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OK, then that explains why my divots were getting so huge lately. No matter how much I pushed my hips forward or tried to straighten my legs through the shot, the divot depth could not improve.
I actually specifically asked Mike Bennett about this (Hitting up or down with driver in an inline pattern) but felt I had insufficient knowledge to support the 5SK side of the argument, so I basically lost the argument. Right now, I cannot recall exactly what Mike B was telling me, but it had a lot to do with what they discuss in S&T 2.0. Essentially, the main thing I took away from that conversation is that apparently trackman data can be interpreted differently.
I'll keep it short, but basically, they don't have an answer. Trackman data cannot be interpreted "differently." Hitting up reduces the spin loft and results in longer carries with less spin. The physics behind modern ball flight and maximizing it is fairly well known, and at the end of the day if at a certain ball speed (give or take 5-10 MPH) the ideal launch conditions for you are 12.5° and 2500 RPM spin, you're going to have a heck of a time getting 12.5° launch with a driver and a negative AoA.
They've never given me a good reason, and I simply don't participate in that conversation with them anymore.
If anything, I'm Ben Stiller's character. "Your fingers hurt? Well... now your back's gonna hurt... cause you just pulled landscapin' duty.... Anybody else's finger's hurt?... I didn't think so."
Little more detail than what I gave him but good for others to see.
- From caddy view, head was going to too far forward in the back swing then has to back up in the downswing. Too much "Jack Nicklaus" neck tilt leading to too much extension, also no internal rotation of the left knee on the backswing.
- Right elbow retraces too far behind, leads to the shaft getting a little steep on the way down, also because the weight is going from the heels to the toes.
Recommendations:
- Less foot flare on each foot, especially the left. Turn the left foot 30 degrees, 25 degrees right. Will also get the weight more centered, less in the heels. Left knee will be able to have some internal rotation. Knees control the hips, hips control the shoulders.
- Tilt the head to the right slightly at A1. Chin points left center of your stance, right ear will feel closer to your right shoulder. This will get the extension rates under control
- More rotation in the torso, will feel like you're more in flexion from A1-4. Put an alignment stick in the middle of your stance and get the left shoulder to that stick.
Going to make Key #2, weight forward at impact, so much easier. Probably feel like the head moves back and like there is more "weight" right on the back swing.
Thanks for suggesting I come back over here and read up, Jetfan! These are the exact same two pieces I'm working on through Evolvr (with Stephan) right now. If I get stuck, I'l just peek over here for some new feels or ideas to solve the problem! (Half the reason I'm on TST all day anyway :))
Are there any other drills or feels Mike has you working on to keep the elbows closer together?
Are there any other drills or feels Mike has you working on to keep the elbows closer together?
Nah, Mike doesn't want me to worry about that for a few days. I'm just working on making a centered pivot a natural motion for me. Yesterday at the range, I was leaving too much weight on my back foot -- something I haven't done in a long time -- so I have to be monitoring my foot pressures and such now. I'll probably shoot Mike another video in a few days or something.
I did however order a training aid to get me to keep them together -- it looks ridiculous -- but hey, I'm willing to look dumb if there's a chance I'll play better. I'll review it once I get it.
At this point, I'm beginning to think that getting the correct elbow positioning, wrist cock amounts, and a consistent flat left wrist is partly a result of having a super correct body motion -- not entirely of course as one certainly needs to practice getting better arm function -- but that plays a role. This is just a theory of mine though.... All that said, I will certainly post about my elbow related work once I get to it with Mike.
PS- Actually, wait. He did send me this vid, which I'm sure you've seen already:
I found it extremely difficult, so for now, I'm not worrying about it. I have a feeling I'll be doing this drill though again sometime in the near future.
Are there any other drills or feels Mike has you working on to keep the elbows closer together?
Nah, Mike doesn't want me to worry about that for a few days. I'm just working on making a centered pivot a natural motion for me. Yesterday at the range, I was leaving too much weight on my back foot -- something I haven't done in a long time -- so I have to be monitoring my foot pressures and such now. I'll probably shoot Mike another video in a few days or something.
I did however order a training aid to get me to keep them together -- it looks ridiculous -- but hey, I'm willing to look dumb if there's a chance I'll play better. I'll review it once I get it.
At this point, I'm beginning to think that getting the correct elbow positioning, wrist cock amounts, and a consistent flat left wrist is partly a result of having a super correct body motion -- not entirely of course as one certainly needs to practice getting better arm function -- but that plays a role. This is just a theory of mine though.... All that said, I will certainly post about my elbow related work once I get to it with Mike.
