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Brandel Chamblee (Again) Calls for Tiger to Ditch Sean Foley - Page 9

post #145 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis6514 View Post

Do you think that video and technology (e.g. trackman) actually help people to learn or just get people confused? Do you think there are any negatives to getting too much feedback when learning golf? 

No.  I think Trackman opens our minds to learning the game from more of a traditionalist 'feel' to an actual physics and mathematical based form of instruction.  In my mind, this is only going to help the game evolve and progress further.

post #146 of 204

I've been a very vocal and outspoken critic of whether or not I believe Tiger could win a major with this swing theory. I still have some doubts but he has certainly proven he can win regular tour events, and has made vast improvements over this last year or so.  So while I'm still among the doubters, I'm wavering a bit more than I was early this year.

post #147 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachcomber View Post

No.  I think Trackman opens our minds to learning the game from more of a traditionalist 'feel' to an actual physics and mathematical based form of instruction.  In my mind, this is only going to help the game evolve and progress further.

post #148 of 204

After looking at Foley, watching his vids, and then seeing what he does with players, I have no idea about his swing "theories." But there are advantages to teaching with Trackman. I guess that is the key to teaching now - understanding the numbers and how they relate to various aspects of the swing plane - horizontal, vertical, et al. I have no idea other than path and face angle - more to learn.

 

Getting back to Tiger, I watched Tiger's swing over the weekend - his head moves back slightly, his arms are not dialed into his body on the downswing, the cut doesn't always cut - but I guess Tiger has more confidence and is making course corrections.

 

Tiger's driving distance and short game seems to be returning - maybe that's the key. Not getting into too much trouble off the tee and having a great short game.

 

Maybe I (we) expect too much from Tiger.

post #149 of 204

Brandel Chamblee's Career......

 

 

 

Professional wins (2)

PGA Tour wins (1)

No. Date Tournament Winning Score Margin of Victory Runner-up
1 Aug 30, 1998 Greater Vancouver Open -19 (67-64-68-66=275) 3 strokes United States Payne Stewart

Nationwide Tour wins (1)

No. Date Tournament Winning Score Margin of Victory Runner-up
1 Jul 5, 1990 Ben Hogan New England Classic -1 (68-78-69=215) 1 stroke United States Jeff Maggert

Results in major championships

Tournament 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001
The Masters DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP T18 DNP DNP
U.S. Open CUT DNP DNP DNP DNP CUT DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP CUT T46 T61 T44
The Open Championship T66 DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP CUT DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP
PGA Championship DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP CUT CUT CUT DNP DNP DNP DNP

 

 

Nuff said.....

post #150 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith View Post

Brandel Chamblee's Career......

 

 

 

Professional wins (2)

PGA Tour wins (1)

No. Date Tournament Winning Score Margin of Victory Runner-up
1 Aug 30, 1998 Greater Vancouver Open -19 (67-64-68-66=275) 3 strokes United States Payne Stewart

Nationwide Tour wins (1)

No. Date Tournament Winning Score Margin of Victory Runner-up
1 Jul 5, 1990 Ben Hogan New England Classic -1 (68-78-69=215) 1 stroke United States Jeff Maggert

Results in major championships

Tournament 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001
The Masters DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP T18 DNP DNP
U.S. Open CUT DNP DNP DNP DNP CUT DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP CUT T46 T61 T44
The Open Championship T66 DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP CUT DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP
PGA Championship DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP DNP CUT CUT CUT DNP DNP DNP DNP

 

 

Nuff said.....

You don't have to have playing ability to have knowledge, but regardless ... that is a pretty unimpressive Major record.  I count 1 Masters, 2 British Opens, 3 PGA's and 6 US Opens over 15 years.  Yuck.  And of those 12 majors, only 5 made cuts.

 

P.S.  Just to clarify, I am not defending Chamblee or suggesting that he does possess knowledge ... just saying that the lack of a solid playing career does not preclude him from having to ability to possess knowledge.  (His ignorance might, but not his playing ability)  The inverse is also true ... just because you had a stellar playing career, it does not mean you automatically know everything, two obvious cases in point there ... Johnny Miller and Nick Faldo.

post #151 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

You don't have to have playing ability to have knowledge, but regardless ... that is a pretty unimpressive Major record.  I count 1 Masters, 2 British Opens, 3 PGA's and 6 US Opens over 15 years.  Yuck.  And of those 12 majors, only 5 made cuts.

