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65/20/15 Practice Ratios: Where to Devote Your Practice Time - Page 16

post #271 of 491
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brakkus View Post

I know Erik's theory is very sound and I understand his logic here and I believe for a high level player this would make perfect sense.

I certainly do agree though that an elite player needs greens in regulation but for those of us less skilled and not very long hitters than our efforts need to be put into other parts of the game.

 

I disagree with the characterization that the ratios are only important for a high level player.

 

If you're looking to break 90 then you need to be near every green in regulation and get up and down once in 18 holes (while avoiding double bogeys) to break 90 (par 72).

 

So that means you really can't hit a drive OB, chunk a shot into the water, etc. You only have to two-putt everything to break 90 (and since you're chipping or pitching frequently you'll one-putt a few most certainly).

 

65/25/10 is for all players. It's up to the PLAYER to assess whether they have an actual weakness, or whether they just think they do or are fooled into thinking they do.

post #272 of 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brakkus View Post

I know Erik's theory is very sound and I understand his logic here and I believe for a high level player this would make perfect sense.

However if you are like me then most of us probably have glaring weaknesses in our game that we don't wish to admit. Something Erik mentions that needs attention if that is the case.

For me and the amount I play golf I have narrowed down my practice to two things. Irons and chipping.
I find if you can strike an iron off the deck than you can hit all of them its just set up adjustments. Chipping which was a huge problem for me is now a big part of my practice and as I have found little adjustments to ball positions and face angle gives a massive range of shots.

This kind of practice for now will take me up a level until as such time circumstances change for me and I can ascertain where I need to go next. I certainly do agree though that an elite player needs greens in regulation but for those of us less skilled and not very long hitters than our efforts need to be put into other parts of the game.

 

Hitting the ball better, more fairways, more greens, closer to greens will benefit golfers at any level.  Along the lines of what Erik said, shooting lower scores means your "bad" shots are still in a position to save par or at worst make bogey.  Not going to lower your handicap by topping shots, hitting it OB.  It's about improving contact which allows you to have a more predictable shot pattern to advance the ball towards the target and avoid the big numbers.  Big numbers mostly originate from a poor full swing.  We all make poor swings during a round of golf but if you can can improve to the point where your "bad" shots are still be in play a majority of the time, that's when you'll see your scores drop.

post #273 of 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

Big numbers mostly originate from a poor full swing.  We all make poor swings during a round of golf but if you can can improve to the point where your "bad" shots are still be in play a majority of the time, that's when you'll see your scores drop.

Yes!  I can make bogeys all day with poor putting or poor chipping.  It is reallllllly hard to make BIG numbers by hitting a bad pitch shot or a bad lag putt.

 

If I was able to go back and remember every "other" on my cards from the last couple of years, I would bet that 90% (or more) of them were caused by at least one poor full swing.

post #274 of 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

 

Hitting the ball better, more fairways, more greens, closer to greens will benefit golfers at any level.  Along the lines of what Erik said, shooting lower scores means your "bad" shots are still in a position to save par or at worst make bogey.  Not going to lower your handicap by topping shots, hitting it OB.  It's about improving contact which allows you to have a more predictable shot pattern to advance the ball towards the target and avoid the big numbers.  Big numbers mostly originate from a poor full swing.  We all make poor swings during a round of golf but if you can can improve to the point where your "bad" shots are still be in play a majority of the time, that's when you'll see your scores drop.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Yes!  I can make bogeys all day with poor putting or poor chipping.  It is reallllllly hard to make BIG numbers by hitting a bad pitch shot or a bad lag putt.

 

If I was able to go back and remember every "other" on my cards from the last couple of years, I would bet that 90% (or more) of them were caused by at least one poor full swing.

I am living proof of that! I reckon my putting is close to scratch, my short game probably around a mid handicap but my full swing is a nightmare (getting better) that makes the other aspects of my game more or less irrelevant for the time being. Putting in the sub 30 range is great but kinda meaningless if you're already 1 over before making that glorious 1 putt from 18 feet. a4_sad.gif

 

The only upside is I can pretty much use 100-0-0 ratio until I get somewhere with the full swing.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if golf wasn't so friggin' awesome I would totally quit.

post #275 of 491

Another example.  My last 2 rounds were on a 9 hole (par 29) course where the 7 par threes range from 65 to 115 yards, and the 2 "par 4's" are 210 and 260 (both with water hazards).  One is a legit short par 4 that you would not drive unless you're nuts, and the other is a long par 3 if the tees are right, and a dogleg par 3.25 if the tees are left. ;)

 

For me, this course has basically 3 full swings (6 irons off both par 4 tees and maybe a gap wedge into the longer par 4)  The rest are all 50-90% sand and lob wedge swings.

 

I currently practice about 85/10/5 instead of the 65/25/10 suggested ratio, meaning I neglect my short game.

 

My 2 scores in those last two rounds were 28 and 29.  On a full course, I am an 8 handicap, yet take the long irons, fairway woods, and driver out of the game, and I'm shooting par.  And that is still with most of my practice concentrated on long game.

