Originally Posted by mdl
Originally Posted by mdl
Obviously not! But I maintain it does contribute to slow rounds.
I don't have any experimental data or anything, so I'm not going to claim I have proof it speeds overall pace of play. But I'm pretty sure it does. Think about it this way. If every group on every par 3 waves up the following group after everyone's on the green, then you have at least two groups actively playing on every hole. If everyone putts out on the par 3s, that means there's 4 holes on the course where only one group is playing at a time. That's going to add at least 20-30 minutes to your round.
Even if you don't believe that argument, as was replied to you above, it evens out the waiting times if the group in front waves up the following group.
Originally Posted by sacm3bill
If having more groups actively playing each hole helped anything, then it would help to wave groups up on the par 4s and par 5s as well, as Sean suggests. The reason that *doesn't* help is because the duration of the round is always going to be as long as it takes to get to the 18th green and putt out, and the only thing that depends on (assuming you're waiting on groups ahead of you, as is the assumption for the sake of this argument), is the speed of the slowest group in front of you.
The par 4s and 5s argument is bogus. The reason you don't wave up the following group on par 4s and 5s is because the group behind you is still hitting and walking to their balls and setting up their approach shots for most of the time your group is on the green (unless your group is ungodly slow or the following group is super fast).
You're saying you've never had to wait for a green to clear before hitting your approach shots to a par 4 or par 5?
Even if that's been your experience, it is certainly not the norm. If groups are stacked up to the point where you're waiting for the green to clear on the tee box of par 3s, then you're also going to be waiting for the green to clear when hitting your approach shots on par 4s and 5s. And you're going to be waiting longer on those approach shots if the group in front of you has been previously delayed when putting out on the par 3s because they had to wait for your group to hit when they wave you up.
Add up the minutes. We all know that the time it takes for a group to go from first putt in the group to clearing the green (call it X minutes) is definitely longer than the time it takes a well-prepared group to take four tee shots (call it Y minutes). So if every group is waving up, you get to wait X minutes less before starting the hole, with the only cost being you have to wait Y minutes between when your whole group is on the green and when you get to start taking putts. So as long as X > Y, you're saving 4 * (X - Y) minutes on the round by having every group wave up the following group on each par 3. Figure 4-5 minutes on the green per group, and 1.5-2 minutes for a well prepared group to all tee off, and you're saving 10-15 minutes a round at least.
You may be saving (X - Y) minutes for that hole, but you lose that same Y amount of minutes on the next hole, because that amount of time it took for your group to tee off is also the amount of time you've delayed the group in front of you, because they can't be putting while they're waiting for your group to tee off. So you're increasing the round by those Y minutes because no matter what, you can't finish the round before the group in front of you does, and you are delaying *their* round by making them wait for you to tee off on every par 3. So, using your example numbers, your group saves 2.5 to 3 minutes (X - Y) in playing that par 3, but also loses 1.5 to 2 minutes (Y) the next time you're waiting for the fairway or green to clear. So even if your logic were sound, you're really only saving 1 minute per par 3.
But you're really *not* even saving that 1 minute, because you're logic is *not* sound: Like I said already, You can't finish any earlier than the group in front of you. Having the group in front of you wave you up on par 3s does nothing to speed up their play. It actually slows them down.