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My Swing (Jetfan1983) - Page 9

post #145 of 257
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nevets88 View Post
 

Nice improvement.

 

I know that range on the bottom. Burlington? I've shanked a few there myself. Not on video though :-)

 

Thanks, man. Yep, that's Burlington. Day 1 of lessons with Steve Sieracki. 

 

The sad thing is, I don't even think I shanked that shot. My wrist is so cupped (plus the path), that this is the result of the geometry of the swing I was making during that time. Yikes! 

post #146 of 257
Good job,,,keep up the hards works,.
post #147 of 257
Thread Starter 

This may seem kind of like a pointless scoring milestone to some of you guys, but I shot a career low round at the par-3 course where I first began to practice golf. It's called Twin Brook Golf Center in Tinton Falls, NJ.

 

Holes range from 100-180 yards, and given that the greens are pretty gross, it can be challenging. There are hazards out there too obviously. 

 

Anyway, I broke 30 by shooting a +2 29. 

 

Stats:

 

GIR: 2/9

Up and down: 5/7

Putts: 12

 

Like I said, my irons are my weak link and it's not even close. My driving is probably on the level of a 5.0 and my short game is on the level of a scratch player or maybe 2.0 at worst. My irons are about a 16.0 though, which is terrible. But whatever, I've been hanging in there.

 

The funny thing is, I rarely practice short game. Technique is really what I got going for me... and the fact that I've developed touch now over the course of the last few months means I can just do it. Having a putter fitted to me certainly doesn't hurt either.

 

Hole 1: 145 yards. 9 iron. GIR. Missed the 12 footer. Par.

Hole 2: 125 yards. PW. Failed up and down from 8 feet off the green. Par.

Hole 3: 145 yards. 9 iron. Chipped the ball off the green (bad club selection because the green ran away from me, should have used a SW, but I used a GW) after I missed the green from the tee by 4 feet. Then I holed my next chip from 30 feet away (GW) for par.

Hole 4: 160 yards. 7 iron. Chip shot from 5 feet off the green hit the pin, leaving me a tap in. Par.

Hole 5: 165 yards. 7 iron. GIR. Missed the 6 footer. Par.

Hole 6: 125 yards. Missed right in squirrelly rough. SW pitch 8 feet passed. Made the putt. Par.

Hole 7: 138 yards. 9 iron. Missed right of the green by 5 feet. Poorly judged read of the green left me 10 feet for par. Missed. Bogey.

Hole 8: 100 yards. SW. Short of the green by 2 inches. Putted it to a foot. Par.

Hole 9: 180 yards. 6 iron. Missed right into squirrelly rough. Decided on a GW instead of a SW to get it running, but the rough tangled the club and I yanked it left. Had 12 feet for par and a 29. Draino.

 

Pretty awesome stuff.

 

Here's a vid from yesterday. Not hitting a shot. Just feeling "steep to shallow" and elbow positioning. There's too much weight in my heels, but this is a good way for me to feel what I hope to do when I actually hit the ball.... if I can get just a bit of this, that'll be a good thing:

 

 

post #148 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

 

 

"The three imperatives operate to correct faulty procedures. If they seem elusive, it is invariably because you are trying to execute them while you hit the ball – in your usual manor. That must all be reversed. Learn to do these things even if you miss the ball, until you no longer miss it. There is no alternative if you are looking to play precision golf."

 

Check!

post #149 of 257
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

"The three imperatives operate to correct faulty procedures. If they seem elusive, it is invariably because you are trying to execute them while you hit the ball – in your usual manor. That must all be reversed. Learn to do these things even if you miss the ball, until you no longer miss it. There is no alternative if you are looking to play precision golf."

 

Check!

 

Haha, yes! I'm scratching and clawing my way by the nanometer closer to my goals. 

 

Thanks for posting that. A) It's great to know you're there watching this thread still and B) I simply have to follow this advice. No ifs, ands or buts about it. Those practice swings are a shadow of what my actual swing is, but if I keep at it, I'll get a tad closer over time. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

 

Hole 1: 145 yards. 9 iron. GIR. Missed the 12 footer. Par.

Hole 2: 125 yards. PW. Failed up and down from 8 feet off the green. Par. Oops, this was a BOGEY. 