 

Practice your long game people!!!!!!!!!!!

post #276 of 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

 

I currently practice about 85/10/5 instead of the 65/25/10 suggested ratio, meaning I neglect my short game.

 

Ha ha, I pretty much do the same thing now during the summer.  For me just getting out and playing most mornings is enough practice for now with the short game.

post #277 of 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

I currently practice about 85/10/5 instead of the 65/25/10 suggested ratio, meaning I neglect my short game.

 

I currently practice about 97/3/0.  

 

I'm just now getting to a point where my short game can help me get closer to par more so than eliminating horrible full swings.  I should clarify, though, that the aforementioned ratio only applies to practice facility time.  I seriously don't have the patience to practice putting/chipping on a flat practice green.  So I get most of my practice in during super-twilight rounds on empty courses.  I'll probably never practice putting unless I got close to scratch.

post #278 of 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

I currently practice about 97/3/0.  

 

I'm just now getting to a point where my short game can help me get closer to par more so than eliminating horrible full swings.  I should clarify, though, that the aforementioned ratio only applies to practice facility time.  I seriously don't have the patience to practice putting/chipping on a flat practice green.  So I get most of my practice in during super-twilight rounds on empty courses.  I'll probably never practice putting unless I got close to scratch.

Yeah, my putting practice is almost exclusively warming up prior to rounds lately, so that 5% is probably a little high.  We did take the kids to Boomers last weekend though, does that count?  It's a new one handed drill I read about, goes a little something like this ...

 

post #279 of 491

Hi yes I agree with the ratios  but  it's still dependent upon the weakest areas of your game. I don't play a whole lot in fact I got caught up in the whole hit the ball as far as possible thing. I have some game when it comes to hitting the ball. My problem is touch and technique around the greens. I did allude to the glaring weakness part, mine being chipping. It hasn't helped trying out different methods of chipping. Now I'm settled on one particular method I have been hammering it everyday.

 

I neglected chipping for so long but believe it's on track after religiously practicing it for months now. I may be able to settle into the ratios suggested. My only argument is that most golfers fall into the recreational type of player with limited time to play or practice. Most are half decent players the ones that play regular anyway and are serious about improving. There is a strong chance they will still miss greens on a regular basis which means up and downs take on a greater importance.

 

I know Erik mentions the speed of your practice but if I have a spare 10 mins it's easier for me to grab a wedge and a ball and get some chipping and pitching done. Don't think I'm not practicing the long game I am but it's already going in the right direction but my scoring clubs need to catch up.

 

A question too what about guys who don't have the length to reach every par 4 in 2 shots?

post #280 of 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brakkus View Post

 

A question too what about guys who don't have the length to reach every par 4 in 2 shots?

That should not happen very often and if it does it is probably because you are not maximizing your distance and accuracy with your full swing.  If there are a few holes for someone like that they should be playing up a tee or two.  

post #281 of 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brakkus View Post

Hi yes I agree with the ratios  but  it's still dependent upon the weakest areas of your game. I don't play a whole lot in fact I got caught up in the whole hit the ball as far as possible thing. I have some game when it comes to hitting the ball. My problem is touch and technique around the greens. I did allude to the glaring weakness part, mine being chipping. It hasn't helped trying out different methods of chipping. Now I'm settled on one particular method I have been hammering it everyday.

 

I neglected chipping for so long but believe it's on track after religiously practicing it for months now. I may be able to settle into the ratios suggested. My only argument is that most golfers fall into the recreational type of player with limited time to play or practice. Most are half decent players the ones that play regular anyway and are serious about improving. There is a strong chance they will still miss greens on a regular basis which means up and downs take on a greater importance.

Before you get too far into your chipping technique may I suggest ... don't.  Instead, try this one: http://thesandtrap.com/t/39411/quickie-pitching-video/0_30

 

I have been using it for a couple of months now, and it is fantastic.  Easy to do, lots of versatility, lots of room for error.  It's worth a look.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brakkus View Post

A question too what about guys who don't have the length to reach every par 4 in 2 shots?

Move up to shorter tees.  What could possibly be fun about playing from tees that were meant for people who hit it further than you?

post #282 of 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Before you get too far into your chipping technique may I suggest ... don't.  Instead, try this one: http://thesandtrap.com/t/39411/quickie-pitching-video/0_30

I have been using it for a couple of months now, and it is fantastic.  Easy to do, lots of versatility, lots of room for error.  It's worth a look.


Don't get me wrong, I love this pitching technique but still find myself in many situations where I'm better served by a chip. I run into problems with deceleration on pitches if they are too short and am much more comfortable hitting a nice crisp chip in these scenarios.

But prior to Utley (and Erik) I was scared poopless when it came to a full speed high lofted pitch, now I'm very comfortable with them. But under, say, 20 yards or so I will always chip unless I have an obstacle in which case I'll go for a real wristy flop and pray. That usually creates a dime-sized brown spot and its not on the club a2_wink.gif
post #283 of 491
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post

Don't get me wrong, I love this pitching technique but still find myself in many situations where I'm better served by a chip. I run into problems with deceleration on pitches if they are too short and am much more comfortable hitting a nice crisp chip in these scenarios.

