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The UFC/MMA/Etc. Thread - Page 13

post #217 of 247
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by clubchamp View Post

I'm still not sure how you are seeing it as wrong? The promoter found a suitable replacement on short notice and the champion said no to the fight. The poor card falls on Dana but Jones not fighting falls on Jones which is what killed 151. The guy that wrote that article fails to realize that there is only so many big ppv draws so it's impossible for Dana to not have 2 or 3 cards a year that rely heavily on the main event. If anyone can give me one legitimate reason why Jones bailed on the fight with Sonnen I might see the point but until then it is Jones who cancelled 151. The other point that Jones defenders never seem to bring up is he is the first champion to ever turn down a fight with a replacement. So if you are Dana you found a replacement and based on history he had no reason to think Jones would say no to the fight. Basically every other time this happened the promoter fixed without a problem the one time the promoter couldn't fix it was because Jon Jones refused to fight.

 

No, Jones not fighting is the justification Dana gave for cancelling the fight. Dana, in any event, was the one that cancelled the fight. Again, the fighter is only responsible for his performance in the fights he agrees to get involved in. Everything else is NOT his responsibility. 

 

Everything else you said might very well be true, but it is besides the point.

post #218 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapanda View Post

 

No, Jones not fighting is the justification Dana gave for cancelling the fight. Dana, in any event, was the one that cancelled the fight. Again, the fighter is only responsible for his performance in the fights he agrees to get involved in. Everything else is NOT his responsibility. 

 

Everything else you said might very well be true, but it is besides the point.

So based on your logic it would have been worse for Jones to show up to the Hendo fight and get KO'd in 10 seconds because his performance in the fight was poor? I guess I don't see how you don't feel the fighters responsibility is to fight rather than just his performance in a fight. I'd much rather a fighter show up and KO'd than not show up at all but it looks like we will have to just agree to disagree.

post #219 of 247
Thread Starter 

You're confusing two things: whether I think Jones made the right call or not and whether I think that Jones is ultimately (or even primarily) responsible for the cancellation of the event.

 

The former was no, now that I've read a bit more about it, it becameI don't know - though again, not relevant. And the latter is a solid no. But the two are not the same thing.

post #220 of 247

UFC sucks bunch of grown men hugging each other

post #221 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey23lj View Post

UFC sucks bunch of grown men hugging each other

 

Way to contribute to the conversation 

post #222 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by clubchamp View Post

Way to contribute to the conversation 

 

25 posts and he's yet to contribute anything.

post #223 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapanda View Post

 

No, Jones not fighting is the justification Dana gave for cancelling the fight. Dana, in any event, was the one that cancelled the fight. Again, the fighter is only responsible for his performance in the fights he agrees to get involved in. Everything else is NOT his responsibility. 

 

Everything else you said might very well be true, but it is besides the point.

 

 

Here is my opinion on the whole situation.  Jones is a champ and along with that comes certain responsibilities.  I'm sure at some point in his career, Jones got to step up on shot notice for a fight that his opponent took with no issues.  That's part of the game.  I'll list my points to make this shorter;

 

1) Hendo and Sonnen are basically the exact same style fighter.  Both wrestlers but Hendo has KO power where Sonnen does not.

2) Sonnen had not been in the gym 1 day since the Anderson fight

3) Jones had a full training camp and was in shape to fight

4) Sonnen offered up his entire fight purse for Jones to show up

5) Jones had said the week before the Hendo's announcement, that he would fight Sonnen any time and any where.....obviously a lie

 

 

I mean I can go on but it gets nit picky. Jones should have taken the fight.  He pissed off most fans, Dana, the UFC period, all of the fighters on the card, and lost a lot of respect from other fighters that weren't on the card.

 

Jones was afraid of Sonnen plain and simple.  I mean, the guy is the LHW champ in the UFC and calls Dana and asks him to make Sonnen stop calling him out. Not to mention the fact that Dana and the UFC built Jones into what he is.  The Nike sponsorship, the UFC sponsorship, and helping him out on the DUI situation....and then you tell them NO causing them to cancel an event??  No, Jones shot himself in the foot.   And now Jones is pulling the race card.  Oh man...Jones needs to get off twitter and stop doing interviews and let this die down.  Otherwise, he is going to make this a PR disaster that he will never recover from.

