65/25/10 Practice Ratios: Where to Devote Your Practice Time - Page 3

I started a thread last summer that started a huge debate on this very issue and kind of hinted at Erik's opinion on this AND really changed my game and opinion on this issue a lot (13 to a 9 handicap in less than 1.5 months).

I'm doing it the same way this summer and plan to get even lower. I'd put money on it that I have an even par round of golf by the end of the summer.

By the end of last summer, when I had to stop playing and go back to college, I had started hitting 10-13 GIR during my average round simply because I put so much work into my PW-4I. I very near immediately saw a drop in 3-5 strokes when I started practicing on those iron shots for the majority of my practice time as opposed to short game (like I had always done in the past due to being told old and incorrect ideas). Granted I was on the range 3-4 days a week, I still feel as though I made vast improvements. The other thing was, the short game stayed just as good as ever, as did my putting (in fact I really didn't practice putting at all, and still putted well). The one thing that kept me from going even lower was my terrible driver, and I started hitting 3W off the tee instead of driver which I expect to change by the end of this summer.

And on top of that I can't tell you how much fun it was having rounds where I was hitting that many GIR. Based on my experience last summer, i'm convinced that this is THE best way to allocate your practice time.

Hmmm, interesting post. I think the Driver is very important and should be well practiced. Short game - yeah maybe about 20%, although I think putting should be higher - as long as it is quality practice (lining up putts, going through routines, practicing like you play). I would put putting up a around 20% and at least one x 30-40 min + a round week if you want to improve.

As Erik says the putting action is a very simple action to perform, the real practice should be focused on the mental things like, visualization, reading greens, and routine (you practice that stuff and you can be as good as the average tour player - or better). Set your sights high!

Long game: be sure to hit all your clubs, don't just hit one club, they should all be practiced. They all require a different distance from the ball for set up and a wider or narrower stance which matches the steeper or flatter plane.

Maybe it is not practice but a good review of how your "departments" were after a round should feed what needs to be looked at for the coming week (sometimes you don't have to practice if you know your weaknesses; it maybe just be a question of you telling yourself to commit to the shot, or visualize the shot better or commit to your swing-key).

Also I think you should have weeks off after practicing sometimes. Then go play and don't think about what you were working on. I did this on Saturday and had one of the best ball-striking rounds of my life (16 greens in reg). No real swing thoughts just an amazing feel for the club and the slot up the top of the swing (better than sex it was!...or maybe I'm not doing IT right!)

Plus if you are practicing consistently go and play 9 holes by yourself after every couple of sessions. Don't be too technical out there on your practice 9, get back to visualizing and hitting the appropriate shot for the situation. Test out the changes out on the course, it builds confidence.

If I had to choose between hitting balls and a practice 9 holes leading up to a comp I would choose 9 holes for sure. But a combo of the two also works well.

Cheers,

Anthony

This is the truth: we all need to work on our weaknesses.  Whether this means thinking about your round or evaluating different aspects of your game from the range, the weakest link is that which should be improved most.  If you are taking 9 penalty strokes off the tee, you need not carry your whole bag to the range with you, just take driver, 3 wood, and leave the rest in the trunk. 

It is more that you need to leave the driver in your bag when you go to the tee until the driving range sessions suggest that you can keep it in play.

Working on your weakness matters but you have to think also of how important they are. My sand game is good enough to get out the bunker but expecting the ball to stop within 15 feet of the hole is a stretch. Should I work on that? Nope. I am in 2-3 bunkers a round. Compared to the missed driver/approach shots, it isn't worth the time right now. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladders11 

 

This is the truth: we all need to work on our weaknesses.  Whether this means thinking about your round or evaluating different aspects of your game from the range, the weakest link is that which should be improved most.  If you are taking 9 penalty strokes off the tee, you need not carry your whole bag to the range with you, just take driver, 3 wood, and leave the rest in the trunk. 

I just found this thread, and I couldn't agree more! My practice time is broken down very close to these numbers. I have thought spending hours upon hours chipping and putting to be out of whack for a long time. I am a scratch player and I became that way by increasing my GIRs. My stats for the past year show me hitting 70.6% of greens in regulation. That is where I save strokes, with my full swing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NM Golf 

I just found this thread, and I couldn't agree more! My practice time is broken down very close to these numbers. I have thought spending hours upon hours chipping and putting to be out of whack for a long time. I am a scratch player and I became that way by increasing my GIRs. My stats for the past year show me hitting 70.6% of greens in regulation. That is where I save strokes, with my full swing.

