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What's the rush? Golfs obsession with slow play - Page 4

post #55 of 252

All I can say is, I'm glad I don't play with most of the people in this thread.  Granted, it also sucked today having to play a 5 hour round with people who felt compelled to write down scores while parked next to the green and even once in the middle of the fairway after everybody had played their approach shots.  Somewhere there is a happy medium.

post #56 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

Do you play quick because that's how you enjoy playing a round of golf?  If you owned your own course that no one else played on would you still play a round in less than 2 hours?  If not what's the motivation to want to play so fast?  It sounds like some of the guys get really stressed out (like my friend) if a round takes longer than 3 hours, so I'm curious if in the end you're golfing out of enjoyment and relaxation or are you driven so much by the goal to get better you're just trying to get as many rounds in as possible? 

That's just the pace I play at... I don't ever really think about the time it's taking me when I play. I know my yardages with my clubs pretty well and so when I get to the ball, I shoot my target real quick get my yardage and go. I also don't spend a lot of time looking for balls if I happen to loose one... if it's gone, it's gone. On top of that I'm always thinking about the next shot when I'm in the cart so I have an idea of what I'm going to do before I get to the ball.  If I'm with somebody who takes longer that doesn't bother me in the slightest; like I said in my previous post, the only time I feel a little stressed is when I feel like we're holding somebody else up. The way I look at it I don't get any extra rounds in playing quick because with the exception of a few times a year I only play 18 when I play so whether that takes 2 hours or 4 hours it makes no difference. The bottom line is that I still play golf because it's fun... I do enjoy the improving and the practice but the time that it takes me to finish a round isn't something I think about, it's just a result of how I play.

post #57 of 252

If I play golf on a Saturday or Sunday, I go in knowing its going to be a 4.5- 5 hour round. If everyone on the course is moving along I have no issues. I just hate waiting 5-10 minutes between each shot especially when you get "in the groove".

*Play "ready golf"!

*If you have 2 open holes ahead of you, let the group pushing you through.

*If your going to hit it a whopping 190 yds off the tee every time, you shouldn't play from the "tips".

*Why do you insist on sending out a search crew 50 yds deep into the tall weeds?

post #58 of 252

http://www.kscgolf.org.hk/eng/background.html

 

That's one location, 3 courses, on an island, 8,000,000 people. Semi-govt org.

post #59 of 252

I'm glad I don't live in a big city. I couldn't take a steady diet of 5 hour rounds. Now today I played in a 6 man scramble and the round took almost 5 hours. That was OK as there was a lot of socializing going on. Not a serious tournament in other words. But during the week(I'm retired) when I play with my buddies we play in just under 3 hours. We have the course basically to ourselves. We play ready golf so there is no reason for 4-5 hour rounds. 

 

Oh well........I'm spoiled. Retirement golf will do it to ya.a2_wink.gif

post #60 of 252

A threesome on an essentially empty course, (the OP said there was nothing on the three holes ahead of them) in carts, should not have to rush to get around in 3-1/2 hours.  If the guy in the OP's group was shooting for a 2-1/2 hour round then I think the OP would have a case.  But 3-1/2 hours?  With a threesome?  On an empty course?

 

If you feel like you have to rush to get around in 3-1/2 hours in these circumstances then there are systemic time wasters built into your play which you should eliminate.  A previous poster gave an excellent list of what some of them might be.

 

There is a certain rhythm to the game and standing around cooling your heels while someone wastes time for no good reason is not my idea of a relaxing fun day on the golf course.

post #61 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipazoid View Post

 

I understand - and so would the faster players - that if there's nowhere to go, there's nowhere to go.

 

But what I highlighted seems to be a contradiction. If you're playing in 4 hours or less as a foursome, there's not going to be too many instances of having to let players through.

 

'Courtesy' or 'etiquette' or whatever, to me it's just a matter of common sense. If there's holes open in front of you & the group behind is crawling up your butt, let them through. Don't care how many are in your group & in theirs. So this 'Single players not having standing', that just sounds like a handy excuse to not do what just makes sense to do. And I still don't understand why the slower group would have any kind of issue. You want to take your time, fine. Understand that others don't. Let them through. Then everyone has a nice day.

 

Exactly when is this practical? For example:

 

- It's Tuesday morning. My foursome has the first tee time at 6:00 A.M. There are no players in front of us.

