What's the rush? Golfs obsession with slow play - Page 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by solidperfect 

 

Take an example of a par four, where the better player has a longer drive. He waits for the others to hit, as they are away. As soon as they hit they rush up to their ball, whether on the green, bunker or short of the green. When the player with the longest drive finally has his turn to hit, he is often faced with multiple players encircling the green or actually walking around on the putting surface. When he hits, he is the last to arrive on the green. Often some of the other players will begin to putt out of turn, accusing him of being "slow."

 

 

       I would also accuse him as being slow. If your fellow players putt out on a regular basis without waiting, I think they are trying to tell you something,speed up your SLOW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf 

That might be your position but looking at the posts from others, like Sean above, in this thread and others, I'd say some people try to get through a round as fast as they can. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeph 


These threads are adressing slow play, not encouraging people to rush the round. Your experience on the course is not what people are talking about in all these threads. It's about rounds of 5+ hours, people being as far from ready golf as possible, taking a minute to hit each shot, reading every putt from all sides and 3-putting.
The guy you played with does not represent the people in here that discuss slow play. He's the other extreme end, which might be just as bad, or even worse. It's got nothing to do with the slow play problems though.

Unfortunately, some players think that the answer to slow play is speed golf.  Neither one is a desirable form of play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beisenhauer 

Pace of play isn't (or at least shouldn't be) about how long it takes to finish a round. That is an effect of pace of play. Pace of play is about being ready to hit when it's your turn, knowing your relief options so you can proceed without delay, hitting a provisional ball if your first may be lost so as to prevent having to return to the tee, perhaps not taking the full five minutes to which the rules otherwise entitle you to search for a lost ball, yielding to faster groups if your skill level demands a little more time to play the course, etc.

The best post in the entire thread. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWChuck 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut 

I don't sukk at golf, so it's no fun waiting on slo-mo-fo hackers who can't hit the ball in the air. 
 

 

And it probably wasn't fun for any skilled player to wait on you when you first started and sucked.  

 

 

Newer players are slower for two reasons.  They take way more strokes, and they just don't have the actual feel of how long they are taking.  Both things improve with the frequency of play.  But there are always new people coming into the game, so its always going to be somewhat of an issue.  

I've seen this too often, the player who thinks that his rights trump the newer player just because he's been at it long enough to be fairly proficient.  Must have been wonderful to be a scratch golfer in one's first few rounds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaeljames92 

I think your mate is missing the whole point about slow play. Really only applies when there is someone directly behind you.

No, it doesn't.  Your responsibility is to keep pace with the group in front of you.  If you do that you should never have to look back for anyone behind you. If you know that you are off pace, then you should be trying to catch up, not just staying ahead of the group behind you.

Pace is the policy set by the course.  For most courses that is quite a bit slower that what is actually required by players who understand ready golf, but it is what they have found to be reasonable on a busy day.  I don't care what it was "expected" to be 30 years ago, or what it is at your home course.  This is today, and I don't play your course.  Most courses have their pace of play posted somewhere, or have it printed on the scorecard.  If that policy isn't to your liking, then that is your problem, not the course's, nor is it the problem of the group ahead of you if they are on pace.  You have a right to complain if the group in front of you is off pace and there is a gap ahead of them.  If they are keeping up, and the group in front of them is keeping up, etcetera, but the course is still off pace, then you just need to learn to deal with adversity.  Also in this case, I don't care if you are a single, you have no right to play through one group after another on a busy course.   Deal with it, or find some friends, or join up with strangers, or go home and play another day (with no guarantees that it will be any different).

I'm a fast player, and I dislike slow play as much as anyone, but I've also learned to live with the reality that not everyone plays like I do.  As long as the course is playing near the pace set by the course policy, then I don't worry about, and I certainly don't push against those in front of me.  That is simply rude.  My signature sums up my feelings on pace of play.

Just a thought: In trying to be receptive to new/casual golfers and still advance the cause of ready golf, I think all courses should have signs on the 1st and 10th  tees listing the Ten Comandments of Ready Golf instead of simply stating the required pace of play or those "you should be here in x:xx" signs. This would serve as a tutorial for newbs and a reminder for experienced players.