I agree with you and the OP 100%.  GIR's are why I am where I am at with my game.  It is a lot easier to par a hole when hitting GIR's.  

In response to the 2 hour practice concept, I would say this:

For anyone that isn't a pro, practicing for that long (especially on your long swing) is going to be problematic. Muscle fatigue and repetitive motion is the number one cause for a loss in form for the short term. You would need an incredibly strong will to bring 100% mental focus and correct form to each shot (I'm guessing maybe 100 shots?) over the course of an hour and fifteen minutes. 

Besides, hitting over 40 balls seems unnecessary when people don't take a long swing over 40 times in a round of golf. 

In my personal experience, my game/swing skyrocketed when I started limiting my range time, because then every ball was hit with even more purpose and intent, like on the golf course. 

Fatigue and risk of injury are a good point to make here.  And focused practice does seem to bring much greater value than less focused beating of golf balls.  Today in my mid-40s I don't have a problem hitting lots of practice balls, but am I better off hitting fewer and focusing more on each?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The4HourGolfPro 

In response to the 2 hour practice concept, I would say this:

 

For anyone that isn't a pro, practicing for that long (especially on your long swing) is going to be problematic. Muscle fatigue and repetitive motion is the number one cause for a loss in form for the short term. You would need an incredibly strong will to bring 100% mental focus and correct form to each shot (I'm guessing maybe 100 shots?) over the course of an hour and fifteen minutes. 

 

Besides, hitting over 40 balls seems unnecessary when people don't take a long swing over 40 times in a round of golf. 

 

In my personal experience, my game/swing skyrocketed when I started limiting my range time, because then every ball was hit with even more purpose and intent, like on the golf course. 

I often go to the driving range for 3 hours.  I'll work on the short game for 45 min, 45 min putting, and an hour and a half hitting balls.  I don't think I suffer from muscle fatigue by hitting 10 pitches, collecting them, and repeating.  Putting for long periods of time can be tough on your back I guess, but that's pretty much when I stop. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by The4HourGolfPro 

In my personal experience, my game/swing skyrocketed when I started limiting my range time, because then every ball was hit with even more purpose and intent, like on the golf course. 

I agree with this.  I don't know how people hit the "large" or "jumbo" bucket of balls.  At the pace I work at now, this would take a long time.  It is helpful if you have some practice drills and keep tabs on the range.  When you get tired, at best, you're wasting your time; at worst, you're grooving a half-arsed swing.

I like the idea iacas. I'm wondering if a noob should take this approach as well (the 65/25/10 thing). As you saw from my golfing thread, every aspect of my game is weak.

I am the sort of dude that goes and gets TWO big buckets, and starts hitting balls one right after the other. I just thought that hitting balls would give instant feedback to what I'm trying to do.

Well like any sort of practice you build up to it, if your starting to get fatigued then call it a day, no need in engraving a bad swing habit because your tired..

Quote:

Originally Posted by The4HourGolfPro 

In response to the 2 hour practice concept, I would say this:

 

For anyone that isn't a pro, practicing for that long (especially on your long swing) is going to be problematic. Muscle fatigue and repetitive motion is the number one cause for a loss in form for the short term. You would need an incredibly strong will to bring 100% mental focus and correct form to each shot (I'm guessing maybe 100 shots?) over the course of an hour and fifteen minutes. 

 

Besides, hitting over 40 balls seems unnecessary when people don't take a long swing over 40 times in a round of golf. 

 

In my personal experience, my game/swing skyrocketed when I started limiting my range time, because then every ball was hit with even more purpose and intent, like on the golf course. 

I find fatigue only comes if I hit balls way too fast. If I hit close to 3 balls every 2 minutes, I could hit for hours.

Do you walk a golf course or ride? If you can't hit balls for an hour and a half how do you expect to keep up your game walking 18 holes by the time you get to 18? I find the walking is much more taxing on me then the swinging( I guess I don't play flat courses either).

Also, there is not really a point to compare how many balls you should hit on the range to how many you hit in a round. If I am hitting them well on the range, I don't just stop, I keep on going and going, and trying to continue to hit them well. Hopefully to develop muscle memory.

