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Kuykendall's LPG swing

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 

Well what can I say, after about 6 weeks of the bent front arm, super fat grip, split hand grip, super wide stance, no weight transfer etc,etc golf swing invented by Jack Kuykendall.........I'm hooked! It took me about 4 weeks to find my original iron distance but from the time I started bending my lead elbow the thing that's struck me about the swing is how bloody straight I am. Even mis hits go straght at the pin. The thing that separates traditional swing from the Lever Power Golf swing is the removal of all the things that can go wrong with a conventional swing. For example hip turns, big shoulder turns, wrist cock ...and release etc etc. In a traditional swing all these things have to be co ordinated ,and if they're not then you're off target and hitting with side spin. LPG seems to reduce the things that can go wrong. I've tried for years to progress at this infuriating game and now I can see that my best way forward might be to rethink not only the way I play the game but also How I play the game. So my first scoring game on a good course last week I shot a 77.....2 birds after a couple of dead straight 8 irons got me close enough to putt in. The rest of the round was good without being great. Anyhow I'm off for a late arvo bash at a REALLY tough course so I'll report back later on my progress........If I don't post then the course would have killed me like it's done before.....I'm optimistic.

post #2 of 36
I would be interested to see a vid of your new swing.
post #3 of 36

Just googled it.  That's a weird looking swing and the few example videos I found were more slo-mo instructional/demonstrations than full speed on the course or range, and looked kind of unathletic.  I really don't like the super stiff wrists, as the wrist has been part of the motion of every athlete who's ever been successful at a high level in every single sport that involves swinging a club, racquet, or bat.  But there's no reason a bent front arm swing can't work.  Hell, baseball players explode from two bent arms to two straight arms, and a few even have a swing plane that's almost as upright as a golf swing plane, and they manage to generate plenty of bat speed and are able to control the bat very well that way.  Tons of wrist action though...

post #4 of 36
Thread Starter 

Well I didn't end up playing in the end. The weather here has been wet and soon after leaving to play it pissed down. MDL, your comment about un athletic is pretty right I reckon. When I first started bending the front elbow it seemed SO wrong, and when the arms both fold to your back shoulder seems to be the most powerless position I've ever hit the ball from but when the whole thing clicks and you work out where the power comes from then suddenly the ball starts going straighter and longer. At my local range there's an old shed at about 240 meters. With my straight arm traditional golf swing I could land my driver on the roof with a good strike. A couple of nights ago I landed one on the roof for the first time using the LPG swing. It was one of those yeeeehhhaaaaa moments. But the main thing I find is the straightness of the shots. I feel now that if I don't do anything totally stupid in the swing it's gunna go straight. very reassuring.

post #5 of 36

I'm a new guy on this site and relatively new to golf as well. I just started this game ten months ago and really love it but at age 64 it's harder to learn some of the athletic moves required for good tee shots. I just came across Kuykendall's site and am intrigued by this new swing. Tried a few hits into a net in my yard and was amazed at the ease of it and the consistency of hitting the ball square. I have been hitting the ball off the tee around 85 mph with a traditional swing and testing it with my 3baysGSA Pro swing analyzer in my yard my swings were averaging 88 mph with elbows only! Will go to the driving range tomorrow to see some actual results and will report back....

post #6 of 36

post #7 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsyuk View Post

THat is about the oddest swing pattern (as far as something being taught, not something self taught like Charles Barkley or whatever) I have ever seen.  But, hey, if it works for you and you enjoy golf because of it, that's all that really matters, right?

post #8 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

THat is about the oddest swing pattern (as far as something being taught, not something self taught like Charles Barkley or whatever) I have ever seen.  But, hey, if it works for you and you enjoy golf because of it, that's all that really matters, right?

