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Ben Hogan Would Be Irrelevant Today - Page 9

post #145 of 164

Jason who?

post #146 of 164

Welcome to the forum @golfinglyyours . Sometimes these old threads pop up from time to time.  For this one, the original poster is long gone, so it is really not worth responding.

post #147 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vijay4LIFE View Post
 

 There are literally dozens of golfers who would be better ball strikers today than Ben Hogan. Go to the range at any NCAA event and you are bound to see a bunch of college kids that can hit it better than Hogan. more far, more accurate, period.

I would love to see NCAA kids hitting shots with the ACTUAL clubs Hogan used.  

 

 

 

 

You simply can't compare era's like that.  Yes, Hogan's advantage was that he was the best ball striker and was ahead of his time in many ways with regards to swing mechanics, etc.  That being said, if he started at a level playing field with modern players and modern equipment, why would you assume that someone like him wouldn't be the one to find an advantage one step beyond where we currently are?

 

Golf is still, by an large, a game of mental toughness.  By your logic a portly guys like Patrick Reed using a 43" driver shouldn't be competing against workout monsters like Dustin Johnson and guys like Bubba who hit it miles.  I actually think a guy like Bubba would have been tremendous in the Hogan era because he has all-world hand-eye coordination.  

post #148 of 164

in response to the hogan irrelevant today theme. 

ben hogan was one of the greatest players of his era and thats all you can be!

you cant compare them to today golfer's, you can just be the best of your time. ( i would love to know what hogan would have made of rory mcilroys swing)

 

as for being a short hitter ,if you watch his match against sam snead ( shell wonderful world of golf) snead is at most one club less than hogan and sam was a big hitter.  if i may add that the 1996 masters play off between faldo and norman, also a big hitter and the best driver off the tee there was only one club between them and we know who came out on top.

ben hogan was an awful putter i agree, may suggest you read the book "afternoons with mr hogan". in the book the young man that shagged balls for ben hogan said his putter was a horrible club but ben hogan refused to change it. 

 

irishjj

post #149 of 164

Well for being a horrible putter he damn sure knew how to hit a golf ball and win majors on top of being in pretty bad shape.I guess if he could putt better and wasn't almost killed then he would've had more majors than jack and would be greatest.To me just based on what he accomplished he is the best of all time but I know you have to go by records to say that.Its like Richard petty and dale Earnhardt.Petty has 200 wins and 7 titles but theres no doubt in my mind dale was the best even though he didn't have 200 wins.

post #150 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishjj View Post
 

in response to the hogan irrelevant today theme. 

ben hogan was one of the greatest players of his era and thats all you can be!

you cant compare them to today golfer's, you can just be the best of your time. ( i would love to know what hogan would have made of rory mcilroys swing)

 

as for being a short hitter ,if you watch his match against sam snead ( shell wonderful world of golf) snead is at most one club less than hogan and sam was a big hitter.  if i may add that the 1996 masters play off between faldo and norman, also a big hitter and the best driver off the tee there was only one club between them and we know who came out on top.

ben hogan was an awful putter i agree, may suggest you read the book "afternoons with mr hogan". in the book the young man that shagged balls for ben hogan said his putter was a horrible club but ben hogan refused to change it. 

 

irishjj

 

Great book. I enjoyed reading it.

 

I think Ben would be pretty great, even now. Airbags would have prevented his serious injuries, and he would most likely be traveling by plane, anyway.

 

He might even have been the Nike ad "Just do it!". Imagine his hawkish look staring at you in HD from a 65" screen. The slogan would have been "You better do it!"

post #151 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aflighter View Post
 

Well for being a horrible putter he damn sure knew how to hit a golf ball and win majors on top of being in pretty bad shape.I guess if he could putt better and wasn't almost killed then he would've had more majors than jack and would be greatest.To me just based on what he accomplished he is the best of all time but I know you have to go by records to say that.Its like Richard petty and dale Earnhardt.Petty has 200 wins and 7 titles but theres no doubt in my mind dale was the best even though he didn't have 200 wins.

I think your Petty/Earnhardt analogy is a perfect example of why you can't compare people from different eras.    Petty won 200 races  using far inferior equipment (when compared to today) BUT....  there were more races on the schedule during his heyday.   In one season, Petty won 10 straight and 27 total.   Nowdays, there are only 30 something races on the whole schedule.   Earnhardt won fewer races, while competing on a shorter schedule and in better equipment.    Both raced against many opponents who either are, or will be, in the NASCAR HOF.   So who really was better?   The fact is, there is no correct answer.   Never will be.   The differences in their eras make it impossible to have a definitive answer.   I personally believe Petty would have collected even more wins had he been able to use today's equipment in his heyday, but we will never know.

 

The same applies here.   Equipment improvements, schedule differences, hell, even changes to the way pros get from one tournament to the next, will all have played in to how many wins any particular player amassed.  Like the statement above about Petty, with Hogan's success using what is by comparison inferior equipment, I believe he would have excelled with today's equipment.   But again, we will never really know....

post #152 of 164

I'm hesitant to reply the OP because I think he's trolling, but I feel compelled to reply anyway.   There's no question that the golfers of today are a different breed from those 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.  However, if you gave the golfers of today balata balls and persimmon drivers, they'd be hard-pressed to break 80.  Fact.  That's called leveling the playing field.  Obviously, Ben Hogan can't play today with new technology, but today's players could in fact attempt to play 18 holes with older technology.  It would be ugly. 