 

I don't know that I've ever seen a fighter fall this quickly. 

post #224 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by TN94z View Post

 

 

Here is my opinion on the whole situation.  Jones is a champ and along with that comes certain responsibilities.  I'm sure at some point in his career, Jones got to step up on shot notice for a fight that his opponent took with no issues.  That's part of the game.  I'll list my points to make this shorter;

 

1) Hendo and Sonnen are basically the exact same style fighter.  Both wrestlers but Hendo has KO power where Sonnen does not.

2) Sonnen had not been in the gym 1 day since the Anderson fight

3) Jones had a full training camp and was in shape to fight

4) Sonnen offered up his entire fight purse for Jones to show up

5) Jones had said the week before the Hendo's announcement, that he would fight Sonnen any time and any where.....obviously a lie

 

 

I mean I can go on but it gets nit picky. Jones should have taken the fight.  He pissed off most fans, Dana, the UFC period, all of the fighters on the card, and lost a lot of respect from other fighters that weren't on the card.

 

Jones was afraid of Sonnen plain and simple.  I mean, the guy is the LHW champ in the UFC and calls Dana and asks him to make Sonnen stop calling him out. Not to mention the fact that Dana and the UFC built Jones into what he is.  The Nike sponsorship, the UFC sponsorship, and helping him out on the DUI situation....and then you tell them NO causing them to cancel an event??  No, Jones shot himself in the foot.   And now Jones is pulling the race card.  Oh man...Jones needs to get off twitter and stop doing interviews and let this die down.  Otherwise, he is going to make this a PR disaster that he will never recover from.

 

I don't know that I've ever seen a fighter fall this quickly. 

Lol, "basically" and "but". I'm just nit-picking for fun, they are far from the same. Chael can barely strike, and Hendo can bomb. Both good wrestlers but the stand up between the two is drastically different.  I can't imagine training the same for both of them. Being ready for Hendo would most likely make you ready for Chael. Being ready for Chael on the other hand, does not make you ready for Hendo, in my opinion. I'm not saying Chael is the easier fight necessarily, but its different then a Hendo fight. Chael is very aggressive lately and Hendo is old. Not sure who I would want to fight, but flashbacks of Henderson vs Bisping keep popping into my head ROFL. I would for sure fight Chael over Henderson if my health was of interest. I don't mind being ground down and losing a decision, but possibly waking up and asking what happened, while having a hairline fracture in my orbital bone is a different story lol. 

 

They are kind of the same, I get it lol, Im just messin.

post #225 of 247
Hendo has ko power not good striking...totally different things. Chael with his background in boxing would be the better striker. Who knocked Anderson down with striking...Hendo or Sonnen? With Hendo you have to worry about his right hand....that's it. Sonnen uses his striking to get you down and has great top control.

But my point being.....and your response even confirms it....Jones should have been ready to fight an untrained, no gym time, needing a drastic weight cut Sonnen if he already had a full training camp for Hendo.. This situation wasn't the other way around. I agree that being ready for Sonnen and having to fight Hendo last minute is different and would have produced a different response from me. I personally think Hendo is more dangerous just because there is a greater chance of a KO. From a lasting decision type fight, Sonnen is more dangerous but Jones' fights generally don't go to decision.

The biggest differences I see are sonnen's size which is not a big issue for Jones. And the fact that Sonnen is a southpaw.
post #226 of 247

Yes, Jones was ready for Sonnen, no reason at all he shouldn't have fought him. I see Jones beating both of them in the same night very easily. He just got bad guidance from Greg Jackson.

 

The problem with Chaels striking is... it rarely finishes fights, standing up or ground and pound. Yeah maybe he can get a TKO against a lesser opponent, but high class fighters wont wilt to his feather soft touch lol. Maybe he grinds out a decision, but TKO's and even submissions have been scarce of late. His late round ground and pound is useless for ending a fight, and barley scores. Henderson on the other hand is always dangerous, even landing hard blows from the guard. Even though it's mostly one hand, everything he throws hurts. KO's and TKO's happen often.