 

P.S.  Just to clarify, I am not defending Chamblee or suggesting that he does possess knowledge ... just saying that the lack of a solid playing career does not preclude him from having to ability to possess knowledge.  (His ignorance might, but not his playing ability)  The inverse is also true ... just because you had a stellar playing career, it does not mean you automatically know everything, two obvious cases in point there ... Johnny Miller and Nick Faldo.

 

I hear what you are saying.  I guess the point I'm trying to make is along the lines of how can someone be so incredible critical of others (specifically Foley and the greatest player to arguably ever live) on how they approach the swing when HIS method of the way to do things resulted in such a basic career? 

 

I'm willing to bet (not that it could happen) if Sean Foley or someone with a similar approach to the swing "coached' Chamblee during his career and brought things to his attention that he is conveniently criticizing now, he would have done better as a professional and maybe won more.

 

These "new" teachers that Chamblee describes (Foley, our friends at 5SK, etc) are only bringing facts to the golf swing that MEAN something.  The information being taught is not "false." The ironic thing is that some of information that the "old school" teaching community taught was "false." 

 

Tiger is a big boy and knows his limitations.  I am sure Tiger pushes back onto Foley on certain things that he may not be comfortable with and in those cases, I am sure Foley would back off.  It's ok to bring forward opinions, but to harp on it to the extent Chamblee has is unnecessary.

post #152 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post

After looking at Foley, watching his vids, and then seeing what he does with players, I have no idea about his swing "theories." But there are advantages to teaching with Trackman. I guess that is the key to teaching now - understanding the numbers and how they relate to various aspects of the swing plane - horizontal, vertical, et al. I have no idea other than path and face angle - more to learn.

 

Getting back to Tiger, I watched Tiger's swing over the weekend - his head moves back slightly, his arms are not dialed into his body on the downswing, the cut doesn't always cut - but I guess Tiger has more confidence and is making course corrections.

 

Tiger's driving distance and short game seems to be returning - maybe that's the key. Not getting into too much trouble off the tee and having a great short game.

 

Maybe I (we) expect too much from Tiger.

His short game is certainly back on track, especially hitting his wedges with the right distance and spin. But I still wonder about his driving. In the seven holes he has played so far in the 4th round, he has yet to even come close to hitting a fairway, but Torrey Pines is very forgiving in that regard if you miss the fairway on the corrrect side. They showed a stat yesterday of his standing in fairways hit in the years that he has won at Torrey Pines and he averages somewhere like 60th. Apparently he knows he can miss fairways at Torrey, so I want to see how he drives it elsewhere before I decide he is out of the woods (no pun intended).

post #153 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post

 

Getting back to Tiger, I watched Tiger's swing over the weekend - his head moves back slightly, his arms are not dialed into his body on the downswing, the cut doesn't always cut - but I guess Tiger has more confidence and is making course corrections.

 

Tiger's driving distance and short game seems to be returning - maybe that's the key. Not getting into too much trouble off the tee and having a great short game.

 

 

i noticed that too...his head moved back a good 2 inches on one of his drives, caddie view.

 

the distance is there, irons are drilled powerfully.

post #154 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post

His short game is certainly back on track, especially hitting his wedges with the right distance and spin. But I still wonder about his driving. In the seven holes he has played so far in the 4th round, he has yet to even come close to hitting a fairway, but Torrey Pines is very forgiving in that regard if you miss the fairway on the corrrect side. They showed a stat yesterday of his standing in fairways hit in the years that he has won at Torrey Pines and he averages somewhere like 60th. Apparently he knows he can miss fairways at Torrey, so I want to see how he drives it elsewhere before I decide he is out of the woods (no pun intended).

