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Post different course etiquettes please! - Page 8

post #127 of 156

I haven't noticed anyone add this yet...

 

Get to the course a little early?

 

I can't tell you how many times I'm waiting in the proshop to check in but I've been there nearly an hour or so putting or chipping, and there's a line 12 deep of guys trying to pay and get out for their 10am tee time and it's 9:57...  Is your schedule so cramped you had to show up AT your tee time to play?

post #128 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post

 

Obviously not!  But I maintain it does contribute to slow rounds.

 

I don't have any experimental data or anything, so I'm not going to claim I have proof it speeds overall pace of play.  But I'm pretty sure it does.  Think about it this way.  If every group on every par 3 waves up the following group after everyone's on the green, then you have at least two groups actively playing on every hole.  If everyone putts out on the par 3s, that means there's 4 holes on the course where only one group is playing at a time.  That's going to add at least 20-30 minutes to your round.

 

Even if you don't believe that argument, as was replied to you above, it evens out the waiting times if the group in front waves up the following group.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

 

If having more groups actively playing each hole helped anything, then it would help to wave groups up on the par 4s and par 5s as well, as Sean suggests. The reason that *doesn't* help is because the duration of the round is always going to be as long as it takes to get to the 18th green and putt out, and the only thing that depends on (assuming you're waiting on groups ahead of you, as is the assumption for the sake of this argument), is the speed of the slowest group in front of you.

 

The par 4s and 5s argument is bogus.  The reason you don't wave up the following group on par 4s and 5s is because the group behind you is still hitting and walking to their balls and setting up their approach shots for most of the time your group is on the green (unless your group is ungodly slow or the following group is super fast).

 

You're saying you've never had to wait for a green to clear before hitting your approach shots to a par 4 or par 5?

 

Even if that's been your experience, it is certainly not the norm. If groups are stacked up to the point where you're waiting for the green to clear on the tee box of par 3s, then you're also going to be waiting for the green to clear when hitting your approach shots on par 4s and 5s.  And you're going to be waiting longer on those approach shots if the group in front of you has been previously delayed when putting out on the par 3s because they had to wait for your group to hit when they wave you up.

 

Quote:
Add up the minutes.  We all know that the time it takes for a group to go from first putt in the group to clearing the green (call it X minutes) is definitely longer than the time it takes a well-prepared group to take four tee shots (call it Y minutes).  So if every group is waving up, you get to wait X minutes less before starting the hole, with the only cost being you have to wait Y minutes between when your whole group is on the green and when you get to start taking putts.  So as long as X > Y, you're saving 4 * (X - Y) minutes on the round by having every group wave up the following group on each par 3.  Figure 4-5 minutes on the green per group, and 1.5-2 minutes for a well prepared group to all tee off, and you're saving 10-15 minutes a round at least.

 

You may be saving (X - Y) minutes for that hole, but you lose that same Y amount of minutes on the next hole, because that amount of time it took for your group to tee off is also the amount of time you've delayed the group in front of you, because they can't be putting while they're waiting for your group to tee off.  So you're increasing the round by those Y minutes because no matter what, you can't finish the round before the group in front of you does, and you are delaying *their* round by making them wait for you to tee off on every par 3. So, using your example numbers, your group saves 2.5 to 3 minutes (X - Y) in playing that par 3, but also loses 1.5 to 2 minutes (Y) the next time you're waiting for the fairway or green to clear. So even if your logic were sound, you're really only saving 1 minute per par 3.

 

But you're really *not* even saving that 1 minute, because you're logic is *not* sound: Like I said already, You can't finish any earlier than the group in front of you. Having the group in front of you wave you up on par 3s does nothing to speed up their play. It actually slows them down.

post #129 of 156

I'm going to borrow FourPutts signature line here:

 

"Your proper place on the course is directly behind the group in front of you, not directly ahead of the group behind you."