Hole 3: 145 yards. 9 iron. Chipped the ball off the green (bad club selection because the green ran away from me, should have used a SW, but I used a GW) after I missed the green from the tee by 4 feet. Then I holed my next chip from 30 feet away (GW) for par.

Hole 4: 160 yards. 7 iron. Chip shot from 5 feet off the green hit the pin, leaving me a tap in. Par.

Hole 5: 165 yards. 7 iron. GIR. Missed the 6 footer. Par.

Hole 6: 125 yards. Missed right in squirrelly rough. SW pitch 8 feet passed. Made the putt. Par. Oops, this was a PW off the tee.

Hole 7: 138 yards. 9 iron. Missed right of the green by 5 feet. Poorly judged read of the green left me 10 feet for par. Missed. Bogey.

Hole 8: 100 yards. SW. Short of the green by 2 inches. Putted it to a foot. Par.

Hole 9: 180 yards. 6 iron. Missed right into squirrelly rough. Decided on a GW instead of a SW to get it running, but the rough tangled the club and I yanked it left. Had 12 feet for par and a 29. Draino.

 

There is a clear trend here of missing right, which happened all day last weekend during my 77 and again here on four of the holes. 

 

 

Some misprints I corrected. 

 

I'm not worried about those two birdie misses from 12 and 6 feet. Oh well. If I hit more greens and give myself more opportunities, I'm pretty sure a few will fall. 

post #150 of 257
I love that steep to shallow practice swing,..ball makes a big difference though...exactly what I'm working on with more turn. Using the golf Mitrx training aid for the hips, I have no idea how to use that damn thing. Says I'm ok, which I totally disagree with. Technology is great, but old fashioned work is the only way to improve. Got this tip from iteach ..how to steep to shallow..used alignments sticks. Only way I could do with a ball there.,just a little something to help

Looks good what u are doing, nice job
Edited by c peterich - 10/19/13 at 8:58am
post #151 of 257
Thread Starter 

Man this is a hard game.

 

Working with James is probably the only thing keeping me from taking up bowling at this point. I really like what we're working on, and I've learned a ton from him about what I do wrong and what I have to do to fix it. And hey, when I get it right, it really is a beautiful 1 yard push draw dead center off the sweet spot. I love everything about that shot when I hit it obviously. The feel, the flight, the result... man, that's why I play this stupid game.

 

But when it doesn't work out for me, I'll hit a heel-cut that flies about 20% shorter. Ugh, I get the Homer Simpson shivers just thinking about it. It tires me out, it's a waste of time, effort... It's just a completely useless thing the universe thought would be cool to include in my existence. But what can you do besides sucking it up and teeing up another ball?

 

If there's one thing I really, really need to do more of, it's mapping. Today I just beat balls, and while that was awesome and fun when I was hitting the push draw, it was completely stupid to do when I got in a rut. I did map my way out of it a few times, but frankly, I should've just mapped the entire damn time. Maybe one full swing every 5 mapped ones.... I dunno. The point is, I don't think I'm mapping enough.

 

I have some videos but there really isn't much value in posting them right now. I know what's wrong, I know what I have to do, I know it's going to be hard, and I know I just have to practice and give it time to get it done. But it's difficult doing it on my own because the new movements are so insanely foreign to me. For example, without James, I never would have made the choice to try to hit a ball this way. It just doesn't compute. But I know it's correct. So I just keep trying to do it. And doing it when James isn't there is a lot harder than when he is there. 

 

 

But I'll stay positive. The next range session will be dominated by mapping. Shame on me -- and I deserve what I get -- if I don't listen to myself on this and stop trying to hit all these shots at full speed. No more 80% full shots, 20% mapping. That ratio needs to be at least reversed. 

 

Thanks, I needed to get that off my chest. 

post #152 of 257

JetFan, if it's any consolation, I hit 105 balls today, concentrating on keys 1,2 and 3, while swinging at about 60% max . After about 40 mins. I took out my 3 wood, and guess what, I couldn't hit a decent shot with it to save my soul. I spent 2 hours this evening looking at the 5SK videos, trying to figure out what I did wrong.

