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What's the rush? Golfs obsession with slow play - Page 13

post #217 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

Yeah.  Nothing like watching a complete stupidity unfold in front of you.  We once waited on the tee and got to see the most amazing show ever.  These guys were apparently far too concerned about who was away.  They drove to the first ball, took a reading with a laser.  Both got back in the cart and drove 20 yards to the second ball.  Took a reading.  Both got back in the cart again and drove back to the first ball.  The guy took another reading, then looked at the trees for wind, picked a club, took two practice swings, moved behind his ball to get the line, finally stepped up and addressed the ball and hit.  Then they still had to both get back in the cart, drive back to the second ball, and the procedure was repeated.  It was by far the longest I've ever seen 2 players take to play their second shots.  The 2 guys they were playing with had both hit before those guys finished the second laser reading, and they hadn't even decided whose turn it was yet.  While they were screwing around, my whole group could have played through and been putting out, without even being rushed.  That isn't an exaggeration.  We had caught them on the 8th hole, and thankfully they quit after 9 - at least we passed them and never saw them again.

 

Those of us blessed with decisively analytical minds are constantly amazed at the total lack cognitive reasoning demonstrated by so many golfers. :loco: 


I assume this happened in CO. I swear CO is the dumb golfer capital of the world, I've seen it all this year. I played Thanksgiving and though the slow people were behind me I couldn't help noticing. I was the first time of the day and the group behind me was just getting to #9 green as we walked off 18. A few groups played through them but sheesh. We didn't exactly tear it up either, about 2.75 hours as twosome.

 

Honestly I blame the courses. In their desperation to take in as much money as possible they rarely enforce anything. As long as they let people do whatever they want it's going to be a problem. Crazy thing is the ones that do police the course get bad social media reviews from the bozos. Riverdale is one of the courses that gets badmouthed on-line. I don't play there often but I can't remember ever getting stuck behind a group there. Just about every time I've been the a ranger stops and asks what group we are to check our time and no matter who I play with we're usually 10-15 minutes fast. I wish more would follow their lead. Pull up the back tees and get people moving.

post #218 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by JgWoods View Post

I have to disagree that this solution is in search of the problem. Over 190,000 golfers signed the USGA pledge to play faster golf and stating that they care about the pace of play. So 190,000 have identified this as a problem and want to fix it. Unfortunately their solution is a pledge. We all think we play fast golf and point the finger else where. but i believe if an entire golf course were to adopt this method of play, people would play faster without even thinking about it. here is the link to that pledge  http://www.usga.org/MicroSite.aspx?id=21474856307 

check out some of the other articles on that page and you will find how serious of a problem this is to the USGA. they are trying to shave seconds. one article said that if a group tees off 15-30 seconds late, it can result in 30 minutes add to the round on average. They were also looking into a rule change for time to search for a lost ball. down to 3 minutes from 5. They are investing tons of money into finding a solution because more people are leaving the game due to slow play, than joining. They even call slow play the bane of the industry. 

No body wants to feel "rushed" when playing golf, and nobody wants to play behind a group that isn't "rushing". that is a lose-lose situation. 

I don't disagree with the problem, quite the contrary. I just disagree that a silly little trailer attached to back of a golf cart will have any impact on it.
post #219 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

I don't disagree with the problem, quite the contrary. I just disagree that a silly little trailer attached to back of a golf cart will have any impact on it.

I totally understand why you would think that. I thought the same thing until I tried it and realized the impact this could have on the game. We ran a test at a local public course and found this system does work. My 70
year old grandfather had no problems keeping up with us younger guys.

With all the talk about slow play, I'm surprised some golfers are resistant to trying new innovative ways to play the game. You can't knock it until you try it. I just want golfers to be open minded to finding a solution as a whole instead of pointing the finger elsewhere
post #220 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by JgWoods View Post

I totally understand why you would think that. I thought the same thing until I tried it and realized the impact this could have on the game. We ran a test at a local public course and found this system does work. My 70
year old grandfather had no problems keeping up with us younger guys.

With all the talk about slow play, I'm surprised some golfers are resistant to trying new innovative ways to play the game. You can't knock it until you try it. I just want golfers to be open minded to finding a solution as a whole instead of pointing the finger elsewhere

Will it get me around faster than 2:20? If not, the issue isn't the equipment, it's the process and attitude of those that don't play with a sense of concern and purpose.

Sorry, I'm not big into gimmicks......and if you're riding in a cart and need to be dropped off with your entire bag you're more a part of the problem, than the solution. At least in my ever so humble opinion. a1_smile.gif
post #221 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

Sorry, I'm not big into gimmicks......and if you're riding in a cart and need to be dropped off with your entire bag you're more a part of the problem, than the solution. At least in my ever so humble opinion. a1_smile.gif

 

IMHO, too.  I often take my bag out of the cart and walk to my ball.   I do it to get some exercise.   I don't think it saves me whole lot of time.   If it does, it's almost negligible. 

post #222 of 252
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JgWoods View Post


I totally understand why you would think that. I thought the same thing until I tried it and realized the impact this could have on the game. We ran a test at a local public course and found this system does work. My 70
year old grandfather had no problems keeping up with us younger guys.