- Our club sends off 2 singles and 2 doubles starting at 6:30 (Again, I hate this, but it happens regularly)

- The singles will be 'crawling up our butt' by 7:00

- According to you, we exercise common sense and let the first single through. One hole later, we use the same rationale and let the next single through. After another hole, we're going to be dealing with the twosomes.

- By the time we 'exercise common sense', our round that was going to take 3:45 is now going to take 4:30+.

 

This is in no way an extreme example. While we will virtually never get pressed by another foursome, as a foursome we OFTEN get behind a slower group whether they be three- or foursomes. We should pitch a fit and insist on being allowed to play through because we're faster? Hey, I'd appreciate it if they waved us through, but based on the argument you make, there would be conflict on the course every time we play except when the course is fully booked, which is typically only on the weekends.

 

I stand corrected on my previous statement about course priority. I just read the USGA's take on pace of play and their mention of 'priority'. According to the new(?) position, groups playing longer matches have priority over shorter matches, with no mention of the number of golfers. That's a shame, as that position can only lead to tension on the golf course as every group that perceives itself to be faster now feels entitled to play through, including singles. It places groups like ours in an untenable position: We already play swiftly, but we're no match for a single or twosome of reasonably skilled golfers. We would never finish if we let the the aforementioned groups through every timer they got behind us.

 

I began playing again in May after a 6.5 year layoff - guess the rules have changed. It's good to know that all those days that my wife and I play in the afternoon and spend waiting behind a bunch of hacks should now come to an end, plus I'm encouraged that I can go play as a single and just demand that everyone let me through so that I can go about my business. Previously, I did my best not to go out as a single because of my dated understanding of 'course priority'. Now, though, I can play an additional 3 rounds/week with my new found knowledge.

 

Coming through, b!tches!

post #62 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinItAll View Post

 

Exactly when is this practical? For example:

 

- It's Tuesday morning. My foursome has the first tee time at 6:00 A.M. There are no players in front of us.

- Our club sends off 2 singles and 2 doubles starting at 6:30 (Again, I hate this, but it happens regularly)

- The singles will be 'crawling up our butt' by 7:00

- According to you, we exercise common sense and let the first single through. One hole later, we use the same rationale and let the next single through. After another hole, we're going to be dealing with the twosomes.

- By the time we 'exercise common sense', our round that was going to take 3:45 is now going to take 4:30+.

 

 

You tee off a half hour ahead of the group behind you & it only takes them 30 mins to catch your group? Either they're a bunch of Jackrabbits or you're playing slow.

 

Look, it's pretty simple. If you're a foursome & singles or doubles are crawling up your butt, let them through. Doesn't matter if you don't like that your club does it. I mean, what's the alternative? Force them to play at your pace? I don't see how that benefits anyone - you'll have someone pushing you all day & he/they will be frustrated.

 

Also don't understand 3:45 going to 4:30. It takes 45 mins to let a couple groups through?


Edited by zipazoid - 6/24/12 at 7:53am
post #63 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut View Post

 

he's not in a hurry......You are ruining his fun because you are slow and forcing him to wait around for you.   Do you enjoy waiting in line 2hrs at the DMV to renew your plates?   Waiting for slow golfers is the same feeling..............The skinny on slow play is to keep pace with the group ahead.   When the course is empty, different rules apply.  For example, if you have the first tee time of the day you have  no business being on the course if you can't play under 4hrs.  

 

  Or if it's just a slow time of day and there are several empty holes ahead.  If I pair up with guys with a lot of empty course ahead and they are playing too slow.....I ditch them.  problem solved.....a win win both....they are happy not to feel rushed, and I am happy not to wait on them.  I can tolerate a 4.5hr round if there is nowhere to go.  If the course is full and there are no gaps, I deal with it.  If I see 1 group ahead not keeping up and causing delay, you can bet i'll be calling the pro shot to get a marshal on them. 

I don't think many people on this site can honestly say that being out on the golf course (even while waiting to tee off) is analogous to waiting at the DMV.  The comparison sounds rather whiney, to me.  I think this is the mentality that the OP is confronting.  If people are absolutely incapable of having fun during slow golf (even if faster golf is preferred), than they have their own personal, psychological problems.  Life is short, and learning to not be in agony throughout it is a good skill, even while waiting in line at the DMV.  Certainly you and others could muster up the inner zen to be happy and have fun while waiting on a beautiful golf course on a wonderful morning/afternoon.  If you are ditching your friends because the round is "intolerable" at that particular pace, I personally think your priorities are slightly out of order and you are missing the true spirit of the friendly, relaxing, and competitive game of golf that we all enjoy. (keep in mind, my intentions were to voice an opinion, not to be hostile.  I apologize if it comes across as otherwise).