 

Chaels boxing background, doesn't make him an efficient striker in MMA. It lacks to much power. Knocking down Silva didn't win him the fight. Either did his countless amount of strikes on the ground. Even though Henderson throws mostly the H-Bomb. I think that one punch is more relevant then all of Chaels striking arsenal. There is no way I could call Chael a better striker then Henderson on any day. Dan has more then just the H-Bomb also. c2_beer.gif

post #227 of 247
It depends on where you put your weight in the decision. I think technique for to Chael. Obviously power goes to Henderson. Strikes in the arsenal also goes to Sonnen. Hendo just relies too much on that one punch.

Regardless, it don't matter now. Neither got the shot. With all of that being said, I am a much bigger fan of Henderson. He's the man!

And I don't like Greg Jackson either. I understand you want what's best for your fighters but his fighter don't seem to fight to win anymore....
post #228 of 247

UFC just had their lowest gate in recent history so Dana couldn't afford another poorly attended / low PPV buy event.  Jones was the headliner, and without him fighting the rest of the card lacked gate drawing power.  Hardcore fans might watch it, but the average MMA fan isn't coughing up $55 to watch 2nd tier fighters. 

 

JBJ had the right to deny the fight and in his mind he did what was right for himself, not the UFC, that won't be forgotten by Dana.  Dana tried to get him other opponents but Sonnen was the only guy that accepted the fight given the short notice.  I also agree with his analysis that Sonnen is a different fighter than Hendo.  Sonnen is a south paw, he depends more on take downs and ground and pound.  Hendo is right handed, prefers to strike and dirty box despite an excellent wrestling background.

 

Fighting Sonnen provided no upside to JBJ, if JBJ won, it would be written off since Sonnen lost his last two fights against a lighter but similar fighter in Silva and had almost no camp to prepare for Jone. 

 

I don't like JBJ but I understand his reasoning for refusing the fight.  Dana has to realize that this is a business now, these fighters aren't the meatheads that were around for UFC 1-50, these guys are business men / professional athletes that fight to win endorsement deals and bank a lot of money.  Their are some old throwbacks that fight to fight, but JBJ, GSP, Silva, and JDS are there to make money first, not fight. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapanda View Post

 

No, Jones not fighting is the justification Dana gave for cancelling the fight. Dana, in any event, was the one that cancelled the fight. Again, the fighter is only responsible for his performance in the fights he agrees to get involved in. Everything else is NOT his responsibility. 

 

Everything else you said might very well be true, but it is besides the point.

post #229 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
Their are some old throwbacks that fight to fight, but JBJ, GSP, Silva, and JDS are there to make money first, not fight. 

 

 

When has JDS not fought?  Or who did he turn down? When has Anderson not fought or turned down a fight?  As I recall, Anderson offered to step up to save UFC151.  GSP hasn't turned down a fight.  I'm just curious.  Or are you just stating that money is the main factor?  Because I can see GSP, Silva, and JDS not turning down a fight in the position JBJ was in.

 

The UFC made JBJ and they can tear down JBJ.  Once the UFC backs a fighter, they can make him a star.  If they decide they don't like you, they can pull that rug right out from under you as well.  While JBJ did have every right in the world to turn down the fight (one of those being good for his career), getting on the wrong side of the UFC is bad for your career. JBJ has the belt now, but if he loses and is still in bad graces with the UFC, he will fall from stardom quickly.  The kid is a PR night mare now.  Much like Rampage.  He has been caught drinking and driving multiple times, lost his license because of this, and even had women in the car the last time while his fiance was at home. Now he turns down the fight with Sonnen after saying that he would fight him any time and any where.  There are "rumors" that he asked Dana to make Chael stop. The incident where he choked out Machida and just dropped him on his face and then had to be told by Greg Jackson to go check on him.  The guy throws himself under the bus with his twitter rants and media interviews. Rashad Evans has been saying for a long time that Jones is not the person he pretends to be for the media.  Now this seems to be turning into reality.

 

So in my opinion, while he had the right to not fight, I think it will be the turning point in his young career and he will eventually look back on this and wish he had went the other way. I don't like Jones at all because I think he is fake and always have.  It just seems like he is "trying" to be someone he is not.