As some here have pointed out, a good percentage of slow play comes from new/casual golfers who simply don't know or can't apply the common sense rules of ready golf as presented by beisenhauer's exemplary post.

Hackers already have their heads filled with all manner of other stuff regarding etiquette and technique, and applying added pressure of having to play fast can derail their already unsteady psyche. I know because it has taken my wife 2 yrs to start adopting the precepts of ready golf, and that was with steady and gentle coaching from me. In the past sometimes if I applied too much pressure she would unleash on me and her game would totally fall apart.

Listen i know slow play can ruin a round, or make it more torturous, especially if your playing bad. But lets say someone is allowed to play through, unless that group is ahead of the one behind them, then it doesn't really speed up the whole course. Its basically the theory behind an assembly line, your only as fast as your slowest component. So unless that group lets everyone behind them play through, which on a busy golf course would mean they probably would never finish, someone is going to be held up. 

Really the key to speeding up play, set a limit to the max score you can take on a hole. Lets say, 3 over par max. Also ready golf is important but don't assume ready golf means your getting into your preshot routine right as other people are getting done. There is a lot of variable on that. I've played with slow players, and fast players, so the time for ready golf varies. I would say, get as much done as possible while others are hitting. For me, i can usually get my yardage, and pick the club i want by the time other's are done. As for putting, i will take as long as i want and read the putt as many times as i want. If i want to walk a 360 degree circle, reading from every angle for a 3 foot putt, i will. Putting is the shot that requires the most accuracy and feel, i will take my time. If you have a problem, deal with it. But honestly, by the time i mark my ball, fix the ball mark, wash the ball, and get ready to read a putt. I can read a putt in under a minute, walking around the ball. 

Look at it this way, you have a 500 yard part 5, your walk 4.5 feet per second, which is an average walking pace. Your looking at covering that 500 yards, walking 6 minutes. Your wanting what, 18 minutes to play a par 5. That leave's 12 minutes for each shot taken. Lets say its bogey golf, that's 6x4 = 24 total shots taken by a foursome, that's 30 seconds per shot left. So really, if you want to keep correct pacing, and your not at your ball while other's at there's you better do everything in 30 seconds.  

Golf ceases to be a pleasurable experience when you have to stand around and watch every shot of the group in front of you before you can hit your shot. It's not hard. Just keep pace with the group in front of you and be ready to play when it is your turn. And realize at some point during a hole that you should pickup if you are screwing up that particular hole.

We have a rule at our place that you should play in 4:15 (I think it should be 4:00, but whatever). If you are longer than that, you will be notified of it (but not if you finish within 15 minutes of the group in front of you). If you receive a second notification it is a formal warning and a third will get you suspended that week on Men's Day and before 10:00 AM on the weekend. A fourth will get you suspended for a week and you can't play before 10:00 on the weekend for a month. In all the years I've been on the golf committee we have sent a third notification to maybe three players. When you get a letter in the mail informing you that you are a slow player it tends to get you motivated to keep your group moving. We generally don't marshall the course, but we have reminders at particular locations that tell you where you should be timewise.

No you are wrong. I play at a great pace or "ready golf" as you might call it. I spend most of every hole waiting. I'm talking about the kind of guy who will pitch or chip up to the green and not wait for another to execute his shot. The guy putts and hits in a rushed manner looking to "rattle" an opponent who observes standard golf etiquette. This is also the type of guy who will move around behind the hole as you putt.

It depends on what you mean by slow play. 3.1/2-4 1/2 hours is a good pace and I don't like to rush either. It's really annoying when your partner(s) take too much time lining up each 2 foot put, waiting for them to go through the 5 minute pre shot routine AFTER you have already hit your shot or the foursome in front of you stand around on the green and have a social event after puting out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter22031 

It depends on what you mean by slow play. 3.1/2-4 1/2 hours is a good pace and I don't like to rush either. It's really annoying when your partner(s) take too much time lining up each 2 foot put, waiting for them to go through the 5 minute pre shot routine AFTER you have already hit your shot or the foursome in front of you stand around on the green and have a social event after puting out.