That being said, I play ready golf at a quick pace, and typically complete 9 holes in around 2 hours even with our typical 3some, but I by no means am trying to get the round over with, or blaze through my time on the course which is my remedy for ~50-60 hour work weeks.

post #64 of 252

I completely agree dude. I know not everyone feels the same way but I love golf so much that I have absolutely no problem waiting to hit every shot for 6 hours if it's a beautiful day. I mean... we're on the golf course... we have amazing lives, nothing to complain about. Then again, I never have played in 6 hours because I play very quickly but what I'm trying to say is that I don't mind playing slowly because when I'm at home all I want to do is be out on the course. For this reason, I'm certainly going to try and become a member at a club next summer.

post #65 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipazoid View Post

 

You tee off a half hour ahead of the group behind you & it only takes them 30 mins to catch your group? Either they're a bunch of Jackrabbits or you're playing slow.

 

Look, it's pretty simple. If you're a foursome & singles or doubles are crawling up your butt, let them through. Doesn't matter if you don't like that your club does it. I mean, what's the alternative? Force them to play at your pace? I don't see how that benefits anyone - you'll have someone pushing you all day & he/they will be frustrated.

 

Also don't understand 3:45 going to 4:30. It takes 45 mins to let a couple groups through?

 

- Yes, letting four groups through will add 30+ minutes to a round

- No, a single catching a foursome in 30 minutes doesn't mean we're playing slow

- They'll be frustrated as opposed to us being frustrated? Golf was played for centuries without some absurd 'let every single through' mentality

 

As I said previously, if I'm a single or a twosome, I don't mind waiting behind a foursome that's playing at a reasonable pace. I know what I'm getting myself into when I tee it up. As another poster said, I'm on the course to enjoy myself and have no problem pacing myself accordingly.

 

Once again, I think it's a golf course's responsibility to pair people together to help eliminate these issues. Sending out a wave of singles isn't fair to the groups in front of them if it's supposed to be a 'rule' that they be allowed to play through as soon as they catch up.

 

Look, it's pretty simple: If you're a single/twosome, ask to be paired with others.

post #66 of 252

Actually, it's simpler than that. Allow faster players through.

 

So, by your reasoning, it's better to frustrate four groups of players than your group.

 

And I still don't understand why it makes you frustrated to allow a faster group through. Cuz the clubhouse should have done a better job in pairing them up? I'd like to hear that conversation on the tee of a par 3 when a single drives up & you're still on the tee - "We're not letting you through cuz you shouldn't have been allowed to go out as a single."

 

I'm sure the single will love hearing that & will totally understand why he's not going to be let through when he clearly should be.

 

No conflict or frustration there.

post #67 of 252
Thread Starter 

That was my point.  I get that pace of play is important and we all have an obligation to maintain pace but it just seems that some are losing perspective that golf is a recreational sport that should be enjoyed, not rushed. 

 

I noticed that many of you speed demons are also excellent golfers, so maybe that's the difference. 

 

I'm sure it was eons ago that you hit your driver only 200 yards into the rough, had to find your ball then figure out what the best club to hit out of the mess you were in.  After your best attempt, your club gets caught in the thick grass and barely goes 10 yards and is now resting on rough or the 2nd cut.  Your 3rd shot would be a 3 wood, hybrid or long iron that lands in the sand trap and then a fatly hit sand shot causes you to 2-3 putt to get the ball in the cup.  If you think you can do that for 18 holes in 2 hours while not rushing and still having a good time, I'd like to see it. 

 

I had friends tell me in my first days of golf that the worst day on the golf course was better than the best day in the office.  I guess that's no longer true as people seem to be in a rush to get their 18 holes in and rush home or back to work.  I don't hear people talk about what a great day they had, how the fresh air, camaraderie with friends, and time spent on the course made them step back and appreciate life.  Instead I see, damn slow players on the course ruined my day, took 4.5 hours to get through the course or worse having a slow round golf compared to waiting at the DMV. 

