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What's the rush? Golfs obsession with slow play - Page 12

post #199 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

I was there.  My mom loved the show and when it abruptly vanished she was terribly disappointed until the news came out that it was rigged.  I don't think she really got into another quiz type show until the original Jeopardy! aired in 1964 (the year I graduated from high school) with Art Fleming as the host.  Almost 50 years later I still like Jeopardy!

 

Now back to our scheduled programming!

 

Can't argue either of your statements.

 

Back to the topic, I don't think slow play is an "obsession". It is really important to play at a decent pace for everyone's enjoyment.

 

When I first started golf three years ago, I thought that it was very uninviting for us to be kicked off the course when we did not know how to play well. In retrospect, I think we should have been warned that there is a specific pace of play for the course. We should also have had a brief instruction on pace of play and why it is important, before being let on the course. At that point, we would have understood this and gone to one of the easier courses. There are many courses that cater specifically to beginners, and that is where I belonged at the time.

 

Now I go to the same golf course, with 12 minute 4 person play times. I even get a little impatient (not outwardly) at playing partners who take too long to setup when they play their shot. If a party is taking more than 15 minutes per hole, there is a noticeable backup at all the par 3 holes.

 

So, pace of play, is not an "obsession" per se, but a requirement for uninterrupted and enjoyable play of all the golfers on the course.

 

I have a less than common point of view on this subject, because only a little over 3 years ago I was a total beginner. I remember vividly getting kicked off the course by the "golf snobs".

 

If I was taught the subject of pace of play 3 years ago by the golf courses, I would have readily followed the "rules".

post #200 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkuehn1952 View Post
 

 

Hey, I know another guy in B.C. who does the same thing.  He uses the name "windowsurfer", I believe.

Hey Bkuehn - oob bro! Yeh, I am one and the same. But I did read (maybe on this site) of a guy who did 60 on his sixtieth and that was my inspiration. 

post #201 of 252

Ha ha ha!  I suspected we had crossed paths on the internet before when you mentioned the birthday marathon.  Let's keep it quiet that we are cheating on our other website!:whistle:

post #202 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkuehn1952 View Post
 

Ha ha ha!  I suspected we had crossed paths on the internet before when you mentioned the birthday marathon.  Let's keep it quiet that we are cheating on our other website!:whistle:

Busted. Wife and mistress @ the same party

post #203 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

I was there.  My mom loved the show and when it abruptly vanished she was terribly disappointed until the news came out that it was rigged.  I don't think she really got into another quiz type show until the original Jeopardy! aired in 1964 (the year I graduated from high school) with Art Fleming as the host.  Almost 50 years later I still like Jeopardy!

Now back to our scheduled programming!

Can't argue either of your statements.

Back to the topic, I don't think slow play is an "obsession". It is really important to play at a decent pace for everyone's enjoyment.

When I first started golf three years ago, I thought that it was very uninviting for us to be kicked off the course when we did not know how to play well. In retrospect, I think we should have been warned that there is a specific pace of play for the course. We should also have had a brief instruction on pace of play and why it is important, before being let on the course. At that point, we would have understood this and gone to one of the easier courses. There are many courses that cater specifically to beginners, and that is where I belonged at the time.

Now I go to the same golf course, with 12 minute 4 person play times. I even get a little impatient (not outwardly) at playing partners who take too long to setup when they play their shot. If a party is taking more than 15 minutes per hole, there is a noticeable backup at all the par 3 holes.

So, pace of play, is not an "obsession" per se, but a requirement for uninterrupted and enjoyable play of all the golfers on the course.

I have a less than common point of view on this subject, because only a little over 3 years ago I was a total beginner. I remember vividly getting kicked off the course by the "golf snobs".

If I was taught the subject of pace of play 3 years ago by the golf courses, I would have readily followed the "rules".

They kicked you off?

I guess I'm lucky. I have a friend who when u i began playing told me the rules, the etiquettes in golf, and also about pace of play.

That being said, it'd be a cold day in Hell when another golfer gets me off a course after I've paid to play.
post #204 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

Wow, 8-9 minute intervals? That would be some amazingly fast golf. Is that for pros?

 

$64,000 seems to be a magical number for many private course initial memberships. Is it really worth that much money to play?

 

I am pretty happy playing from $20 to $90 per round, and the occasional $150 splurge. I see two courses near my house that cost that much to play. San Gabriel and Annandale probably cost $64,000 or more. That means you pay roughly 64000/20(years roughly)+10000/year (maintenance)= $250 per round at 1 round per week. Yes, you get free range balls. But wow, even $125 per round at two per week is kind of high!

