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Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc. - Page 2

post #19 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

This has always been a mystery to me, so I'm hoping someone can elaborate. I play the DG-X100 shafts in my irons. These shafts fit my swing profile quite well. My wedges fall under the umbrella term "wedge flex". They feel a little softer than S300s to me. But of the 5 "wedge flex" wedges I have, they all feel like they are a little bit off in flex from one another. The inconsistency didn't bother me before I started scoring well in the short game, but now I'm starting to lose trust in them. I really don't have any idea how to approach wedge shaft fitting. The mystery is mainly because of what I see as somewhat contravening goals: I want a shaft that matches my iron set feel and trajectory on my full swings, and I want a shaft that performs well on much slower swing speed chips and pitches.

What are the tour players fitting their wedge shafts to? Are they harder? Softer? Are they a somewhat exotic custom trim?
post #20 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

http://www.oobgolf.com/content/the+w...dge_Shaft.html

This article from The Wedge Guy is pretty helpful and informative on this very subject. Basically, it says to try to keep your wedge shafts as close as possible to the flex, weight, and material to your irons. He says this because it helps with more consistent feel.
post #21 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

Thanks for pointing that out. But it only serves to raise more questions. For example:

"But we are not fans of an exact match of the shaft in your irons, because of the vast range of clubhead speed where you will be using your wedges. Our own variation of the Rifle Spinner and our SCoR graphite shafts are both engineered to ensure adequate tip stiffness to serve full swings, but suitable flex in the upper part of the shaft to give you that feel around the greens when clubhead speed is greatly reduced. Generally speaking, however, you’ll find better short game success if you closely match your wedge shafts to your iron flex. That’s why we offer the Rifle Spinner in Firm and Regular flexes and our SCoR graphite in Firm, Regular and Ladies/Seniors flexes."

So he wants a close match but not an exact match? If so, what are the differences in the wedge? Firmer tip, but softer butt? As an example, according to what he said, if you play DG X100 shafts in your irons, what should you play in your wedges? Just guessing, but something like DG S300 with 5.5 inches knocked off the tip? In other words, where on the shaft and by how much does the flex vary between wedges and irons in an ideal set?
post #22 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

The first thing you need to understand is that most "wedge" flex shafts are seconds. When a shaft manufacturer is building shafts with weight/frequency tolerances, and some don't quite meet their tolerances, they are crowned as "wedge" flex. You should definitely have your wedges fitted just as you did your irons.
post #23 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

Originally Posted by bunkerputt View Post
Thanks for pointing that out. But it only serves to raise more questions. For example:

"But we are not fans of an exact match of the shaft in your irons, because of the vast range of clubhead speed where you will be using your wedges. Our own variation of the Rifle Spinner and our SCoR graphite shafts are both engineered to ensure adequate tip stiffness to serve full swings, but suitable flex in the upper part of the shaft to give you that feel around the greens when clubhead speed is greatly reduced. Generally speaking, however, you’ll find better short game success if you closely match your wedge shafts to your iron flex. That’s why we offer the Rifle Spinner in Firm and Regular flexes and our SCoR graphite in Firm, Regular and Ladies/Seniors flexes."

So he wants a close match but not an exact match? If so, what are the differences in the wedge? Firmer tip, but softer butt? As an example, according to what he said, if you play DG X100 shafts in your irons, what should you play in your wedges? Just guessing, but something like DG S300 with 5.5 inches knocked off the tip? In other words, where on the shaft and by how much does the flex vary between wedges and irons in an ideal set?
I think if you took a S300, and tipped it 5.5 inches, it would be a complete piece of pipe. I think you might have meant just a s300 playing shorter than your irons. Sorry for taking it the wrong way, if that is what you meant.
post #24 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

Go to a professional fitter. That is what they are there for.
post #25 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

I switched from off the rack AdamsGolf tom watson wedges with generic wedge flex shafts to customized longer more upright TaylorMade Z TP with Rifle Spinner 5.5 (the only option available to me.... not sure how the wedge guys eidilon wedges have two flex options...).