 

Even still after 2 months of following the 5SK's direction, key 1 still feels strange, just gotta stick with it. Keep at it, maybe we both can see some improvement soon..:beer:

post #153 of 257
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer 4 View Post
 

JetFan, if it's any consolation, I hit 105 balls today, concentrating on keys 1,2 and 3, while swinging at about 60% max . After about 40 mins. I took out my 3 wood, and guess what, I couldn't hit a decent shot with it to save my soul. I spent 2 hours this evening looking at the 5SK videos, trying to figure out what I did wrong.

 

Even still after 2 months of following the 5SK's direction, key 1 still feels strange, just gotta stick with it. Keep at it, maybe we both can see some improvement soon..:beer:

 

Thanks for the encouraging words, Hammer. Yea, I guess it does make me feel better that someone else had a rough range session today :-D

 

Yea, what's even more frustrating for me is I'm actually seeing a 5SK instructor in person and it's still really hard. In the most important of ways, it's extraordinarily easier because I get the priorities, and I get to have him watch every swing I make. I just do what he says. But, also, it's harder because the movements I have to make feel so insanely foreign. I get frustrated when the swing drifts back towards my crap natural tendencies. 

 

But, I guess the only way I'm going to get good at this game is to just keep on trucking with it and hoping time is my friend. 

 

Good luck to you too, and be sure to think about meeting with a 5SK guy in person. It really is a relief getting a pair of educated eyes to watch your practice sessions and then help you along the way. 

post #154 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

Man this is a hard game.

 

Working with James is probably the only thing keeping me from taking up bowling at this point. I really like what we're working on, and I've learned a ton from him about what I do wrong and what I have to do to fix it. And hey, when I get it right, it really is a beautiful 1 yard push draw dead center off the sweet spot. I love everything about that shot when I hit it obviously. The feel, the flight, the result... man, that's why I play this stupid game.

 

But when it doesn't work out for me, I'll hit a heel-cut that flies about 20% shorter. Ugh, I get the Homer Simpson shivers just thinking about it. It tires me out, it's a waste of time, effort... It's just a completely useless thing the universe thought would be cool to include in my existence. But what can you do besides sucking it up and teeing up another ball?

 

If there's one thing I really, really need to do more of, it's mapping. Today I just beat balls, and while that was awesome and fun when I was hitting the push draw, it was completely stupid to do when I got in a rut. I did map my way out of it a few times, but frankly, I should've just mapped the entire damn time. Maybe one full swing every 5 mapped ones.... I dunno. The point is, I don't think I'm mapping enough.

 

I have some videos but there really isn't much value in posting them right now. I know what's wrong, I know what I have to do, I know it's going to be hard, and I know I just have to practice and give it time to get it done. But it's difficult doing it on my own because the new movements are so insanely foreign to me. For example, without James, I never would have made the choice to try to hit a ball this way. It just doesn't compute. But I know it's correct. So I just keep trying to do it. And doing it when James isn't there is a lot harder than when he is there. 

 

 

But I'll stay positive. The next range session will be dominated by mapping. Shame on me -- and I deserve what I get -- if I don't listen to myself on this and stop trying to hit all these shots at full speed. No more 80% full shots, 20% mapping. That ratio needs to be at least reversed. 

 

Thanks, I needed to get that off my chest. 


Yeah, @JetFan1983 , it's really hard to find the dedication and will power to map and stick with it all session, inevitably your brain starts saying, "yeah, I think I got it, now lets smack a few for real and see what happens," and before you know it you're back to smacking all of 'em instead of working through the slow movements with an occasional full speed to test the waters. Hey, if spending the proper amount of time on mapping and teaching your body the correct movements was as easy as saying it, we'd all be scratch right?

post #155 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post


Yeah, @JetFan1983
, it's really hard to find the dedication and will power to map and stick with it all session, inevitably your brain starts saying, "yeah, I think I got it, now lets smack a few for real and see what happens," and before you know it you're back to smacking all of 'em instead of working through the slow movements with an occasional full speed to test the waters. Hey, if spending the proper amount of time on mapping and teaching your body the correct movements was as easy as saying it, we'd all be scratch right?