 

Dale

post #153 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzjc View Post

I'm hesitant to reply the OP because I think he's trolling, but I feel compelled to reply anyway.   There's no question that the golfers of today are a different breed from those 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago.  However, if you gave the golfers of today balata balls and persimmon drivers, they'd be hard-pressed to break 80.  Fact.  That's called leveling the playing field.  Obviously, Ben Hogan can't play today with new technology, but today's players could in fact attempt to play 18 holes with older technology.  It would be ugly. 

Dale

The old club/ball experiment has been done, and the modern players scored about the same as the best in the past.

Ben Hogan would still do well right now. The only reason Ben would not dominate is because so many other players would compete at close to the same high level of play.

If anyone says he's irrelevant today, it's because he paved the way to the modern player.
post #154 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzjc View Post
 

However, if you gave the golfers of today balata balls and persimmon drivers, they'd be hard-pressed to break 80.  Fact.  

 

Huh? Not even close to fact, of course those guys could break 80 with persimmon woods and balata balls. The pros are the best ball strikers in the world, they hit it solid and in the center of the face most of the time.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dzjc View Post
 

Obviously, Ben Hogan can't play today with new technology, but today's players could in fact attempt to play 18 holes with older technology.  It would be ugly. 

 

Dale

 

It wouldn't take Hogan that long to get accustomed to today's technology, he had the "modern" driver set-up basically figured out. Also it's not like he'd have to change anything with his swing, good impact alignments don't go out of style ;-)

post #155 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

Huh? Not even close to fact, of course those guys could break 80 with persimmon woods and balata balls. The pros are the best ball strikers in the world, they hit it solid and in the center of the face most of the time.

Don't forget to mention Hogan played on courses that were nearly 1,000 yards shorter than modern championship layouts.
post #156 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-troop View Post


Don't forget to mention Hogan played on courses that were nearly 1,000 yards shorter than modern championship layouts.

 

Ok...they would still break 80 ;-)  Bernard Langer won the '93 Masters with a persimmon driver and balata ball, course was 6,905 yards long.

 

Balata balls and persimmon woods aren't going to have the modern tour players shooting 10+ shots higher. The average player now is a much better ball striker than the average player in the 50's,60's, 70's, 80's.

post #157 of 164

Actually, it was Peter Kostis (or maybe Butch Harmon) that said recently some of his current students (PGA tour players) can't get the persimmons off the ground.  'Nuff said.

 

Dale

post #158 of 164

Anyone old enough to have used persimmon and balata balls will tell you the difference wasn't huge. A few years ago some pros played a round with hickory sticks. I don't remember the results being drastic. Those guys are the best of the best. Didn't Bubba shoot a 77 using nothing but a 4 hybrid earlier in the year? I've been paired with guys using persimmon and Balata 100's in the past couple of years that played half decent. I have a couple Tour Balata balls I found on the course, can still buy them on eBay.

post #159 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzjc View Post
 

Actually, it was Peter Kostis (or maybe Butch Harmon) that said recently some of his current students (PGA tour players) can't get the persimmons off the ground.  'Nuff said.

 

Dale

 

It was Dave Phillips and I strongly disagree it's "completely different mechanics". Whether it's players now or in the 50's, great ball strikers share the same commonalities, there's about 5 of them ;-)

 

I also think Dave is joking and exaggerating when he says they can't get it in the air, he doesn't mean they're topping it or hitting worm burners. I'm sure they are launching it lower and if they are hitting Pro V1's, yes it's going to be tough to carry the ball as far because the ball spins a lot less.

 

http://www.golf.com/instruction/johnny-miller-peter-kostis-dave-phillips-golf-magazine-interview
 

Quote:

 

DP: Johnny, it's a completely different era. I give Tour guys a persimmon driver and they can't get it off the ground. They start laughing, asking, "Why can't I hit this?" It's completely different mechanics for how they get the ball in the air with today's technology.

 

What is completely different about these two pictures? 

post #160 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

 

What is completely different about these two pictures?

Ooh, is this from Highlights Magazine?!?!?  I love these!!!

 

Let's see ...

 

  1. Different hat
  2. Long sleeves vs. short sleeves
  3. Crowd in background vs. bunker and water hazard.
  4. Shirt collar size.
  5. Different type of tee marker

 

Hmmm, that's all I see.  What did I miss?:-P

post #161 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

 

Ok...they would still break 80 ;-)  Bernard Langer won the '93 Masters with a persimmon driver and balata ball, course was 6,905 yards long.

 

Balata balls and persimmon woods aren't going to have the modern tour players shooting 10+ shots higher. The average player now is a much better ball striker than the average player in the 50's,60's, 70's, 80's.

 

Agreed.  I was simply pointing out that if you're going to try to compare 1953 Hogan to 2013 Speith, you can certainly talk about equipment--but you should also note the differences in golf course layout.  The tee shot on the 18th at ANGC requires about 285 uphill to get to the top of the hill so you can see the green.  In 1953 it only required about 240 yards--very manageable with persimmon and balata.

post #162 of 164
The op of this thread is more irrelevant than anyone! What a dick!
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