I don't know what exactly should get the credit....... but seriously, the new wedges are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the old ones.

The BIGGEST difference is being able to hit full shots consistently.
post #26 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

Originally Posted by Danattherock View Post
Go to a professional fitter. That is what they are there for.
This is the kind of answer I'm NOT looking for. What I AM looking for are general answers to the question of what is ideal in a wedge shaft. Is it softer than your normal shaft? Is it heavier than your normal shaft? Is it stiffer in the tip than your normal shaft? You may assume that control and accuracy are more important than distance.

Note: saying, "It totally depends on your style of play and how you swing", is not a well-defined answer, just as an example.
post #27 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

I would assume that the shaft would not be as stiff, since wedges are so much heavier, thus less swing speed than irons. As a matter of fact, Tiger uses True Temper S400 shafts in his wedges despite his astronomical swing speed. (They may be tipped, not sure.) Personally I use the exact same shaft in my wedges that I do in my irons. It's all preference though. Some head/shaft combinations just work better in wedges; just like irons and woods.
post #28 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

Originally Posted by Power_fade View Post
I would assume that the shaft would not be as stiff, since wedges are so much heavier, thus less swing speed than irons. As a matter of fact, Tiger uses True Temper S400 shafts in his wedges despite his astronomical swing speed. (They may be tipped, not sure.) Personally I use the exact same shaft in my wedges that I do in my irons. It's all preference though. Some head/shaft combinations just work better in wedges; just like irons and woods.
Thanks. That's great info. I'd imagine his normal 135 PW swing is in the upper 80s to low 90s or so. I do wonder how he tips them. A PW is tipped 4.5 degrees standard, IIR. I've never trimmed anything higher, though. Are these tipped at 4.5 or >4.5?
post #29 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

Possibly higher. I think so. I don't see how he could use those shafts in the first place as much as he loads that shaft and as fast as his ss is. I think the S400s are only in his sw and lw, not pitching.
post #30 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

Originally Posted by Power_fade View Post
Possibly higher. I think so. I don't see how he could use those shafts in the first place as much as he loads that shaft and as fast as his ss is. I think the S400s are only in his sw and lw, not pitching.
I'm trying to build a wedge set that I can feel confident in. I really like the feel and performance of my iron shafts and I'd like the same confidence in my wedges. I'm playing DG X100s, with the 4-9 standard trim, the PW is +1/4" over the recommended 4.25" by true temper. The PW is 48* and I carry wedges at 52, 56, and 60. My guess is that I can get an X100 in the 52, tip trim it like the PW and play S400s tip-trimmed 5" in the 56 and 60. How much do people usually tip-trim the 52-60 clubs? Is the 52 trimmed like the PW?
post #31 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

I am a new user to this message board. I found it by doing a google search on the words "wedge flex" and found a prior thread on the subject in this forum. Once registered, however, I could not locate the thread to ask the question I wanted to ask.

So here is my question. I recently purchased two new Cleveland CG 14 wedges - a 56 degree sand wedge and 52 degree gap wedge. I was fitted by a Cleveland professional and to make a long story short, the two new wedges have True Temper "wedge flex" shafts. This is just my personal opinion, but the wedges have an awful lot of flex in them.

I can hit these new wedges fine off a mat, but less so off a tight lie in the fairway. It feels as if the shaft just bends tremendously when compared to the Dynamic Gold S300 shafts in my current Cleveland sand and gap wedges, and I don't hit them as well as I do the older wedges.

The loft, lie, offset and all of that remains the same in the two new wedges with the only real difference being the shaft flex. The simple solution seems to be to replace the wedge flex shafts with S300 shafts.

Has anyone else experienced this with wedge flex shafts? Any comments? Thank you in advance.
post #32 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

I'm just guessing but wouldn't being able to hit off a mat better then a tight lie fairway have more to do with the bounce of the club?
post #33 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

Originally Posted by MI Rob View Post
I'm just guessing but wouldn't being able to hit off a mat better then a tight lie fairway have more to do with the bounce of the club?