Swing at 50% power and baggy sweats. Could golf get any easier?
post #9 of 36

OK, I tried this swing out at the range today and I was really pleased with the results. Normally with the conventional swing I'm lucky to get a good hit off the tee 60% of time and then 70% are fades. Today with this LPG swing I was hitting them straighter and longer more consistently at least 80% of time. Now mind you I've been having a hard time controlling fade shots which were about 70% off the tee. Today my first time out with this swing I may have hit 3 fades, 5 pulls, and the rest dead straight out of a 100 ball basket, plus I was getting 20 extra yards. I need a lot more practice but this is what I've been looking for.....

post #10 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

THat is about the oddest swing pattern (as far as something being taught, not something self taught like Charles Barkley or whatever) I have ever seen.  But, hey, if it works for you and you enjoy golf because of it, that's all that really matters, right?

Yep it is a bit odd. The swing as demonstrated by"dougie" isn't textbook LPG but then Dougie doesn't seem to be a textbook sort of guy. My swing has more bent front arm....maybe 90 degrees. And Doug doesn't seem to drive his rear arm to get get the power that's in the swing. The weird thing about the swing is the way the power seems "hidden". It took me weeks to feel any power at all, then my club distances started to improve back to where they were with the traditional swing. My power now is better than with the trad. swing. 

 

I had a round yesterday and struck the ball the best I have ever hit it. I had 3 drives yesterday where I threw the kitchen sink a the ball. 270 meters, 280 meters downhill and an even bigger one which was down hill down breeze. So there's power there it's just learning where it comes from

post #11 of 36

Speaking as a sports scientist, this swing promotes using the club as a lever - and certainly we can use any stick as a lever if we want to. Other sports, such as ice-hockey and field hockey (for some shots) do this. But here's a simple question: where does the power in a golf swing come from? Ultimately, it's the 'double pendulum' action of the wrist-unhinging (produces 80% of swing power). Splitting the hands and levering the club kills this action - so we kill our main power source.

Watch a lumberjack chopping with a long-handled axe - they split their hands and use a push-pull level action to raise the axe to a height. Then when they want power in the downswing they slide their hands together (like a golf grip) and 'pendulum' the axe at the tree.

Tennis players only have one hand on the racquet so it's impossible to use it as a lever - yet they generate up to 140mph serving speed via their arm-racquet double pendulum action.

You pays your money and you takes your choice....

post #12 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGSZ View Post

Speaking as a sports scientist, this swing promotes using the club as a lever - and certainly we can use any stick as a lever if we want to. Other sports, such as ice-hockey and field hockey (for some shots) do this. But here's a simple question: where does the power in a golf swing come from? Ultimately, it's the 'double pendulum' action of the wrist-unhinging (produces 80% of swing power). Splitting the hands and levering the club kills this action - so we kill our main power source.

Watch a lumberjack chopping with a long-handled axe - they split their hands and use a push-pull level action to raise the axe to a height. Then when they want power in the downswing they slide their hands together (like a golf grip) and 'pendulum' the axe at the tree.

Tennis players only have one hand on the racquet so it's impossible to use it as a lever - yet they generate up to 140mph serving speed via their arm-racquet double pendulum action.

You pays your money and you takes your choice....

Hi Chris, The hinge isn't the wrist in Lever Power Golf. The hinge is the elbow. So the leading wrist is held stiff and the bend comes from the elbow. Kuykendall claims the lever advantage is greater because of the difference in the length of the levers and the separated grip. The feeling of the swing is kind of strange but when you get it right it just works. Just think about this. You know that feeling you get when you start to get lag into a conventional swing and you get that effortless feeling of "whippy" power. Well that's just what LPG gives you without the use of the wrist. The lag angle is the bend in your elbow and the lag is "built in to the swing", very cool!

post #13 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by logman View Post

Hi Chris, The hinge isn't the wrist in Lever Power Golf. The hinge is the elbow. So the leading wrist is held stiff and the bend comes from the elbow. Kuykendall claims the lever advantage is greater because of the difference in the length of the levers and the separated grip. The feeling of the swing is kind of strange but when you get it right it just works. Just think about this. You know that feeling you get when you start to get lag into a conventional swing and you get that effortless feeling of "whippy" power. Well that's just what LPG gives you without the use of the wrist. The lag angle is the bend in your elbow and the lag is "built in to the swing", very cool!


Hi Logman,

Thanks for this info..... I see - so lever 1 is the upper arm (short) and lever 2 is the forearm plus club (very long).