 

If I play two of the public courses near each of those two private courses: Brookside and Santa Anita. It costs around $29 for Santa Anita and $60 for Brookside. A range key gives you $7.50 large buckets.

 

What is the draw to play these private courses? If you just put the money in a CD, you can play around 1500 rounds at the public courses. That comes out to 14 years twice a week or 28 years at once per week playing the prime times.

 

I don't see the appeal, and you need to be invited to join one of these clubs anyway.

I didn't pay $64,000 for my membership.    I play a private course, because I can't stand playing over a 5 hour rounds on the weekend at the local muni's.   I would rather have a root canal.

 

I also love the fact that I can show up after work (no tee time), walk out onto the golf courses and play as few or as many holes as I want, jump around if it's busy and hit 3-4 balls to a green if I choose. We don't have outings that take up the course, everyone knows the pace of play rules and did I mention no tee times during the week or after noon on the weekends. :-D

 

I also play on average 5 days days a week from April through October and have played about 180 round this year.  And taking my monthly fee and initiation fee, my fiancee and I average closer to $40/round.  I've played 180 rounds this year and she is around 100.  $10,000 a year maintenance fee (I only pay $500 month) seems rather high, that's a lot higher than almost any of the private courses around here.  All of the other courses I checked out were in the $500 range like my course, some a little lower, some a little higher. Not sure how many people at CC play once a week. 

 

The course I'm a member at you don't need to be invited, there are other courses that you may have too, but those clubs are getting fewer and fewer as the older members start to move to warmer climates and they want to get younger members.  Younger members also pay a cheaper initiation fee as well, at every course I was interested in joining.  And there are several clubs that don't even charge an initiation fee anymore, a couple charge $250 application fee and that's it.  

 

The public courses around No. VA or DC that are worth playing, are much more expensive than $30 or even $60, and on the weekend they are hovering around $100 and you still have 5+ hour rounds.

 

So the appeal is the ability to walk on and play as much or as little golf as I want, rarely get held up (10 minute tee time spacing), play a course in fantastic shape and just enjoy playing golf without waiting on every shot.

 

So to me it's worth whatever money I can afford.

post #205 of 252

My course sends out marshals often to keep the pace going.   Combined that with 10 minute tee time separation, we don't end up waiting too long behind any group.   The usual round takes 4 1/2 hours which is ok.   If the course is wide open, my wife and I can do it in 3 1/2 hours.   If we are in a hurry to go somewhere, we get it done in a little over 3 hours.   But, I've learned to relax and play 4 1/2 hour pace golf without getting impatient as before.  Aging mellows a person out, I think.   

 

The only exception was when there was a tournament just ahead of us.   They must have picked a wrong course to have their tournament - too difficult for their level.  On the 1st tee, one guy hit 4 provisions, another two, 3rd guy 1, and 4th may have hit an iron into fairway (after seeing all the missed shots).   It took 20 minutes for them to leave the tee box.   The next group wasn't any better as everyone ended up hitting provision or two.  The attending starter took pity on us and sent us to #8 hole ahead of the tournament and we ended up playing #1 - #7 afterward.  This still took 6 hours and I wasn't mellow enough to go home happy afterward.

post #206 of 252

I think you need to find someone new to play with...if you're not holding anybody up why hurry?  

post #207 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golf Aficionado View Post
 

. . . why hurry?  

 

Be quick, but don't hurry. To quote the beguilin' Agatha, "Oh, golf is for smellin' heather and cut grass and walkin' fast across the countryside and feelin' the wind and watchin' the sun go down and seein' yer friends hit some good shots and hittin' some yerself..."♣

 

Golf is a sport; I like my heart to pump blood at a rate not less than it does while I am sitting at my DESK, waiting to go golfing. I want to feel strong and fit and active, stopping only when someone else is shooting near me. A steady, brisk pace without long breaks is my ideal and I'm willing to sacrifice to get this.

 

Page 64, Golf In the Kingdom, Penguin, 1997

post #208 of 252

I've read a lot of articles on how slow play is such a HUGE problem in golf. And all i've been able to find are suggested methods of play and etiquette. There has to be a better solution to this problem. My grandfather and I developed a system of play to increase the pace of play. I want to share this because i think it could help a lot of golfers.