Mapping, if I'm interpreting it correctly, is similar to what some pianists do to master a difficult section called slow practice. Good pianists also want to sound virtuosic and playing a tough section slowly, that's really boring but many teachers and famous pianists recommend it. But walk outside the practice rooms of a conservatory and it's not done that much, lots of banging away. A search on slow practice will return tons of suggestions and techniques. Maybe you might find one of them helpful for golf. One piano tip is to write down the fingering. What I do is have the text of the (swing) moves I need to make on my smartphone. I take out the phone and read the paragraph or two every so often multiple times. between swings. Sounds silly but it helps keep me focused.
post #156 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer 4 View Post
 

Even still after 2 months of following the 5SK's direction, key 1 still feels strange, just gotta stick with it. Keep at it, maybe we both can see some improvement soon..:beer:

 

Hammer, it's OT for this thread, but I have to ask… how do you know you're doing the things properly? You should film some video and start a "My Swing" thread. Key #1 sounds simple (and you can't really focus on three things at once), but it's still requires the coordination and timing of a fair number of things.

 

Start a "My Swing" thread… and focus on ONE key at a time.

post #157 of 257
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

Yeah, @JetFan1983 , it's really hard to find the dedication and will power to map and stick with it all session, inevitably your brain starts saying, "yeah, I think I got it, now lets smack a few for real and see what happens," and before you know it you're back to smacking all of 'em instead of working through the slow movements with an occasional full speed to test the waters. Hey, if spending the proper amount of time on mapping and teaching your body the correct movements was as easy as saying it, we'd all be scratch right?

 

Agreed. Yea, you basically nailed it. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nevets88 View Post


Mapping, if I'm interpreting it correctly, is similar to what some pianists do to master a difficult section called slow practice. Good pianists also want to sound virtuosic and playing a tough section slowly, that's really boring but many teachers and famous pianists recommend it. But walk outside the practice rooms of a conservatory and it's not done that much, lots of banging away. A search on slow practice will return tons of suggestions and techniques. Maybe you might find one of them helpful for golf. One piano tip is to write down the fingering. What I do is have the text of the (swing) moves I need to make on my smartphone. I take out the phone and read the paragraph or two every so often multiple times. between swings. Sounds silly but it helps keep me focused.

 

True, and yeah I have notes I refer to when I practice. I keep them in my back pocket. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer 4 View Post
 

Even still after 2 months of following the 5SK's direction, key 1 still feels strange, just gotta stick with it. Keep at it, maybe we both can see some improvement soon..:beer:

 

Hammer, it's OT for this thread, but I have to ask… how do you know you're doing the things properly? You should film some video and start a "My Swing" thread. Key #1 sounds simple (and you can't really focus on three things at once), but it's still requires the coordination and timing of a fair number of things.

 

Start a "My Swing" thread… and focus on ONE key at a time.

 

Agreed with the starting of a "My swing" thread. I would go further in suggesting to seek in-person instruction. 

 

And I have zero problem with any off-topic discussions on my swing thread from you, Mike, the regulars, etc. Discuss away. 


 

I mapped for about an hour today. The latest responses in my thread really helped me stay focused and stick to the game plan. Thanks @Ernest Jones@Hammer 4, and @nevets88 . I really appreciate you guys taking time to send me some advice. I relied on it during the boring/annoying stretches of this slow motion work. 

post #158 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Hammer, it's OT for this thread, but I have to ask… how do you know you're doing the things properly? You should film some video and start a "My Swing" thread. Key #1 sounds simple (and you can't really focus on three things at once), but it's still requires the coordination and timing of a fair number of things.

 

Start a "My Swing" thread… and focus on ONE key at a time.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure if I'm doing things properly. I can only go off how the ball reacts, and how impact feels. I'll try and set up a vid of my swing. Also, I'm planning on having Mike give me a lesson when he comes up to El Dorado, hopefully it will be soon, otherwise I'll make an appointment with Dan D.

 

I usually work on keys 1 and 2 together, with my bad back, it's really hard not to want to come up out of the shot, but that's another thread. Thanks

post #159 of 257
Thread Starter 

I made an eagle today. Pretty unexpected considering the conditions. The course was soaking wet (cart path only), so all my drives got stuck in their pitch marks upon landing. It was challenging in that regard. However, on the 461 yard par 5, I reached in two and sunk the putt. I ran out of day light after that and unfortunately only got a few holes in. 