I agree. Those are annoying. The point I'm making is that some guys feel they can overpower something by rushing and disregarding other players. Played this morning with one of them in the group. on a 165 yd. par 3 I was three feet short in the rough. He was about fifteen yards short. He hit his shot, then walked directly in front of me towards the flag and his ball as I was lining up my chip. There were caddies in the group so he didn't need to mark his ball, by the way and it wasn't in ayone;s line. I hit my shot anyway, missing him by a foot as he walked towards the hole. My putt was a gimme. I stayed on the green while the others putted out. Then he rushed to the next tee and hit first. Maybe he thinks he's a real man for those kinds of antics, I don't know.

Maybe it is just the people you play with.  I regularly play in under 4 hrs., usually under 3-1/2, and no on in the groups I play in does any of these things.  And if they did I wouldn't play with them.

I played today with a buddy of mine who is a better golfer than I am.  Since we were just 2, we got paired up with another twosome.  Between my buddy and I . . .I am bad and fast, he is good (well, better than me) but slow.  The other twosome was exactly the same - with one good but slow player and 1 bad but fast player. 

Ok - it was brutal.  By the 8th hole we were backing up the entire course.  Our 2 "good golfers" acted as if they were totally unaware of this - taking thier full time to line up every putt, etc.  I almost died as the other good player, not my buddy, took a full 10 minutes to hit one shot.  He walked up the fairway . .and back to his ball . .and back up the fairway . .before ever even pulling a club.  He actually did hit a good shot that time - but neither of these guys were pros so they occassionally would spend a long time preparing for a shot only to duff it and start over. 

Most of this I attributed to just not playing ready golf.  My buddy was never ready when it was his turn.  When it came his turn, that;s when he started to think about what club to use and what type of shot to hit.  He never left the cart with more than 1 club.  Never brought his putter, for example, with him to make a short chip.  He stood on the green counting his strokes in his head while the group behind us just stood there -glaring - waiting to take thier shots.

In this case it went totally the other way.  It wasn't fast players gaming slow players . . it was slow players gaming me.  Since I was always last to tee off (never got honors) - I was always super rushed.  Since everybody before me had taken thier sweet time - I felt compelled to rush through my tee shots since the group behind was giving us evil-eyes the whole time.  I can honestly say that I shot 5-10 strokes worse today just because I was rushing for the sake of everybody else. 

I brought up the idea of picking up the pace or letting groups go through but got the typical (from my buddy, at least) response . . .if we let them go through, we'll have to let everybody go through . .followed by 'everybody expects to wait - it's part of the game"  type comments. 

Well . .it totally sucked for me.  I can't feel comfortable knowing I'm causing the groups behind anguish.  Everybody should just play fast . .dammit.  These comments like "What's the rush"? are dangerous and make people think it's valid to play slower when it's totally not.  Play faster dammit!

But if your two buddies played faster and the people behind you were playing at the "play as fast as you possibly can" pace, then it's likely they still would be pushing you and you'd still have a bad round.

People aren't arguing to play slow.  They're saying play at a steady pace.  I'm extremely uncomfortable if someone is pushing me, yet I'm not a slow player.  Play at a reasonable pace and give me a chance to make another practice swing on my chip so I can get comfortable and not botch it.  Quit trying to keep a sub-3 hour pace if the course is busy.  It's fine for days when the course is wide open, but don't expect it when it's busy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadesworld 

 

 

But if your two buddies played faster and the people behind you were playing at the "play as fast as you possibly can" pace, then it's likely they still would be pushing you and you'd still have a bad round.

 

People aren't arguing to play slow.  They're saying play at a steady pace.  I'm extremely uncomfortable if someone is pushing me, yet I'm not a slow player.  Play at a reasonable pace and give me a chance to make another practice swing on my chip so I can get comfortable and not botch it.  Quit trying to keep a sub-3 hour pace if the course is busy.  It's fine for days when the course is wide open, but don't expect it when it's busy.

It was wide open ahead, stacked up behind.  We finished in just over 4.5 hours - not ridiculous but definitely too slow. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by neucruegolf 

Many players don't know how to play because no one taught them or they were never taught etiquette. Courses should make first time course goers go through a class on ready golf and fixing ball marks and raking the traps and losing balls and etc, etc basics every golfer should know.