 

Show me a picture of such a shot.

 

Because odds are "you're doing it wrong." a3_biggrin.gif Pitches use a lot of speed but because they can be played with SO much loft you transfer very, very, VERY little of it to the golf ball. A good pitcher of the golf ball can take a full swing at probably 60 MPH or so and pop the ball out a foot or two.

 

Of course, if the ball's sitting up, you have to fly it four feet to get it onto the green, and it can run 20 feet to the hole, then duh, yes, hit a chip shot.

post #284 of 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Yeah, my putting practice is almost exclusively warming up prior to rounds lately, so that 5% is probably a little high.  We did take the kids to Boomers last weekend though, does that count?  It's a new one handed drill I read about, goes a little something like this ...

Only counts if you used AimPoint b2_tongue.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brakkus View Post

 

A question too what about guys who don't have the length to reach every par 4 in 2 shots?

 

Ball striking is still important, again it's all about how good are your missed.  Also players can pick up distance as their swings improves.  Improve the strike, ball tends to go further.

post #285 of 491
Thankyou guys for all the replies please understand I'm not dissing the purpose of this post I just want to clarify that a working father with limited time will improve his ballstriking with the correct practice but in the long run he is not going to make the tour.

I love this game and feel like I'm really getting somewhere but surely the better my short game the more chance I have to make some pars.

Not trying to be awkward but it could be like chasing the sack of golden coins at the end of the rainbow thinking that you need to work on your long game more.

I know time between strikes was mentioned but still for me personally surely as a recreational player I can never be too good from shorter distances.

Most of the half decent players I have played with can all hit the ball pretty well and are not losing balls all over the place so it comes down to being really accurate from close range.

I would say where I went most wrong was my practice was far to heavily weighted to the long game initially so maybe I have become very focused on short game now but I don't disagree with the GIR importance to your score in a perfect scenario you would be putting everytime for birdie.

Interesting though as I love practicing more than playing so I do give merit to everyones thoughts on this thread.
post #286 of 491

Ok...

 

I have a very dumb question. Probably posed by me before..

 

What is the right balanced in terms of time? I put in about 5 days of work. Yesterday, I think I was very tired so today I taking the day off.

 

I am wondering what type of schedule I would engage in terms of scheduling given the following conditions:

  • I have a golf net at home
  • The range is about 11 miles away
  • Time is a premium
  • Once car family (until my car is fixed)

 

Yes I am pretty geeked that I have made a huge step forward (thanks to Evolvr), but is there a point of diminishing returns in terms of practice time?

 

(not trying to throw gas on a fire, but want to get a good feeling for a viable practice schedule for improvement.

post #287 of 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

Show me a picture of such a shot.

 

Because odds are "you're doing it wrong." a3_biggrin.gif Pitches use a lot of speed but because they can be played with SO much loft you transfer very, very, VERY little of it to the golf ball. A good pitcher of the golf ball can take a full swing at probably 60 MPH or so and pop the ball out a foot or two.

 

Of course, if the ball's sitting up, you have to fly it four feet to get it onto the green, and it can run 20 feet to the hole, then duh, yes, hit a chip shot.

No doubt. For starters I decel on the short ones a3_biggrin.gif. I'm not in anyway implying there is a flaw with the technique being taught. I'm just saying that I hit the longer ones (30+ yards) beautifully but I chicken out on the shorties, so in the interest of better scoring I hit chips or bump and runs in those cases and work on the shorter pitches when I can. I also hit the putt-like chips in the "4 and 20" scenario you mention above. Works for me and in reality it isn't my short game that's holding me back it's my long game so I'm not going to worry about that (short pitches) hole in my game until it is what's holding me backwhich may be never.

 

My ratio is probably 90-5-5 and it would be 100-0-0 except there are days when I really want to practice but I can't so I'll putt in the bedroom or chip in the back-yard. I can always hit callaway foam balls in the basement but sometimes I crave that lovely "click" that only a real golfball will provide.

post #288 of 491
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstrike34 View Post

Ok...

 

I have a very dumb question. Probably posed by me before..

 

What is the right balanced in terms of time? I put in about 5 days of work. Yesterday, I think I was very tired so today I taking the day off.

 

I am wondering what type of schedule I would engage in terms of scheduling given the following conditions:

  • I have a golf net at home
  • The range is about 11 miles away
  • Time is a premium
  • Once car family (until my car is fixed)

 

Yes I am pretty geeked that I have made a huge step forward (thanks to Evolvr), but is there a point of diminishing returns in terms of practice time?

 

(not trying to throw gas on a fire, but want to get a good feeling for a viable practice schedule for improvement.

65-25-10 unless you have a glaring weakness in which case you should adjust the ratio to address it. a2_wink.gif

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