Also Erik's post stated you would only hit 48.75 balls in 65 minutes, far from 100.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad 

I hear ya ... in my last round I shot a 92 with 9 (yes, 9!!) penalty strokes.  5 of those were stroke and distance, so in effect, my long game cost me 14 strokes.  I also had 2 3-putts.  Take away those 16 strokes and I'm left with a 76.  At this point, I would be ecstatic with a 76.  I have shot scores like that in the past but they were, not coincidentally, on the type of courses where holes were bordered not by hazards, but by other holes, where I couldn't get into any trouble off the tee.

 

This is why Erik's original post makes so much sense to me.

What do you know?  I played one of these courses yesterday and shot a 74.

I had 28* official putts, and I had 8 GIR.  (*  I putted from off the green 5 times, so I used the putter 33 times)  I used my SW for shots that would fall into his "short game" category 10 times.  And I had 31 full swing shots - 3 times as many as the short game shots.

Makes perfect sense to me that I need to practice my full swing the most because once I can get that straightened out I should be able to post good scores on the harder, tighter courses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapanda 

I like the idea iacas. I'm wondering if a noob should take this approach as well (the 65/25/10 thing). As you saw from my golfing thread, every aspect of my game is weak.

 

I am the sort of dude that goes and gets TWO big buckets, and starts hitting balls one right after the other. I just thought that hitting balls would give instant feedback to what I'm trying to do.

Figure out how many balls are in the bucket and make a plan for what you want to do with them and stick to it, I actually write it down before going. For example, I usually only hit a half bucket (30 balls) every morning but before going to the range I'll write down what I'm going to do with them, maybe 6 balls with a seven iron trying to hit the 150 marker - keep track of how far left or right I miss by (bring a pad and write it down even) - 6 balls with the 5 iron going for the halfway point between the 150 and 200 marker, again how far left or right did I miss by. Maybe put a little tape on a 5 iron, hit 6 balls and check after each one to see how far off the sweet spot I hit it etc... gives some structure to your session and keeps you from become a range-bot. I also have a set of Dynacraft blades that are WAY out of my league, lately that is all I use at the range, it's frustrating but when I hit it sweet it is AWESOME and when I go back to  my cavity backs for regular play its easy-peasy!

Remember, practice is PRACTICE and when it is time to play you will benefit from your diligence.

One of the best posts I've ever seen.  Before I started working hard on my golf swing I would go out one day and shoot 68 then next and shoot 82.  It all came down to short game and if my misses were managable that day.  Now I have a little better swing and misses my rounds are more close together and golf is alot easier. 
 

What's funny is that you can have a killer short game but no one will notice or care until you are saving par or getting up and down for birdie.  I was looking at my stats and saw that I am well above average at getting up and down from around the greens.....BUT I was saving bogey or worse so my score doesn't reflect it because I'm still losing strokes.  I had one round where I had seven consecutive 1 putts and though some of them where par saves.....a better player is getting 3 or 4 birdies if they have that many 1 putts. 

IN an effort to give my 2cents, I have a friend who is struggling terribly with his long game right now and is shooting in the 90s, 100s consistently.  He used to be a very consistent golfer and this year absolutely lost his long game. 

If you did an experiment where my friend played all his long game shots and then had a pro shoot all of his short game shots and putting, he still wouldn't break 80, let alone 90 for that matter.

For example, the other day we played a hole, par 4, 430 yards with O.B on the right side. (My friend is a lefty)

- 1st Shot (driver) off of the tee was hooked to the right fescue...we couldn't find it.....had to go back and tee again.

--> Penalty

- 3rd Shot (hybrid) was hooked again into O.B...had to re-tee. (went hybrid to have a better chance to hit the fairway and failed)

--> Penalty

- 5th shot (hybrid) into fairway bunker

- 6th shot (5iron) short of the Green.

- 7th shot (chip) onto Green (30ft putt)

- 8th shot (putt) blasted by the hole

- 9th shot (putt) to 5 feet

- 10th shot (putt) in the hole

Now let's insert a PRO on the short game portion of what happened on this hole above.  Let's assume after the 6th short landed short, the pro chipped to 7 feet and then sunk the putt, my friend wouldn't finished with a  8 vs. a 10.

So in this example, a pro's short game would've saved quadruple bogey for my friend.

The point is, this is a microcosm of Erik's point and the point of others who understand how important hitting the ball where you INTEND to hit it is.  What's the point of having an amazing short game when you are consistently only saving Double's, Triple's and Quad's?