I kept reading the sign in our carts that said, in large type, "Pick up the Pace!".  It was a general reminder about pace of play and even included recommended "time limits" per hole.  But the course doesn't enforce it. 

There is a course near me called The Republic - too spendy for me but I like what it says on thier website.  I don't know if they really enforce it or not but it would make the hefty greens fee more appealing if so.

http://www.republicgolfclub.com/golf/pace-of-play

At Foresight Golf, we believe your time is valuable. We truly appreciate you spending it with us and we want to do our part in keeping your round enjoyable by addressing slow play. In an effort to keep rounds under 4 ½ hours, we have adopted a new pace of play flag system. When you see the marshal on your golf hole, his cart will be flying a colored flag. We have timed all of the groups on the course and these flags mean:

Green: Your group is playing at an acceptable pace of play. Enjoy your game and thank you for keeping up with the pace!

Yellow: Your group has fallen behind the pace and is causing everyone behind you to play slow. Please pick up the pace.

Red: Even though you’re aware that your group has been playing slow, you’ve been unable to catch-up. The marshal will give you specific instructions as to how to get back into position. You must follow the marshal’s instructions.

We truly appreciate your business and thank you for your cooperation in making all of our customers’ experience as enjoyable as possible!

I walk courses and find 4hrs is common. People who stress over time are pests unless for example!  a few boys or girls who are plus handicappers are stuck behind novices and its becoming an issue. On busy days like medals,  that's why i believe in times being given out according to handicap and rotating what handicaps go out first. No doubt it is a difficult subject. Not many sports suffer a similar problem. And applying pressure to peoples game out on the course isn't right!. I do not mind waiting, i do mind being ignored if a group refuses to allow our group through after 5 mins of ball hunting for the second or third time. But that's more to do with bad manners and etiquette.

says it all for me!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by the chopper 

I walk courses and find 4hrs is common. People who stress over time are pests unless for example!  a few boys or girls who are plus handicappers are stuck behind novices and its becoming an issue. On busy days like medals,  that's why i believe in times being given out according to handicap and rotating what handicaps go out first. No doubt it is a difficult subject. Not many sports suffer a similar problem. And applying pressure to peoples game out on the course isn't right!. I do not mind waiting, i do mind being ignored if a group refuses to allow our group through after 5 mins of ball hunting for the second or third time. But that's more to do with bad manners and etiquette.

 

You're only here for a short visit. Don't hurry, don't worry. And be sure to smell the flowers along the way.”

Walter Hagen

 

 

says it all for me!!

I would say that anytime there are holes open ahead but a group (or 2 or 3) stacked up behind and waiting on every shot - then you're playing too slow - regardless of what pace you're playing.  If I'm in a group playing at a 4 hour pace but there are 3 groups behind us playing at a 3.5 hour pace, then we are holding everybody up and playing too slow.  We need to either let groups go through or pick up the pace. 

And, honestly, my opinion doesn't change if we're playing a 3 hour pace and the groups behind are playing a 2.5 hour pace - it's just like driving - regardless of the speed limit or the speed a particular car is going - you let faster cars pass if the road is open ahead.  (I do know some idiots who refuse to let other cars pass because "hey, I'm going the speed limit (or slightly over) - but those people don't know how to drive.  In fact, they're probably on thier way to hold up play at the local golf course).

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmazingWhacker 

 

I would say that anytime there are holes open ahead but a group (or 2 or 3) stacked up behind and waiting on every shot - then you're playing too slow - regardless of what pace you're playing.  If I'm in a group playing at a 4 hour pace but there are 3 groups behind us playing at a 3.5 hour pace, then we are holding everybody up and playing too slow.  We need to either let groups go through or pick up the pace. 

 

And, honestly, my opinion doesn't change if we're playing a 3 hour pace and the groups behind are playing a 2.5 hour pace - it's just like driving - regardless of the speed limit or the speed a particular car is going - you let faster cars pass if the road is open ahead.  (I do know some idiots who refuse to let other cars pass because "hey, I'm going the speed limit (or slightly over) - but those people don't know how to drive.  In fact, they're probably on thier way to hold up play at the local golf course).