PS- Actually, wait. He did send me this vid, which I'm sure you've seen already:
I found it extremely difficult, so for now, I'm not worrying about it. I have a feeling I'll be doing this drill though again sometime in the near future.
Actually, what about this drill.
I just sent a Youtube message to Mario Bevalaqua asking him if this drill would be useful to someone trying to learn pitch elbow. And if anyone can explain the nuances of this drill and what it achieves, it'd be greatly appreciated
I would say you can have a punch or pitch elbow and do this drill. It's a drill that makes sure you don't stall the pivot. Also notice how open his shoulders are at A7. This would be a great drill for someone that gets the club head under at A6, shoulders steep, right under the left. Good drill for anyone else too , just have to understand you need to increase the torso rotation or you'll chunk/thin it. Helps you understand that you don't manually hold the wedge, something has to happen to sustain it.
I would say you can have a punch or pitch elbow and do this drill. It's a drill that makes sure you don't stall the pivot. Also notice how open his shoulders are at A7. This would be a great drill for someone that gets the club head under at A6, shoulders steep, right under the left. Good drill for anyone else too , just have to understand you need to increase the torso rotation or you'll chunk/thin it. Helps you understand that you don't manually hold the wedge, something has to happen to sustain it.
So, in summation, a good drill for anybody but not to help get the pitch elbow?
I would say you can have a punch or pitch elbow and do this drill. It's a drill that makes sure you don't stall the pivot. Also notice how open his shoulders are at A7. This would be a great drill for someone that gets the club head under at A6, shoulders steep, right under the left. Good drill for anyone else too , just have to understand you need to increase the torso rotation or you'll chunk/thin it. Helps you understand that you don't manually hold the wedge, something has to happen to sustain it.
So, in summation, a good drill for anybody but not to help get the pitch elbow?
I did the drill for about 20-25 balls today and Mike is spot on for what it does. It didn't really help too much with pitch elbow. That said, I hit a 180 yard driver with just my right arm and it looked really badass when I did that
I actually worked on maintaing my inclination to the ground on the downswing today to combat my early extension. I felt like I was really returning to flexion as I turned into P6, and basically like I was adding inclination with my upper body while I was using the ground for leverage and straightening my legs through the shot. I hit some really straight and solid balls doing this. My lower back feels somewhat sore, so I probably stayed in flexion a bit too long, but at least I was doing it I guess.
It rained all day, so no video. Still, I think that by not early extending, that alone helped me maintain pitch elbow and wrist cock a little longer into my downswing. I'll confirm what I'm doing with video whenever it stops raining. Feel isn't real obviously, but the results were good. I used the visual of Tiger or Rory. If you've ever studied their swings, you know how much they add inclination on their downswings while using the jumping piece with their legs.... well maybe not "add," but they certainly don't subtract like I do.
Between this, that David Orr video you sent, and my new evolvr lesson (plus the fact that we've discussed this issue in the past), we're on the same page. Once I get to the range, I'll shoot you some videos that night just to see how I'm getting it. Thanks, Mike.
Just to say farewell, here's a swing from last week that I won't be making anymore. It's too aggressive for my liking, so I am officially dropping down to a much more relaxed, smooth tempo. Still, it's fun when I flush 'em doing this, but it's not good in the long run -- right elbow collapsing, still too much head movement but maybe not, and of course, its' tough to control the clubface swinging so hard.
Per evolvr, hopefully we can fix that right arm, and the general arm path I am making on the backswing, this week.
Bye bye, long drive golf swing! I'm switching to the following on course swing thought (plus evolvr stuff too, on the range mostly, but we'll see how that goes): "Swing like a 70 year old man." Keeps the ball in play so well.
When you learn to chip and putt like some of those 70 year old vultures you'll be on to shooting some really low scores.
Yea, I definitely agree with that. Amazing up and down percentages for those older veterans that I need more of in my game. I'm making it a goal this year to become an up and down machine. Improving my misses around the greens with the full swing will be a major part of improving that though as it is certainly difficult to save par when I miss a green by 30 yards.
Yea, I definitely agree with that. Amazing up and down percentages for those older veterans that I need more of in my game. I'm making it a goal this year to become an up and down machine. Improving my misses around the greens with the full swing will be a major part of improving that though as it is certainly difficult to save par when I miss a green by 30 yards.
, just have to understand you need to increase the torso rotation or you'll chunk/thin it. Helps you understand that you don't manually hold the wedge, something has to happen to sustain it.