With all the talk about slow play, I'm surprised some golfers are resistant to trying new innovative ways to play the game. You can't knock it until you try it. I just want golfers to be open minded to finding a solution as a whole instead of pointing the finger elsewhere

Walking with the detached cart isn't going to save much if any time from just grabbing the clubs you might need and laying the ones you don't use on the ground.  There has to be some time spent hitching and unhitching the cart to the motorized cart which would equal out to the time spent pulling a few clubs.

 

It's good to come up with innovative ways to speed up a round, but I'm not sure I want a bunch of drunk guys driving carts around with pull carts loaded with their clubs dragging behind, sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

post #223 of 252

IMO availability of clubs and being indecisive isn't the problem. I can live with the guy that likes to pretend he's Jim Furyk. The number one thing that I see jamming things up is the search for errant shots. I truly believe far too many play further back than they should. It puts pressure on them to perform and the result is trying to unsuccessfully kill the ball. Nearly everyone thinks they hit the ball better and further than they actually do. Everything from the tees they play to their club choices are based on their best hits not their average.

post #224 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

Will it get me around faster than 2:20? If not, the issue isn't the equipment, it's the process and attitude of those that don't play with a sense of concern and purpose.

Sorry, I'm not big into gimmicks......and if you're riding in a cart and need to be dropped off with your entire bag you're more a part of the problem, than the solution. At least in my ever so humble opinion. a1_smile.gif

To answer your question, yes it will make you play faster that 2:20. But playing in that time on a Monday is doable. Try to do that on Saturday on a busy public course. And it's not being dropped off that saves time, its being able to progress after that next shot. If your ball doesn't land close to your partners, you will have to make a lateral move back to cart.

For example, during our test, a golfer was in front of a sand trap. Took his pitching wedge to loft over the sand onto the green. Chunked it into the trap. Now he had to make a trip back to the cart to get a higher lofted wedge, but thought "I'll just make this club work" bladed the ball over the green and out of bounds. If he would have disconnected, his clubs would be readily available, not time wasting lateral moves back to cart.. This is just one example.

I do appreciate your feedback because my goal is to improve this game for all of us. I'm open to any ideas on how to make this system more efficient, or other systems you've seen or adapted to your game.
post #225 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by JgWoods View Post

To answer your question, yes it will make you play faster that 2:20. But playing in that time on a Monday is doable. Try to do that on Saturday on a busy public course. And it's not being dropped off that saves time, its being able to progress after that next shot. If your ball doesn't land close to your partners, you will have to make a lateral move back to cart.

For example, during our test, a golfer was in front of a sand trap. Took his pitching wedge to loft over the sand onto the green. Chunked it into the trap. Now he had to make a trip back to the cart to get a higher lofted wedge, but thought "I'll just make this club work" bladed the ball over the green and out of bounds. If he would have disconnected, his clubs would be readily available, not time wasting lateral moves back to cart.. This is just one example.

I do appreciate your feedback because my goal is to improve this game for all of us. I'm open to any ideas on how to make this system more efficient, or other systems you've seen or adapted to your game.

If the golfer in question had simply brought all his wedges with him, along with his putter he would have been prepared. Again, no need for a gimmick, when the issue is one of process and a sense of genuine concern for keeping things moving.
post #226 of 252

If you don't have the right club I can't think of any courses I play where the cart path is more than a few steps from the green. Even if I am on the other side of the green I can ask the group to play on if I have to walk back. I can't think of any time I exit the cart with just one wedge. Even if the ball is in a bunker I typically take all my wedges because I may not get it out clean. Gadgets aren't going to make people play smarter. It's more than being realistic about a successful shot. You have no idea what the lie is until you get over the ball. Just because I see the ball 10 feet from the green I don't think yep that's an automatic 58* wedge.

post #227 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

Walking with the detached cart isn't going to save much if any time from just grabbing the clubs you might need and laying the ones you don't use on the ground.  There has to be some time spent hitching and unhitching the cart to the motorized cart which would equal out to the time spent pulling a few clubs.

It's good to come up with innovative ways to speed up a round, but I'm not sure I want a bunch of drunk guys driving carts around with pull carts loaded with their clubs dragging behind, sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

Thank you for your feedback. The lever is spring loaded and with one downward motion, the cart is detached. But this just sets you up to make a faster progression on your next shot. If you chunk, slice, hook, or hit into sand, you can progress on your own to that shot without going back to the cart. If you hit a great shot, walk back to the cart and hitch a ride further down the hole. But if we hit great shots all the time, slow play wouldn't be an issue.

