in the back left corner and you can see some fans standing around the bend along the fairway where he's aiming.

 

As far as my thoughts about float-loading, I like it as long as it's not overdone.  That is, using your shoulder turn to take the club back is great; however, it's important to stay balanced at all times and avoid getting sloppy.  I like to focus on a deep shoulder turn and my arms seem to react naturally.

post #22 of 39

I dig Duffy and his Ben Hogan style he brings to the table... He gave me a great tip in a interview.... He was asked what was he working on and he commented on about burning his left pocket with his left hand on his downswing was something, basically clearing the hips and swinging to the left......ended up a swing thought that stuck with me all season and feels great clearing out on shots... great sound and great tip

post #23 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

I'd like to believe you since I've been accused of float loading and my longer clubs are my most consistent . . . but is Dufner yanking his drive into the trees in that video or is he hitting a big fade?

 

Not even a big fade. You've watched enough golf to know the camera distorts things.

 

 

post #24 of 39

One of the things that I am always seeing with my students is being overwhelmed with far to much technical information. I love it that youtube has thousands of great swing from tour players, and from all views as well. Look at Luke Donald's swing, or (Tigers Perfect Swing). It clearly demonstrates every aspect of the swing in a fluid and progressive motion. If the swing is broken down into stations - progressive positions, one can simply practice each part of the swing, then put them together in a natural and flowing way. The problem people have is that their minds get in the way. Like driving a car, or riding a bicycle, quit thinking about it so much and just let it go. Look at Jim Furyk's swing. You'd never teach someone to swing in such a way. However, he seems to be doing pretty good. It's all about meeting the basic fundamentals at the right time. We have to remember that it's all about working with the laws of nature. If we don't, they punish us. My point in all of this is, don't get too caught up in fitting into a mold. We're all built different in some ways. Find a swing that is consistent and then tweek it. Just make sure that it is comfortable. I was reading the entries about Jason Duffner's waggle. The idea is to relieve pressure from the arms and achieve fluidity. It's also to reassure the hands on which fingers are controlling the club. The thing to remember is, The forward hand, being the dominent hand, holds the club in the last three fingers, and the rear hand holds the club in the middle and next to pimky finger. The waggle reassures the hands that these are the fingers holding the club. The other fingers merely fold onto the club in the correct sequence. The waggle is supposed to be in the direction that the club will cock in the backswing. The waggle is also designed to keep the body in motion. When someone gets over the ball and just stops, they completely loose their rhythm. Keeping in motion also tends to help in the issue of balance.

Christopher Warner

Master Teaching Professional  

post #25 of 39
Thread Starter 

Some good video was just uploaded by Terry.  Finally some good caddy view of Dufner with an iron.  Can see the slight palmar flexion (bow) in the right wrist on the takeaway.

 

 

post #26 of 39
Mike, seems to me he is setting his pitch elbow very early. His right elbow path is very low even at A4. Almost a pre-set pitch. Any thoughts on this?
post #27 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchepp View Post

Mike, seems to me he is setting his pitch elbow very early. His right elbow path is very low even at A4. Almost a pre-set pitch. Any thoughts on this?

 

Yes agree.  Dufner works with Chuck Hogan and from what I've heard model the swing after Ben Hogan.  Lots of similar pieces in the back swing.  Some floating loading (delaying right wrist bend) on the start of the takeaway and then right into super pitch (external rotation of right elbow).  I say "super" because it's rare to see a right elbow that much below the left at A3.  Like I said in the first post, just think it's interesting that he makes 4-7 long waggles and the takeaway is the complete opposite.

 

I like his swing, really efficient, repeatable and fits his style.  But wouldn't recommend trying to copy, pretty tough to externally rotate that much and there really isn't an advantage.

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post #28 of 39

Wow, great comparison pictures Mike!  I think you could almost overlay them onto one another and not see a lot of difference.

post #29 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by glock35ipsc View Post

Wow, great comparison pictures Mike!  I think you could almost overlay them onto one another and not see a lot of difference.

 

Dufner clearly has a bigger gut.

 

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Anyway, look at the right elbow in the last photo: it's even MORE pitchy than Hogan's. Hogan would GO pitchy from there, but Jason's already there, SOMEHOW. Very difficult to do and it feels kinda weird...

post #30 of 39

You left out the "chew" in the cheek versus cigarette or pipe too!  Hogan doesn't have it in these pictures, but there is a 50% chance Dufner has chew.

 

Both of them must have excellent external rotator cuff flexibility to have this position that far back in the swing.  This is an overlooked item in golf fitness.  I have spent two years increasing my flexibility in this area after shoulder surgery and it has helped immensely in getting my right elbow in the proper position on the downswing and club in the correct plane.

post #31 of 39

Dufner has another strange position that I noticed this week. His exit has the face closed down dramatically. This is strange position for a pro, most have the face open to the arc at this point, or at least square.

 

 

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post #32 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchepp View Post

Dufner has another strange position that I noticed this week. His exit has the face closed down dramatically. This is strange position for a pro, most have the face open to the arc at this point, or at least square.

 

I disagree that it's strange. In my studies most will keep the face relatively square to the plane (their chosen plane, that is, some are slightly left, some slightly right) for about a foot after impact, then roll heavily, particularly with the driver.

 

Robert Rock is in the minority... but even his clubface is ever so slightly "closed to the plane." Square to it would be a few degrees the other way.

post #33 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

I disagree that it's strange. In my studies most will keep the face relatively square to the plane (their chosen plane, that is, some are slightly left, some slightly right) for about a foot after impact, then roll heavily, particularly with the driver.

 

Robert Rock is in the minority... but even his clubface is ever so slightly "closed to the plane." Square to it would be a few degrees the other way.

Yeah, I guess as I look more you are right. Guys like Bradley/Stanley/Rock and some others are more the exception. 

 

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Would you say Dufner is more than most?

post #34 of 39

Alvaro Quiros is similar to Dufner.

post #35 of 39

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Dustin Johnson chosen because he's a guy that "holds off the face" (or he'll hit a snap hook).

 

You have to remember "square to the plane" is more at about 1 o'clock, not noon or 11 or so.

post #36 of 39

Yeah, he's one of the cool players. He's the reason I started my waggle.

 

Apart from that, I also enjoy when Bubba and Fowler fool around with him on the web.

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