 

OK, obviously, it's a short hole, and all the regulars here call it a par-4. But it's somewhat demanding as far as placement goes, so that tends to make up for the shortness of length. The green is small too. All that being said, it's an obvious birdie hole for whoever plays it, so there's that too.

 

Driver, 3-hybrid, 12 foot putt. Sweet. First time playing in a while too, and this was a pleasant surprise to say the least. 

 

On the range, I was struggling big time, going thru my James check list of things that I really have to monitor; however, nothing was working really. I went in the clubhouse and found the head pro who looked at my swing on video and told me I was really shut at the top. Then, I remembered James telling me many, many times "do not palmar flex your lead wrist AT ALL because that wrist condition does not match the other components of your swing." Essentially what I think happens is this: the shut P4 position leads to me needing to open the face at some point in the downswing, or I'll never be able to start the ball right enough. Long clubs are too difficult to hit high. So I compensate by somehow opening it up and kicking the clubhead out... it's not a fun way to play this game.

 

Now, instead, with the cupped wrist, I can go from open to less open on the downswing, and actually hit the ball with enough loft. For whatever reason, this really matches the other pieces of my swing.

 

 

So I got to the course finally after the rain died down. There was barely enough light to play a few holes. So, as I walked to the first tee, I decided all I would feel was extreme dorsiflexion throughout my backswing... and it worked... I remember using this feel on the day I shot 77 back in October. I went away from it after it was somewhat ingrained and James and I began working on different things; however, over the last two month layoff, I guess it went away, and I went back to my palmar flexed wrist condition at P4.

 

It's crazy how I cannot feel bowing AT ALL when I play. Three years ago, it worked wonders. It's the primary reason I dropped ten strokes that season.  Now, it's a death move. 

 

Anyway, I'm strongly considering another James clinic in Orlando soon.... I'll post some vids and blog my progress after that. This thread needs to be a better record of the various feels and mechanical changes I'm experiencing, so I can better understand my progression over the long term. I wish I had a post here where I wrote about how important cupping the wrist is to my swing.

 

PS- Sorry no videos... All my swing vids from today are of me taking the club back too shallow, bowing my wrist, laying the shaft off, and then tipping it out by P5. I didn't get any of my dorsiflexed swings on camera, so who knows if I was actually doing that or not. Hopefully you guys will trust me when I say that's what was happening :-D 

post #160 of 257
Hi.. Ya, I can feel your frustration as I am going through the same feelings.. I look forward to reading more about your progress!
post #161 of 257

Congrats on the eagle!!  I can relate ... I had one last year like that.  A 460-something par 5 with a smallish green.  I should birdie this hole every single time, but alas I don't. ;)  Still, it's an eagle in my book, even if it is the "cheapest" one I've ever made. ;)

 

Looking forward to seeing new videos!

post #162 of 257
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post

Hi.. Ya, I can feel your frustration as I am going through the same feelings.. I look forward to reading more about your progress!

 

Hey, thanks, man. Appreciate it. 

 

Yea, I'm kinda dealing with some slight tendonitis for some reason in my lead elbow, but I think it'll be okay. Let's hope, so I can keep practicing regularly and keeping this thread going. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Congrats on the eagle!!  I can relate ... I had one last year like that.  A 460-something par 5 with a smallish green.  I should birdie this hole every single time, but alas I don't. ;)  Still, it's an eagle in my book, even if it is the "cheapest" one I've ever made. ;)

 

Looking forward to seeing new videos!

 

 

Yea, good way to start 2014 for sure. It's probably not a true, "damn that was a sick eagle on a 585 par 5 you just made," but oh well. At this point, I'll take whatever I can get. 

 

Yea same here. I should birdie it every time. I could go 3-wood, PW, SW on it probably every time if I wanted. But of course, I have to go for it every time for some reason. Just feels wrong to lay up on that hole.

 

Thanks for the reply, GD. 

 

PS- Aimpoint really helped in reading that putt because there was no light left at that point. The only thing I had were my feet to feel the slope of the green. 

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