And I totally agree it could abused by drunk golfers. But If the group is drinking/drunk, odds are they won't be playing a fast round anyway. I saw a guy roll a golf cart on the course before. Anything can be abused.

Please continue to ask any questions or comments about this system I would be glad to answer. And check out my pics in my profile. Thank you again for the input
post #228 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by JgWoods View Post

Thank you for your feedback. The lever is spring loaded and with one downward motion, the cart is detached. But this just sets you up to make a faster progression on your next shot. If you chunk, slice, hook, or hit into sand, you can progress on your own to that shot without going back to the cart. If you hit a great shot, walk back to the cart and hitch a ride further down the hole. But if we hit great shots all the time, slow play wouldn't be an issue.

And I totally agree it could abused by drunk golfers. But If the group is drinking/drunk, odds are they won't be playing a fast round anyway. I saw a guy roll a golf cart on the course before. Anything can be abused.

Please continue to ask any questions or comments about this system I would be glad to answer. And check out my pics in my profile. Thank you again for the input

 

Just a possibility they won't be fast?:roll:

 

We saw a group of merry golfers moving pretty fast, but they ended up teeing off the wrong box. They almost got punched by an irate golfer (it was his next hole) who told them to get off that tee box or... Well, they left their balls on the fairway and went to the correct tee, with some help from various witnesses.:-\

post #229 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by JgWoods View Post


Thank you for your feedback. The lever is spring loaded and with one downward motion, the cart is detached. But this just sets you up to make a faster progression on your next shot. If you chunk, slice, hook, or hit into sand, you can progress on your own to that shot without going back to the cart. If you hit a great shot, walk back to the cart and hitch a ride further down the hole. But if we hit great shots all the time, slow play wouldn't be an issue.

And I totally agree it could abused by drunk golfers. But If the group is drinking/drunk, odds are they won't be playing a fast round anyway. I saw a guy roll a golf cart on the course before. Anything can be abused.

Please continue to ask any questions or comments about this system I would be glad to answer. And check out my pics in my profile. Thank you again for the input

You do realize that golf carts don't hold your clubs in place under a secret lock and key, right?  As it is currently, I can detach my bag and take it with me wherever I'm going on the course in about 2 seconds.  This happens occasionally when I'm on a hole that is cart paths only and I hit it on the complete other side of the fairway from the path, while my riding partner hits it near the path.  I'll just grab my bag and say "see you at the green."  And for anybody who grabs one club, walks across the fairway, flubs it, then walks back across the fairway to get one new club, and repeat as necessary, its them that is the problem ... not the lack of club flexibility.

 

I think it's a pretty safe bet that nobody on earth (except for perhaps you and your dad) has ever said "The only thing keeping me from playing faster is the difficulty I have in retrieving multiple clubs from the cart."

 

And when its not cart path only, you can drive the cart just as close to your ball as you could roll a pull cart.

 

Sorry for sounding harsh but ... This is a bad idea that will not work.

post #230 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

If the golfer in question had simply brought all his wedges with him, along with his putter he would have been prepared. Again, no need for a gimmick, when the issue is one of process and a sense of genuine concern for keeping things moving.

And for the last 10 years that is how I've played the game. Bringing multiple clubs all over the course. But for me, visualizing my shot, then bringing more clubs for all potential mishaps brought down confidence in my originally planned shot. If this isn't for you, I understand, you've never tried it. And 2:20 is an awesome pace for 18 holes. Almost an hour faster that the average expected to play 18. What tips do you have for the rest of us wanting to play that fast? What are you doing different then the rest of us? And is 2:20 an average round or the anomily?
post #231 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by JgWoods View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

I don't disagree with the problem, quite the contrary. I just disagree that a silly little trailer attached to back of a golf cart will have any impact on it.

I totally understand why you would think that. I thought the same thing until I tried it and realized the impact this could have on the game. We ran a test at a local public course and found this system does work. My 70
year old grandfather had no problems keeping up with us younger guys.

With all the talk about slow play, I'm surprised some golfers are resistant to trying new innovative ways to play the game. You can't knock it until you try it. I just want golfers to be open minded to finding a solution as a whole instead of pointing the finger elsewhere

 

Train people how to use a cart and this is completely unnecessary.  The issue isn't engineering, it's education and enforcement.  You either have to have a modified pull cart or a modified riding cart, and I can't think of a golf course anywhere which will make an outlay for such modifications.  And if a player isn't even willing to make a minor change in his playing habits to get around the course more efficiently, he sure isn't going to buy or pay for the use of such a gadget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JgWoods View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

Will it get me around faster than 2:20? If not, the issue isn't the equipment, it's the process and attitude of those that don't play with a sense of concern and purpose.