 

If having a single digit handicap results in a change of attitude towards golf like that, I'll stick with where I'm at. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BioGolfNebraska View Post

I don't think many people on this site can honestly say that being out on the golf course (even while waiting to tee off) is analogous to waiting at the DMV.  The comparison sounds rather whiney, to me.  I think this is the mentality that the OP is confronting.  If people are absolutely incapable of having fun during slow golf (even if faster golf is preferred), than they have their own personal, psychological problems.  Life is short, and learning to not be in agony throughout it is a good skill, even while waiting in line at the DMV.  Certainly you and others could muster up the inner zen to be happy and have fun while waiting on a beautiful golf course on a wonderful morning/afternoon.  If you are ditching your friends because the round is "intolerable" at that particular pace, I personally think your priorities are slightly out of order and you are missing the true spirit of the friendly, relaxing, and competitive game of golf that we all enjoy. (keep in mind, my intentions were to voice an opinion, not to be hostile.  I apologize if it comes across as otherwise).

That being said, I play ready golf at a quick pace, and typically complete 9 holes in around 2 hours even with our typical 3some, but I by no means am trying to get the round over with, or blaze through my time on the course which is my remedy for ~50-60 hour work weeks.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamCreamer View Post

I completely agree dude. I know not everyone feels the same way but I love golf so much that I have absolutely no problem waiting to hit every shot for 6 hours if it's a beautiful day. I mean... we're on the golf course... we have amazing lives, nothing to complain about. Then again, I never have played in 6 hours because I play very quickly but what I'm trying to say is that I don't mind playing slowly because when I'm at home all I want to do is be out on the course. For this reason, I'm certainly going to try and become a member at a club next summer.

post #68 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipazoid View Post

Actually, it's simpler than that. Allow faster players through.

So, by your reasoning, it's better to frustrate four groups of players than your group.

And I still don't understand why it makes you frustrated to allow a faster group through. Cuz the clubhouse should have done a better job in pairing them up? I'd like to hear that conversation on the tee of a par 3 when a single drives up & you're still on the tee - "We're not letting you through cuz you shouldn't have been allowed to go out as a single."

I'm sure the single will love hearing that & will totally understand why he's not going to be let through when he clearly should be.

No conflict or frustration there.

I have no idea why you're so intent on putting words in my mouth, but:

- My pace of play has never been an issue at the clubs to which I've belonged.

- I wave people through regularly

- No group is EVER going to drive up to the box and still find me there. No foursome is ever going to push my foursome, and I can't remember the last time a threesome pushed us.

- Letting people through doesn't frustrate me. Letting an endless group of people through does.

- As I've said, I play golf as a foursome in under four hours, as a twosome in under three hours, and as a single in two hours or less.

- Let's see: A foursome is either frustrated letting four singles through, or four singles are frustrated having to wait. Same number of people, but the singles could have done something - played together - to avoid the issue.

- You sound like you play a lot of golf as a single. You also sound like you have no patience (which is probably why you play a lot of golf as a single).

I'm done commenting on this. If you're one of those folks that have to have the last word, get it in.
post #69 of 252

Well thank you. Here it comes.

 

All I am trying to do is understand what you're trying to say. Thus why I have posted in response to your posts. I think I got it now. You're not slow, you don't hold up other foursomes or threesomes. Great. Got it.

 

You don't like allowing a steady stream of singles through. You think they should pair up. Got it.

 

A typical course has tee times. And I am sure, if they run it properly. the try to fill those times with as many players as they can. If I call & want a, say 8am Sunday time, they're going to ask how many in my group. If I say I'm a single, they're not going to give me that time. Instead, they will tell me there's a twosome at say 8:15 & put me with them. So, if your course is allowing singles to go out, it sounds to me like they don't have much business.

 

My question for you, now with all that established (which you probably won't answer cuz you think I'm trying to argue which I'm not), is how often do you find yourself 'letting an endless group of people' (your words) through? Does this really occur that much, or are you throwing out an outrageous hypothetical to try to make your point?

post #70 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinItAll View Post

 

- Yes, letting four groups through will add 30+ minutes to a round

- No, a single catching a foursome in 30 minutes doesn't mean we're playing slow

- They'll be frustrated as opposed to us being frustrated? Golf was played for centuries without some absurd 'let every single through' mentality

 

As I said previously, if I'm a single or a twosome, I don't mind waiting behind a foursome that's playing at a reasonable pace. I know what I'm getting myself into when I tee it up. As another poster said, I'm on the course to enjoy myself and have no problem pacing myself accordingly.