 

 

Now with all of that being said, the UFC should be blamed for the cancellation as well.  Anderson stepped up and offered to fight and that would have been a good main event no matter who he fought at LHW.  But the problem is the UFC tried to put on so many events, that they don't have enough main event caliber fights to fill all of the PPVs.  Had they had a good card, this show wouldn't have been cancelled. They need to go back to where they don't have as many events....In my opinion

post #230 of 247

Here we go:

 

 

Quote:
If UFC welterweight champion Georges St-Pierre (22-2 MMA, 16-2 UFC) returns from a 19-month injury layoff and can defeat interim titleholder Carlos Condit (28-5 MMA, 5-1 UFC) during an expected UFC 154 clash in November, one of the biggest fights in UFC history could be up next.

As expected, UFC President Dana White said it'll be against middleweight champion Anderson Silva (32-4 MMA, 15-0 UFC).

It's close enough to reality that White has a weight (180 pounds) and venue (105,000-seat Cowboys Stadium) in mind for the super fight.

"I think we're pretty close," White said Tuesday on FUEL TV's "UFC Tonight." "If Georges St-Pierre beats Condit, that could be the next fight.

"These guys want to fight each other now. If you're a fighter and you've dominated as long as Anderson has, and you've been great as long as Georges has, you finally want to say, 'I want to test myself. I think I can beat this guy.'"

The cross-division super fight was once the biggest fight imaginable. Light-heavyweight champion Jon Jones' quick rise has complicated matters, though few of the involved parties currently seem interested in a Silva vs. Jones fight.

Still, St-Pierre vs. Silva has epic possibilities. While St-Pierre previously said such a fight would require him to move up to the middleweight division permanently – and though Silva has hinted at the possibility of moving down to welterweight – White believes they'd meet on middle ground.

"They'll probably do the fight at 180 (pounds)," he said. "At one point, it sounded like Anderson wanted to go to 170. He wanted to take Georges' welterweight title. Then it was 180, the catch weight, because Georges doesn't want to go to '85. Georges said, 'If I have to make a move to go to '85, I'd have to stay at '85.' So we figured a 180-pound catch weight makes sense.

"If that fight happens, it will probably happen at Dallas' Texas Stadium."
post #231 of 247

 He hasn't turned down a fight but my point is the guys I mentioned are athletes who are very focused on the business side of the sport.  Guys like Arlovski, Couture, old BJ Penn, Lindell, even Rich Franklin just want to fight, would fight anyone at any time. 

 

The newer guys are more motivated by money, not that's anything is wrong with it, I was just pointing out it's a change in attitude Dana will have to deal with going forward. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TN94z View Post

 

 

When has JDS not fought?  Or who did he turn down? When has Anderson not fought or turned down a fight?  As I recall, Anderson offered to step up to save UFC151.  GSP hasn't turned down a fight.  I'm just curious.  Or are you just stating that money is the main factor?  Because I can see GSP, Silva, and JDS not turning down a fight in the position JBJ was in.

post #232 of 247
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

 He hasn't turned down a fight but my point is the guys I mentioned are athletes who are very focused on the business side of the sport.  Guys like Arlovski, Couture, old BJ Penn, Lindell, even Rich Franklin just want to fight, would fight anyone at any time. 

 

The newer guys are more motivated by money, not that's anything is wrong with it, I was just pointing out it's a change in attitude Dana will have to deal with going forward. 

 

Agreed. Although, in my opinion, Anderson, GSP, or JDS  would not have made the same choice Jones did.  They would have fought.  Of course I don't "KNOW" this, but that's my opinion.

post #233 of 247

This quite the violent video.... 3 hours long... I doubt Youtube lets this one stand for very long since it's a ripped DVD. Pretty insane stuff. I'm not the biggest MMA guy out there, but I can certainly appreciate a KO.

 

 

I'm just glad that I don't punch people for a living. Or rather, get punched for a living. Yikes. Some of these hurt to watch. 

 

This is one insane video. 

post #234 of 247

Fight last night was pretty crazy, The Korean Zombie dislocated his shoulder throwing a punch at Jose Aldo and tried to pop it back in while still fighting.  Once Aldo figured out what happened he went in for the kill and the fight was stopped.  Dislocating your shoulder is no joke, can't imagine not dropping in pain, no less standing and fighting for two more minutes with it popped out.   

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