Sorry, I'm not big into gimmicks......and if you're riding in a cart and need to be dropped off with your entire bag you're more a part of the problem, than the solution. At least in my ever so humble opinion. a1_smile.gif

To answer your question, yes it will make you play faster that 2:20. But playing in that time on a Monday is doable. Try to do that on Saturday on a busy public course. And it's not being dropped off that saves time, its being able to progress after that next shot. If your ball doesn't land close to your partners, you will have to make a lateral move back to cart.

For example, during our test, a golfer was in front of a sand trap. Took his pitching wedge to loft over the sand onto the green. Chunked it into the trap. Now he had to make a trip back to the cart to get a higher lofted wedge, but thought "I'll just make this club work" bladed the ball over the green and out of bounds. If he would have disconnected, his clubs would be readily available, not time wasting lateral moves back to cart.. This is just one example.

I do appreciate your feedback because my goal is to improve this game for all of us. I'm open to any ideas on how to make this system more efficient, or other systems you've seen or adapted to your game.

 

A friend and I played a couple of years ago on a late fall weekday when the course was nearly empty.  We played 18 holes in just over 1:30, by the rules, without rushing.  When a cart is used properly the delays you seek to fix with your invention don't even exist. We drive to the first ball (doesn't matter who is away, we just drive to the most convenient one), Player A looks at his GPS, grabs a couple of clubs, and player B heads for his ball.  By the time he gets there Player A has played his shot and is starting to walk up the fairway or back to the cart, whichever makes the most sense.  Player B hits, hops back on board and picks up Player A and they are off.  

 

Time taken?  Less than a minute for the whole process.  Doesn't matter if Player A mishits his shot because he is reconnected with his clubs on the cart faster than he could walk to the ball.  (And, by the way, we played through two slower groups during the round.)

 

That's how a cart is supposed to be used.  If isn't happening like that, then the carts don't need re-engineering, the players need retraining. :doh: 

post #232 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

You do realize that golf carts don't hold your clubs in place under a secret lock and key, right?  As it is currently, I can detach my bag and take it with me wherever I'm going on the course in about 2 seconds.  This happens occasionally when I'm on a hole that is cart paths only and I hit it on the complete other side of the fairway from the path, while my riding partner hits it near the path.  I'll just grab my bag and say "see you at the green."  And for anybody who grabs one club, walks across the fairway, flubs it, then walks back across the fairway to get one new club, and repeat as necessary, its them that is the problem ... not the lack of club flexibility.

 

I think it's a pretty safe bet that nobody on earth (except for perhaps you and your dad) has ever said "The only thing keeping me from playing faster is the difficulty I have in retrieving multiple clubs from the cart."

 

And when its not cart path only, you can drive the cart just as close to your ball as you could roll a pull cart.

 

+1.   Delays happen b/c some golfers are too lazy to detach their bag and go separate ways to save time.   The idler just sit in the cart, waiting for his partner to hit and put back his club, get on the cart, then drive to hit the other ball.  

 

When my tee shot is lost, I walk to the area to get a head start in finding my ball while the others are doing their stuff.  I also do that to find others' lost balls.  Most partners understand and appreciate my behavior.   It's the clueless ones who are waiting all others to finish, get to where his ball is lost and then look for it for 5 minutes (b/c he read it somewhere that one is allowed to search for his ball for 5 minutes).    The question for this thread shouldn't be "what's the rush?"   It should be "why play so slow in clueless fashion?"

post #233 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

You do realize that golf carts don't hold your clubs in place under a secret lock and key, right?  As it is currently, I can detach my bag and take it with me wherever I'm going on the course in about 2 seconds.  This happens occasionally when I'm on a hole that is cart paths only and I hit it on the complete other side of the fairway from the path, while my riding partner hits it near the path.  I'll just grab my bag and say "see you at the green."  And for anybody who grabs one club, walks across the fairway, flubs it, then walks back across the fairway to get one new club, and repeat as necessary, its them that is the problem ... not the lack of club flexibility.

 

I think it's a pretty safe bet that nobody on earth (except for perhaps you and your dad) has ever said "The only thing keeping me from playing faster is the difficulty I have in retrieving multiple clubs from the cart."

 

And when its not cart path only, you can drive the cart just as close to your ball as you could roll a pull cart.

 

Sorry for sounding harsh but ... This is a bad idea that will not work.

 

 

I guess for those of us who normally walk, this is a simple and logical alternative...

post #234 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

A friend and I played a couple of years ago on a late fall weekday when the course was nearly empty.  We played 18 holes in just over 1:30

 

Gee, I thought my wife and I play fast (just a little over 3 hours while walking 6500 yard course up and down the hills).   The fasted we played was 2 hours and 30 minutes with cart.  1:30 is hard to imagine.   Was there anything to the course which made 1:30 pace possible or were you just making hole in ones at will :-)

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