 

Once again, I think it's a golf course's responsibility to pair people together to help eliminate these issues. Sending out a wave of singles isn't fair to the groups in front of them if it's supposed to be a 'rule' that they be allowed to play through as soon as they catch up.

 

Look, it's pretty simple: If you're a single/twosome, ask to be paired with others.

 

Letting a single play through should only hold you up 3 minutes or so.  If your club allows multiple singles to tee off within minutes of each other, knowing there is a foursome out ahead of them, that seems odd to me.  It would also seem like they should establish a rule of protocol for that situation (that singles should pair up if they bump into each other waiting on a foursome ahead of one of them, or that singles always have the right of way to play through) so that the members can then decide if they want to belong to that group or not.

post #71 of 252

Some basic math.

 

If you play 18 holes in 3:45, that's 225 minutes, or 12.5 minutes per hole. So after an hour, you're putting on the fifth green when the single in your example catches up to you.

 

The single has played nearly five holes in half an hour, so a little more than six minutes per hole. His total round time would normally be less than two hours. (Given my own play as a single, and in some average foursomes, I don't either of these figures are wrong. In fact, they seem pretty dead on.)

 

But, the problem is this: you're justifying nearly doubling the amount of time it takes this single to play 18 holes (30 minutes to the fifth hole, and 2:43 to play the last 13, making their round take 75% longer) just so that you don't add a few minutes (and a few %) to the amount of time it takes you to play?

 

In carts, there's no reason letting people through adds a lot of time to your round. I'll invite a single to tee off with us, let him drive ahead while we hit the head or something, and by the time we're done he's gone and out of the way. Or we drive up with him, watch him finish the hole while we re-apply sunscreen, and again, he's done by the time we're done.

 

Put another way: if it only takes the guy six minutes to play an entire hole, you could sit there and let him play the entire hole you're on FOUR TIMES and still add only 24 minutes to your round time. Or let four singles play through - each waiting until the previous single played the entire hole before teeing off - and still only add 24 minutes (10% or so) to your round's time.

 

The math doesn't add up. Letting people play through like that should not add 30+ minutes to your time. I get that you're fast. You say you regularly let people through.

 

Your bizarre example didn't help you.

post #72 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by zipazoid View Post

Well thank you. Here it comes.

All I am trying to do is understand what you're trying to say. Thus why I have posted in response to your posts. I think I got it now. You're not slow, you don't hold up other foursomes or threesomes. Great. Got it.

You don't like allowing a steady stream of singles through. You think they should pair up. Got it.

A typical course has tee times. And I am sure, if they run it properly. the try to fill those times with as many players as they can. If I call & want a, say 8am Sunday time, they're going to ask how many in my group. If I say I'm a single, they're not going to give me that time. Instead, they will tell me there's a twosome at say 8:15 & put me with them. So, if your course is allowing singles to go out, it sounds to me like they don't have much business.

My question for you, now with all that established (which you probably won't answer cuz you think I'm trying to argue which I'm not), is how often do you find yourself 'letting an endless group of people' (your words) through? Does this really occur that much, or are you throwing out an outrageous hypothetical to try to make your point?

The problem at our club, which has three 18 hole courses, occurs during the week, virtually never on the weekend. We'll typically have a flurry of foursomes very early in the A.M. (it gets very hot here), then here come the singles. I mean, back to back to back singles. The marshalls complain that the pro shop doesn't pair them, the groups that are faced with the singles breathing down their neck complain, etc.

We get a lot of resort players as well. A single will roll up, rent some clubs, and play. I know for a fact that some of them simply say, "I'd rather play alone". I get that. It becomes frustrating when there's a string of them, though.

Re: Your question about play: Our club gets 100,000 rounds/year total on our three layouts.

In all, I'd say about once a week we're faced with this issue (I play ~6 rounds/week). As I've said, letting a guy go through isn't a problem. Letting four or more folks play through becomes tiresome.

Just for the record, we let a single go through last Friday as soon as he caught us...he never waited a shot. He repaid the favor by hitting multiple balls on every shot and making us wait on him for five holes before the marshall told him to knock it off. I don't steam on the golf course - I'm just glad to be there. There were others in my group who were ready to kill the kid, though.
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