 

As long as you are playing as fast as the group infront of you, you are going to complete your round as absolutely soon as you possibly can. And as Sacm3Bill said, you can't finish before them

post #130 of 156

So true.  As a beginner I tend to get stressed if I feel like the people behind us are breathing down my neck, but then I have to remind myself that the people I need to be watching to maintain good pace of play are the group directly in front.  

post #131 of 156

In my experience waving up on par 3's seems to clear out the tee box ahead of you whether that is true or not IDK but i do know the nice thing about waving people up is that you dont have to sit there as long and hopefully you dont get cold either.

post #132 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimdangles View Post

In my experience waving up on par 3's seems to clear out the tee box ahead of you whether that is true or not IDK but i do know the nice thing about waving people up is that you dont have to sit there as long and hopefully you dont get cold either.

You'll "get cold" soon enough on the next tee box.

post #133 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

You'll "get cold" soon enough on the next tee box.

I've read and re-read the 'let 'em hit up on the par 3' posts. I'm sorry, but I don't think it would help pace of play any - not a minute - but I do think it would screw with the rhythm of my round if I had to hit up to every par 3 while people were still on the green. Like the quoted text above says, one way or another, the wait will be the same re: total round time.

All of this is purely hypothetical, anyway. I don't think hitting up on par 3's is going to ever be an accepted, regular practice at any track I play. I hope not, anyway.

There are SO many other ways to speed up play....this has to be at the very bottom of the list.
post #134 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

You'll "get cold" soon enough on the next tee box.

When you are waved up or waving up it is taking you twice as long to play that hole so it makes the waiting less overall. Once the other group has putted out they go to the next tee box. You then finish getting on the green or marking your putts then you wait and wave up the next group. this takes another minute or 2 that you take reading your putt and getting ready. Then everybody putts out. During all this time the next tee box has had an extra couple minutes to clear the next tee box. Last time I was waved up on a par 3 there was a 3 group back up til the first par 3. the next hole afterwards was wide open for us. It cleared up the whole course after that. until the turn when there always seems to be another 3 group back up.

 

Playing in beautiful So Cal has its flaws (very crowded)

 

 

Once again. Im not even a huge fan of waving up but it has its purposes.

post #135 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimdangles View Post

... Last time I was waved up on a par 3 there was a 3 group back up til the first par 3. the next hole afterwards was wide open for us. It cleared up the whole course after that.

 

That's natural though. Par 3s are always where the logjams are, simply because it takes longer for a group to clear a green than it does to clear a fairway. That has nothing to do with being waved up.

 

If someone likes being waved up because it splits the waiting time into 2 shorter periods instead of 1 long one, I get that.  My point is simply that it doesn't do anything to shorten the round.

 

(And just remember that some folks don't like being waved up.)

post #136 of 156

Am I missing something on the waving up deal? What do you do? Mark all of the other groups balls and repair their ball marks so that your group can putt out and finish? Doesn't seem logical to me to have 8 balls on the green.

post #137 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by reedf View Post

Am I missing something on the waving up deal? What do you do? Mark all of the other groups balls and repair their ball marks so that your group can putt out and finish? Doesn't seem logical to me to have 8 balls on the green.

Most of the time I wave a group up they hit poor shots.  I almost feel bad doing it.  I think they'd prefer I didn't wave them up most of the time.

post #138 of 156

Play thr correct tees and let faster groups play thru!!

 

Played as a twosome on Saturday and caught up to a foursome on #11. These guys were playing from the blues and they had absolutely business playing from there. On several holes we stood on the tee box with the foursome only 50 yds in front of us. They never once asked us to play thru and the round ground to a crawl.

post #139 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsknicks1 View Post

Play thr correct tees and let faster groups play thru!!

 

Played as a twosome on Saturday and caught up to a foursome on #11. These guys were playing from the blues and they had absolutely business playing from there. On several holes we stood on the tee box with the foursome only 50 yds in front of us. They never once asked us to play thru and the round ground to a crawl.