I'm all for a good pace on a golf course, and I have already chimed in a couple of times about a lot of the intolerable slow play on a golf course. But a 4 hour pace is acceptable and if somebody behind you is playing at a 3.5 pace, that's too bad. Playing through groups all day slows the rest of the golf course down even more. If you are playing golf at a breakneck speed and riding up the butt of the groups in front all day, I hardly think that is a pleasurable experience. If the group in front you is playing at a 4 hour pace and is keeping up with the group in front of them it would be ridiculous for them to let you play through, as there is nowhere for you to go. Other than to play through the next group, then the next group, thne the next group...and then the rest of the golf course slows down even more because every group has to stand around waiting for the Mario Andretti group to play through. That is just stupid.

That said, I beleive that golf courses should set time goals for a round of golf and insist that players meet thos goals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmazingWhacker 

Quote:

Originally Posted by the chopper 

I walk courses and find 4hrs is common. People who stress over time are pests unless for example!  a few boys or girls who are plus handicappers are stuck behind novices and its becoming an issue. On busy days like medals,  that's why i believe in times being given out according to handicap and rotating what handicaps go out first. No doubt it is a difficult subject. Not many sports suffer a similar problem. And applying pressure to peoples game out on the course isn't right!. I do not mind waiting, i do mind being ignored if a group refuses to allow our group through after 5 mins of ball hunting for the second or third time. But that's more to do with bad manners and etiquette.

 

You're only here for a short visit. Don't hurry, don't worry. And be sure to smell the flowers along the way.”

Walter Hagen

 

 

says it all for me!!

 

I would say that anytime there are holes open ahead but a group (or 2 or 3) stacked up behind and waiting on every shot - then you're playing too slow - regardless of what pace you're playing.  If I'm in a group playing at a 4 hour pace but there are 3 groups behind us playing at a 3.5 hour pace, then we are holding everybody up and playing too slow.  We need to either let groups go through or pick up the pace. 

 

And, honestly, my opinion doesn't change if we're playing a 3 hour pace and the groups behind are playing a 2.5 hour pace - it's just like driving - regardless of the speed limit or the speed a particular car is going - you let faster cars pass if the road is open ahead.  (I do know some idiots who refuse to let other cars pass because "hey, I'm going the speed limit (or slightly over) - but those people don't know how to drive.  In fact, they're probably on thier way to hold up play at the local golf course).

I wholeheartedly disagree.  Just because Joe Speedy and the Hot to Trots want to play race golf doesn't make that a requirement for the rest of the field, nor should we have to disrupt our game letting them play through just so they can stack up against the next fourball.  He can play on off times or days, or he can adjust his pace to ours.  Unless I'm being held up in front, I will play fast, and the guys I play with most often will play fast, and we (fourball) will finish in around 4 hours, give or take a few minutes.   As mentioned earlier, if the course sets a pace policy, and I'm well ahead of that pace, then sorry Joe.  IF he's nice, and IF the course is open for 2 or 3 holes in front of me, then I'll consider it.  If there is no more than a hole open ahead, and my group is about to close that gap, then even if there is still another opening 2 groups farther on, he is just going to have to adjust to the rest of us.  I see no reason why 3 or 4 groups have to adjust to his abnormally fast pace. 

Your philosophy applies only to a wide open course with very few players, a condition I almost never see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt 

 

I wholeheartedly disagree.  Just because Joe Speedy and the Hot to Trots want to play race golf doesn't make that a requirement for the rest of the field, nor should we have to disrupt our game letting them play through just so they can stack up against the next fourball.  He can play on off times or days, or he can adjust his pace to ours.  Unless I'm being held up in front, I will play fast, and the guys I play with most often will play fast, and we (fourball) will finish in around 4 hours, give or take a few minutes.   As mentioned earlier, if the course sets a pace policy, and I'm well ahead of that pace, then sorry Joe.  IF he's nice, and IF the course is open for 2 or 3 holes in front of me, then I'll consider it.  If there is no more than a hole open ahead, and my group is about to close that gap, then even if there is still another opening 2 groups farther on, he is just going to have to adjust to the rest of us.  I see no reason why 3 or 4 groups have to adjust to his abnormally fast pace. 

 

Your philosophy applies only to a wide open course with very few players, a condition I almost never see.

Was that you in front of me on the way home this evening?  I guess we can agree to disagree.  :)