 

We attached two pull carts to the back of our golf cart. We designed a lever that would release the pull cart from the golf cart. This increased our options of progression through the hole. By no longer having our clubs tied to the cart we could take every club with us to our ball, while the other prepared for their shot. I could now make my club selection from behind my ball. And i didn't have to go back to the cart if my shot didn't go as planned. This allowed us to cut out and time wasted with lateral moves back and forth to the cart and we were able to maintain a constant progression to the hole. Our pace of play had increased and we loved it...until we would caught up to the groups ahead of us. Eventually we would play through. 

 

Let me know what you think. Check out my album in my profile for pictures. 

 

Oh ya, this system works for groups of 4 as well.

post #209 of 252

Slow play isn't a very big issue for me. I like being out on the course and thinking my thoughts.

 

Obviously there's a line, but I don't think stressing people out is a worthwhile tradeoff.

post #210 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by JgWoods View Post
 

I've read a lot of articles on how slow play is such a HUGE problem in golf. And all i've been able to find are suggested methods of play and etiquette. There has to be a better solution to this problem. My grandfather and I developed a system of play to increase the pace of play. I want to share this because i think it could help a lot of golfers.

 

We attached two pull carts to the back of our golf cart. We designed a lever that would release the pull cart from the golf cart. This increased our options of progression through the hole. By no longer having our clubs tied to the cart we could take every club with us to our ball, while the other prepared for their shot. I could now make my club selection from behind my ball. And i didn't have to go back to the cart if my shot didn't go as planned. This allowed us to cut out and time wasted with lateral moves back and forth to the cart and we were able to maintain a constant progression to the hole. Our pace of play had increased and we loved it...until we would caught up to the groups ahead of us. Eventually we would play through.

 

Let me know what you think. Check out my album in my profile for pictures.

 

Oh ya, this system works for groups of 4 as well.

 

Interesting, and if it works for you, great, but to me it seems like another solution in search of a problem.  The issue isn't the clubs, or can an individual have the clubs he needs, it's how the cart is operated.  Drop off one player, with the club(s) he thinks he'll need (club selection shouldn't take more than 15 seconds or so and if he needs to, he can grab 3 or 4.......then go to the other ball.  Play when ready.  Rinse and repeat.

 

Too many people drive to one ball, watch while that player plays, and then go to the next ball........all freaking day long.  Some 4-balls are so bad as to drive BOTH carts to each ball and watch each other.  Other than everyone driving off the tee, there should hardly ever be a moment in a 4-ball when someone isn't hitting a golf ball, or at least about to!  There's nothing wrong with moving ahead of other players either.......be smart and keep to the opposite side of the fairway, but get to the general vicinity of your ball.

 

My buddy and I played a quick 2-ball yesterday in 2:20.  We waited on every shot from 16 on in, and played through one group on the front.  We DID NOT RUSH, as we're both intent on winning our little match.  This isn't a case of speed golf, but rather 2 guys who generally keep it in play and simply move with a sense of purpose.

 

It ain't rocket surgery......  ;-)

post #211 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

 

Interesting, and if it works for you, great, but to me it seems like another solution in search of a problem.  The issue isn't the clubs, or can an individual have the clubs he needs, it's how the cart is operated.  Drop off one player, with the club(s) he thinks he'll need (club selection shouldn't take more than 15 seconds or so and if he needs to, he can grab 3 or 4.......then go to the other ball.  Play when ready.  Rinse and repeat.

 

Too many people drive to one ball, watch while that player plays, and then go to the next ball........all freaking day long.  Some 4-balls are so bad as to drive BOTH carts to each ball and watch each other.  Other than everyone driving off the tee, there should hardly ever be a moment in a 4-ball when someone isn't hitting a golf ball, or at least about to!  There's nothing wrong with moving ahead of other players either.......be smart and keep to the opposite side of the fairway, but get to the general vicinity of your ball.

 

My buddy and I played a quick 2-ball yesterday in 2:20.  We waited on every shot from 16 on in, and played through one group on the front.  We DID NOT RUSH, as we're both intent on winning our little match.  This isn't a case of speed golf, but rather 2 guys who generally keep it in play and simply move with a sense of purpose.

 

It ain't rocket surgery......  " src="http://files.thesandtrap.com//images/smilies/new/a2_wink.gif">

 



EXACTLY!!!

In the short time I've been back playing, this more then anything else seems to cause the majority of slow play I've personally seen. Maybe its because I usually go out as a single and rarely know the people I'm playing with, but I just don't get the need to stand and watch someone else hit their shot. As soon as your done, grab your club/putter and get to your next shot. If the guy/gal your with lost their ball, take your shot first and THEN go help them find it. If you get to the tee box before the guy with "honors" gets there, who cares, hit away. If your on the green and the guy in the bunker forgot his SW and has to go back to the cart to get it, don't wait for him to get back, putt out.