I would think it easier to hit off a mat regardless of the bounce since mats are incredibly easy to hit off of to begin with.

Still, the bounce on both sets of wedges is the same. One wedge is far, far easier for me to hit than the other. I guess what I am saying is that the wedge flex is really a regular flex on these two clubs, and since I am not used to the shaft bending so much I am having a difficult time hitting the clubs.

I recall in that other thread someone stating that wedge flex was tantamount to stiff flex, but my experience suggests this is not so on these two clubs. There is little doubt in my mind that the shafts in the existing wedges are stiffer than the shafts on the new wedges. I feel that the difference is causing the club to get stuck a little when it hits the turf and, thus, anything that isn't 100% perfectly struck ends up with the shaft and club head turning in my hands.

This has actually caused me to shank some balls in practice from tight lies and I will not use the club in play because of this. I only very rarely ever shank a ball, but in practice it has happened with these two clubs numerous times.

Unless the club wasn't set right, the only difference is the shaft. Since I can easily feel the difference in the shaft, this is what I think the issue is. I think my solution is to just change to the shaft I am familiar with, but I'm interested in others' thoughts.
post #34 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

OK, I think I have the answer to my own question. I spoke with a Cleveland Technician and he told me that their wedges previously came with stock True Temper Dynamic Gold s400 flex shafts. Today they come with a Cleveland wedge flex which is a softer tipped steel shaft with greater flexibility than the s400. The technician essentially confirmed my suspicions.

Cleveland believes the new shaft would give greater feel around the greens, which I would agree with on less than full swing shots. I don't believe the shaft has the same performance on full swing shots except for those shots struck absolutely perfectly.
post #35 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

Originally Posted by 9iron View Post
I would think it easier to hit off a mat regardless of the bounce since mats are incredibly easy to hit off of to begin with.

Still, the bounce on both sets of wedges is the same. One wedge is far, far easier for me to hit than the other. I guess what I am saying is that the wedge flex is really a regular flex on these two clubs, and since I am not used to the shaft bending so much I am having a difficult time hitting the clubs.

I recall in that other thread someone stating that wedge flex was tantamount to stiff flex, but my experience suggests this is not so on these two clubs. There is little doubt in my mind that the shafts in the existing wedges are stiffer than the shafts on the new wedges. I feel that the difference is causing the club to get stuck a little when it hits the turf and, thus, anything that isn't 100% perfectly struck ends up with the shaft and club head turning in my hands.

This has actually caused me to shank some balls in practice from tight lies and I will not use the club in play because of this. I only very rarely ever shank a ball, but in practice it has happened with these two clubs numerous times.

Unless the club wasn't set right, the only difference is the shaft. Since I can easily feel the difference in the shaft, this is what I think the issue is. I think my solution is to just change to the shaft I am familiar with, but I'm interested in others' thoughts.
I know that the new Niki VR wedges come with s400 shafts. I believe the idea is a more flexable shaft tip will impart more action on the ball w/o a full swing. One other thing that crossed my mind was, and I know this is a nasty subject to some, may be that the wedge you are having a hard time hitting needs to have the shaft spined. (I've spined different shafts and generally what I've found is that the better shafts like PX, Black Golds, rifle and rifle spinner shafts aren't that far off, but DG's will go all over the board. Some, the spine is minimal, others its very noticable. After I spined all of my DG's I've found them to be a very good shaft). This is only a suggestion at best.
post #36 of 81

Re: Wedge Shaft Flex vs Stiff Flex, Spinners, Etc.

There is no universal wedge flex. I work in the golf industry and every manufacturer has different shafts that they label 'wedge' flex. As stated above Nike Vr's are S400's, the new vokeys are S200's although the originals were S300s, Mizuno use S200's, S300's and S400's on different models but i cant remember which wedge gets which shaft.

Basically 'wedge' flex is the shaft that the company has worked out to give the best playability, feel etc for their specific wedge.

Dont know why the hell they dont just leave it as S300 or whatever on the shaft band!!
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