The bold part is simply wrong. He missed 1 and 2 badly, 4 on the correct side and not by much. But pummled it down the 5th and 7th and barely was in the rough on 6. While that is wellbelow his play off the tee during the first three rounds, its not much below average for the field. I have rarely seen him drive it so accurate and long for a whole tournament. And in this newfound length he can always hit a wood out there if the fairways are narrow. But of course you got a point there, in theory it's always easy but he first has to deliver.

post #155 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwick View Post

The bold part is simply wrong. He missed 1 and 2 badly, 4 on the correct side and not by much. But pummled it down the 5th and 7th and barely was in the rough on 6. While that is wellbelow his play off the tee during the first three rounds, its not much below average for the field. I have rarely seen him drive it so accurate and long for a whole tournament. And in this newfound length he can always hit a wood out there if the fairways are narrow. But of course you got a point there, in theory it's always easy but he first has to deliver.

What are you talking about?!?!  He was in the first cut on #2. g2_eek.gifa2_wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith View Post

I hear what you are saying.  I guess the point I'm trying to make is along the lines of how can someone be so incredible critical of others (specifically Foley and the greatest player to arguably ever live) on how they approach the swing when HIS method of the way to do things resulted in such a basic career? 

 

I'm willing to bet (not that it could happen) if Sean Foley or someone with a similar approach to the swing "coached' Chamblee during his career and brought things to his attention that he is conveniently criticizing now, he would have done better as a professional and maybe won more.

 

These "new" teachers that Chamblee describes (Foley, our friends at 5SK, etc) are only bringing facts to the golf swing that MEAN something.  The information being taught is not "false." The ironic thing is that some of information that the "old school" teaching community taught was "false." 

 

Tiger is a big boy and knows his limitations.  I am sure Tiger pushes back onto Foley on certain things that he may not be comfortable with and in those cases, I am sure Foley would back off.  It's ok to bring forward opinions, but to harp on it to the extent Chamblee has is unnecessary.

Agreed.

 

His lack of knowledge could certainly pertain to his playing ability, but his career results aren't the cause of his lack of knowledge.  And based on things we hear from Faldo or Miller, it seems like the lack of knowledge isn't a cause for a poor playing career either.  Three things are true about Chamblee, in my opinion:  1)  He doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he knows.  2) He did not have a very impressive career.  3) Those 2 things really aren't related.

post #156 of 204

Has anyone else noticed that Tiger seems less bulky this year?

 

 

He looks almost lanky.

 

Maybe that's the key...

post #157 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post

Has anyone else noticed that Tiger seems less bulky this year?

 

 

He looks almost lanky.

 

Maybe that's the key...

 

He's eating out less these days and isn't hitting the 'Y' that much.

post #158 of 204

Back to Foley, I'm not that impressed after almost 3 years.

 

Lots of good things - swing is more steep, club looks good at top. 

 

But it seems the downswing becomes disconnected from the body at points.

 

And then his right arm seems to cross over the left very soon -I expected more TGM and  center pivot patterns.

 

I wish them the best but if this is it - Jack may have no worries.

post #159 of 204

Chamblee is paid to give his opinion on golf, and golfers.  In my opinion, that means his career has been pretty successful.  I'm not intent on defending Chamblee, but I never see Chamblee as critical of Tiger, just the choices he's made with respect to his golf swing.  A "why mess with what works" is a sensible approach for many folks, and it clearly "worked" with Butch Harmon.

 

I'm also a fan of the Foley swing.  Some of the best swings on tour (again, my opinion) are Foley coached players, including Tiger's "new" swing. 

post #160 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by carrx View Post

 

 

I'm also a fan of the Foley swing.  Some of the best swings on tour (again, my opinion) are Foley coached players, including Tiger's "new" swing. 

I might agree with you if Tiger's swing looked like Hunter Mahan's - if Hunter only had more short game.

 

I mean, does it take 3 years for the best golfer in the world to learn an inconsistent cut?

 

Seriously?

post #161 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo68 View Post

 

He's eating out less these days and isn't hitting the 'Y' that much.

 

Oh, snap!!!

post #162 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by colin007 View Post

 

Oh, snap!!!

Not going there ...

 

Tiger drives better when he goes with a smooth push draw.

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