In pure biomechanics terms this makes sense. From a skill-learning perspective though it feels unnatural (I tried it) and most of us want things to 'feel right'. So I guess it's just down to the individual. 

Interestingly, one of the greatest ever golfers - Harry Vardon - played with a bent left elbow.... Maybe he knew something....?

Once again, thanks for the update

post #14 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsyuk View Post


Swing at 50% power and baggy sweats. Could golf get any easier?

Have you tried Jack's E2E swing? Not sure if I can figure that one out without a video, but the LPG is working for me....

post #15 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsyuk View Post

Swing at 50% power and baggy sweats. Could golf get any easier?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by logman View Post

Yep it is a bit odd. The swing as demonstrated by"dougie" isn't textbook LPG but then Dougie doesn't seem to be a textbook sort of guy. My swing has more bent front arm....maybe 90 degrees. And Doug doesn't seem to drive his rear arm to get get the power that's in the swing. The weird thing about the swing is the way the power seems "hidden". It took me weeks to feel any power at all, then my club distances started to improve back to where they were with the traditional swing. My power now is better than with the trad. swing. 

 

I had a round yesterday and struck the ball the best I have ever hit it. I had 3 drives yesterday where I threw the kitchen sink a the ball. 270 meters, 280 meters downhill and an even bigger one which was down hill down breeze. So there's power there it's just learning where it comes from

Yeah, the guy in his garage in sweats and loafers probably isn't the best 'image-wise' for the swing. c2_beer.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGSZ View Post

Speaking as a sports scientist, this swing promotes using the club as a lever - and certainly we can use any stick as a lever if we want to. Other sports, such as ice-hockey and field hockey (for some shots) do this. But here's a simple question: where does the power in a golf swing come from? Ultimately, it's the 'double pendulum' action of the wrist-unhinging (produces 80% of swing power). Splitting the hands and levering the club kills this action - so we kill our main power source.

Watch a lumberjack chopping with a long-handled axe - they split their hands and use a push-pull level action to raise the axe to a height. Then when they want power in the downswing they slide their hands together (like a golf grip) and 'pendulum' the axe at the tree.

Tennis players only have one hand on the racquet so it's impossible to use it as a lever - yet they generate up to 140mph serving speed via their arm-racquet double pendulum action.

You pays your money and you takes your choice....

This is exactly what I was thinking - but admittedly NOT from a sports scientist background.  Just from a physics perspective.  The further down the club your right hand goes, the less lever action you can have.  Certainly most clubhead speed comes from the unhinging of the wrists, does it not?  Therefore, it stands to reason that the shorter the distance from the hand to the end of the club, the slower the speed that club head can be traveling.

 

If you said this swing is all about compromising distance to gain accuracy, I could potentially see that.  But I can't understand how you could gain accuracy and GAIN distance with this swing.

post #16 of 36

"Dougie" should turn off the radio when he's filming an instructional video.

post #17 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

 

Yeah, the guy in his garage in sweats and loafers probably isn't the best 'image-wise' for the swing. c2_beer.gif

This is exactly what I was thinking - but admittedly NOT from a sports scientist background.  Just from a physics perspective.  The further down the club your right hand goes, the less lever action you can have.  Certainly most clubhead speed comes from the unhinging of the wrists, does it not?  Therefore, it stands to reason that the shorter the distance from the hand to the end of the club, the slower the speed that club head can be traveling.

 

If you said this swing is all about compromising distance to gain accuracy, I could potentially see that.  But I can't understand how you could gain accuracy and GAIN distance with this swing.

I'm 64 and a newcomer to golf and have played only ten months now. I was averaging only 170 yards on my drives so decided to try this LPG which I stumbled upon. Today was my second time out at the range and I smacked many over 250 yards and lost sight of the ball and have stopped slicing and had just a few fades. Mostly straight shots with a few draws now and then. No, it may not be for you if you're a decent golfer but I was willing to try anything and so far I'm quite pleased with the results. Works for me!

post #18 of 36
Thread Starter 

You never know, sweats and loafers might be the new golf fashion in 2013. I SOOoooooo want to see Tiger play the British open "Dougie Style"

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