 

Sometimes you just gotta ask to play through. Most people will be embarrassed they didn't have the courtesy to offer if you ask them. Just do it in the nicest way possible. "Sir, the two of us are playing quite a bit faster than the four of you, is it possible we could play through?"

post #140 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Voyles View Post

 

Sometimes you just gotta ask to play through. Most people will be embarrassed they didn't have the courtesy to offer if you ask them. Just do it in the nicest way possible. "Sir, the two of us are playing quite a bit faster than the four of you, is it possible we could play through?"

So rifiling a drive into the middle of his back was a bad idea?d2_doh.gif

post #141 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimdangles View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

You'll "get cold" soon enough on the next tee box.

When you are waved up or waving up it is taking you twice as long to play that hole so it makes the waiting less overall. Once the other group has putted out they go to the next tee box. You then finish getting on the green or marking your putts then you wait and wave up the next group. this takes another minute or 2 that you take reading your putt and getting ready. Then everybody putts out. During all this time the next tee box has had an extra couple minutes to clear the next tee box. Last time I was waved up on a par 3 there was a 3 group back up til the first par 3. the next hole afterwards was wide open for us. It cleared up the whole course after that. until the turn when there always seems to be another 3 group back up.

 

Playing in beautiful So Cal has its flaws (very crowded)

 

 

Once again. Im not even a huge fan of waving up but it has its purposes.

 

 

We're gonna have to agree to disagree here. In my experience, it does not save time. It has never saved time. It has been an annoying inconvenience for both groups on every single occasion. Your experiences are somehow different, but without exception we've stepped off the par 3 green and proceded to wait on the next tee box even longer than we would have if we'd just played the par 3 the normal way.

post #142 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

 

 

We're gonna have to agree to disagree here. In my experience, it does not save time. It has never saved time. It has been an annoying inconvenience for both groups on every single occasion. Your experiences are somehow different, but without exception we've stepped off the par 3 green and proceded to wait on the next tee box even longer than we would have if we'd just played the par 3 the normal way.

 

i've played both ways (freudian slip?), and found really no difference in speed w/ waving up vs. not waving up.  waving up is a pain in the a** -- sometimes the group on the tee doesn't notice so you have to keep waving till they do, or you're on the tee staring at the group on the green and they decide to be the one group that doesn't wave people up so you're standing there getting annoyed.   i'd rather no one ever waves up and just plays on.. backups on par 3's are common, and usually leads to more open holes after.  i also play in so cal so my experience is valid...

post #143 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by sacm3bill View Post

 

That's natural though. Par 3s are always where the logjams are, simply because it takes longer for a group to clear a green than it does to clear a fairway. That has nothing to do with being waved up.

 

If someone likes being waved up because it splits the waiting time into 2 shorter periods instead of 1 long one, I get that.  My point is simply that it doesn't do anything to shorten the round.

 

(And just remember that some folks don't like being waved up.)

 

Wait, the first sentence is exactly my argument.  It generally takes much longer to clear the green than it does to clear the fairway or to finish teeing off.  So if you wave up the group behind you, and they're an average group so only 1 or 2 of the 4 players hit the green off the tee.  Then when you're done you have the time it takes 2 or 3 players to chip on, the group two behind to tee off, and the group one behind to putt.  I've found that in that time you can at least be close to clearing the fairway, and usually have cleared the fairway, by the time the group behind you gets to the next tee box.  So you save all or almost all of the minutes I described above.

post #144 of 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post

Wait, the first sentence is exactly my argument.  It generally takes much longer to clear the green than it does to clear the fairway or to finish teeing off.  So if you wave up the group behind you, and they're an average group so only 1 or 2 of the 4 players hit the green off the tee.  Then when you're done you have the time it takes 2 or 3 players to chip on, the group two behind to tee off, and the group one behind to putt.  I've found that in that time you can at least be close to clearing the fairway, and usually have cleared the fairway, by the time the group behind you gets to the next tee box.  So you save all or almost all of the minutes I described above.

But they will catch up to you and wait in the next fairway while you are putting out (or the one after that) most likely, and consider that because you are 5 min utes behind where you would have been had you not waited for them, then what time are any of you saving?

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