I wouldn't call pace of play an obsession for me personally, but it definitly factors into how enjoyable the round is.
post #212 of 252

It all comes down to doing common sense things to speed up the pace.   In similar thread like this, I think it was "Dave in FL" who replied simply "move."    It really comes down to that.  

 

To OP's title of this thread - some folks have things to do, place to go immediately after golf outing.   And they may have paid good money to play the round.   People who want to see 4 hour round is not obsessed with slow play.  They are annoyed with slow pace golf which people don't apply common sense to play at reasonable pace.

post #213 of 252

There is more to it than time. There is a frustration factor playing behind slow golfers if you can't get around them. They are rarely just slow and it can be a buzz kill watching it unfold from behind.

post #214 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

Interesting, and if it works for you, great, but to me it seems like another solution in search of a problem.  The issue isn't the clubs, or can an individual have the clubs he needs, it's how the cart is operated.  Drop off one player, with the club(s) he thinks he'll need (club selection shouldn't take more than 15 seconds or so and if he needs to, he can grab 3 or 4.......then go to the other ball.  Play when ready.  Rinse and repeat.

 

Too many people drive to one ball, watch while that player plays, and then go to the next ball........all freaking day long.  Some 4-balls are so bad as to drive BOTH carts to each ball and watch each other.  Other than everyone driving off the tee, there should hardly ever be a moment in a 4-ball when someone isn't hitting a golf ball, or at least about to!  There's nothing wrong with moving ahead of other players either.......be smart and keep to the opposite side of the fairway, but get to the general vicinity of your ball.

 

My buddy and I played a quick 2-ball yesterday in 2:20.  We waited on every shot from 16 on in, and played through one group on the front.  We DID NOT RUSH, as we're both intent on winning our little match.  This isn't a case of speed golf, but rather 2 guys who generally keep it in play and simply move with a sense of purpose.

 

It ain't rocket surgery......  ;-)

I have to disagree that this solution is in search of the problem. Over 190,000 golfers signed the USGA pledge to play faster golf and stating that they care about the pace of play. So 190,000 have identified this as a problem and want to fix it. Unfortunately their solution is a pledge. We all think we play fast golf and point the finger else where. but i believe if an entire golf course were to adopt this method of play, people would play faster without even thinking about it. here is the link to that pledge  http://www.usga.org/MicroSite.aspx?id=21474856307 

 

check out some of the other articles on that page and you will find how serious of a problem this is to the USGA. they are trying to shave seconds. one article said that if a group tees off 15-30 seconds late, it can result in 30 minutes add to the round on average. They were also looking into a rule change for time to search for a lost ball. down to 3 minutes from 5. They are investing tons of money into finding a solution because more people are leaving the game due to slow play, than joining. They even call slow play the bane of the industry. 

 

No body wants to feel "rushed" when playing golf, and nobody wants to play behind a group that isn't "rushing". that is a lose-lose situation. 

post #215 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

There is more to it than time. There is a frustration factor playing behind slow golfers if you can't get around them. They are rarely just slow and it can be a buzz kill watching it unfold from behind.

 

Yeah.  Nothing like watching a complete stupidity unfold in front of you.  We once waited on the tee and got to see the most amazing show ever.  These guys were apparently far too concerned about who was away.  They drove to the first ball, took a reading with a laser.  Both got back in the cart and drove 20 yards to the second ball.  Took a reading.  Both got back in the cart again and drove back to the first ball.  The guy took another reading, then looked at the trees for wind, picked a club, took two practice swings, moved behind his ball to get the line, finally stepped up and addressed the ball and hit.  Then they still had to both get back in the cart, drive back to the second ball, and the procedure was repeated.  It was by far the longest I've ever seen 2 players take to play their second shots.  The 2 guys they were playing with had both hit before those guys finished the second laser reading, and they hadn't even decided whose turn it was yet.  While they were screwing around, my whole group could have played through and been putting out, without even being rushed.  That isn't an exaggeration.  We had caught them on the 8th hole, and thankfully they quit after 9 - at least we passed them and never saw them again.

 

Those of us blessed with decisively analytical minds are constantly amazed at the total lack cognitive reasoning demonstrated by so many golfers. :loco: 

post #216 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

There is more to it than time. There is a frustration factor playing behind slow golfers if you can't get around them. They are rarely just slow and it can be a buzz kill watching it unfold from behind.

 

When I am behind a group like that I try real hard to just not watch.  Watching the stupidity unfold adds insult to the slow play injury.

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