Wedges: Why do so many bag a 52*, 56*, 60*? - Page 4

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Originally Posted by zeg 

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Originally Posted by BrokeLoser 

Haha..that's to funny...the 60* hype / gimmick...most would be better off leaving it at home so they aren't tempted to hit it and ruin their score...much like a driver.

 

Bah, I don't understand the hate on the 60°. I'm not what you'd call a great golfer, but I use a 60° for most of my short game play. Sure, I occasionally blade one, but I also occasionally bladed my 56°, and my 54°, and my 52°. When I don't blade it, I find I get as good or better results with it as I did with the others. After all, on most chips I'm delofting anyway, so there's really very little extra risk of sliding under or blading the ball.

 

The only situation where it gives me trouble is on full or nearly-full strokes from either serious hardpan or a fluffy teed-up lie. Again, those are problematic with any of my clubs, and my distance with the 60° is limited enough that I don't often find that situation. If I do, I can play less than a full stroke with a longer club. Having a slightly lower-lofted wedge just to take a full swing with isn't going to help me very often.

 

Personally, I don't find much difference in playability between about 56° and 60°. I think a novice would be better served grabbing whatever loft they've got and practicing with it rather than fretting over a few degrees.

I haven't read anyone hating on the 60s.  It's a golf club and I've yet to see a golf club make a bad shot.  My/our point is that a lot of "us" pick up the wrong club at the wrong time or pick up the right club and feel the need to play the wrong shot just because of the degree of the club.  That all. 

Sure, bad shots occur with ever club in the bag but you have to admit, it happens a lot more often with the higher lofted clubs in the bag.  I see hacks chipping with a 60-64* all the time when the same shot would be excuted much easier with their putter or 8 iron. 

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Originally Posted by dak4n6 

 

For me, wedge play is all about feel and creativity.

I wish I could've put it that simply..

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Originally Posted by ClayHbg 

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Originally Posted by zeg 

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Originally Posted by BrokeLoser 

Haha..that's to funny...the 60* hype / gimmick...most would be better off leaving it at home so they aren't tempted to hit it and ruin their score...much like a driver.

 

Bah, I don't understand the hate on the 60°. I'm not what you'd call a great golfer, but I use a 60° for most of my short game play. Sure, I occasionally blade one, but I also occasionally bladed my 56°, and my 54°, and my 52°. When I don't blade it, I find I get as good or better results with it as I did with the others. After all, on most chips I'm delofting anyway, so there's really very little extra risk of sliding under or blading the ball.

 

The only situation where it gives me trouble is on full or nearly-full strokes from either serious hardpan or a fluffy teed-up lie. Again, those are problematic with any of my clubs, and my distance with the 60° is limited enough that I don't often find that situation. If I do, I can play less than a full stroke with a longer club. Having a slightly lower-lofted wedge just to take a full swing with isn't going to help me very often.

 

Personally, I don't find much difference in playability between about 56° and 60°. I think a novice would be better served grabbing whatever loft they've got and practicing with it rather than fretting over a few degrees.

I haven't read anyone hating on the 60s.  It's a golf club and I've yet to see a golf club make a bad shot.  My/our point is that a lot of "us" pick up the wrong club at the wrong time or pick up the right club and feel the need to play the wrong shot just because of the degree of the club.  That all. 

 

Sure, bad shots occur with ever club in the bag but you have to admit, it happens a lot more often with the higher lofted clubs in the bag.  I see hacks chipping with a 60-64* all the time when the same shot would be excuted much easier with their putter or 8 iron. 

I see a lot of people try and play pitch and runs (or long chips potayto potahto) with too much loft. Their ball checks up almost immediately then they start cussing at their bad luck. Then someone else hits a similar shot with an 8 iron to tap range and they don't make the connection. I see it every time I play in  a scramble. Then of course the same guy who struggles to chip his 60 half way to the hole is faced with a shot perfectly suited to a low bounce 60 and they either skull it 40 yards long or bury the thing up to the hosel and still don't make it 1/2 way to the hole. Some people are awful and they need to pick 1 stick and master it. Unfortunately the club they've chosen to try and master is the 60 degree wedge and they're going about it all bass ackwards.

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Originally Posted by ClayHbg 

I haven't read anyone hating on the 60s.

 

[...]

 

Sure, bad shots occur with ever club in the bag but you have to admit, it happens a lot more often with the higher lofted clubs in the bag.  I see hacks chipping with a 60-64* all the time when the same shot would be excuted much easier with their putter or 8 iron. 

The hating hasn't been bad in this thread, but it certainly has been historically speaking. That's what I was referring to.

I don't know that I agree that bad shots happen a lot more with the higher-lofted clubs. I've tried a lot of different methods, including routinely using irons for chipping, and I've found I get the best results with a high-lofted wedge. In some situations I'll use a 7 or 8 iron, but I haven't experienced the sorts of difficulties with lob wedges that the "common wisdom" seems to describe.

I'm currently playing a 50/56/60 wedge set.

I will say however, that now that I have wedges with the right bounce, I find the need for a 60 degree wedge less and less unless I really need something to land softly on the downslope. My 56 can cover almost all pitching distances with ample backspin and bite. The 60 degree is reserved for certain finesse shots and some specific distances.

I've found there are two types of players -- those who like to keep it close to the ground and those who like to fly by air. If I've got a lot of ups, downs, and arounds on a green, and I'm a few yards off the green, I'll get there by air. If I've got a flattish green, I might pull out the 55; or for the long runner the 49. I don't like using an 8i - never have, never will. It's really old school, not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm not comfy with that much roll.

You're right about that, I was one of them and know many.   I think part of it is newer golfers spend most of their time practicing their full swing and dedicate very little time to their short game (except putting in their yard or house) which as I know now is a big mistake.  I think part of it, it seems like a waste to practice chipping at the range when you're paying for bucket, but it's defintely helped my game to spend more time on it.  Phil uses a 64 too. 

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Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond 

I've found the reason most people can't handle any club around the green is that they have poor fundamentals. It has nothing to do with the fact that the club is a wedge -- it's that around the greens they go weird -- they use their arms so much that they get away from the body, the weight shift is everywhere, they have no rhythm, and they are stiff. It's just that they pick up a wedge around the greens and we tend to blame it on the wedge. But the problem is the player, not the club.

 

As to wedges, I once did 4 degrees of separation, but have no problem with 5 - I think Phil M does 50, 55, 60 at most times, or did...

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Originally Posted by newtogolf 

You're right about that, I was one of them and know many.   I think part of it is newer golfers spend most of their time practicing their full swing and dedicate very little time to their short game (except putting in their yard or house) which as I know now is a big mistake.  I think part of it, it seems like a waste to practice chipping at the range when you're paying for bucket, but it's defintely helped my game to spend more time on it.  Phil uses a 64 too. 

When I'm at the chipping area I just started to notice that 90% of the people practicing are all trying to hit some type of flop shot. No one is ever trying to run one it's always a flop which most of them skull, chunk, or leave it half way to the hole. Everyone is comfortable with different shots but I just don't see how getting the ball rolling asap is not the easiest shot for everyone when you can do it.

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Originally Posted by clubchamp 

When I'm at the chipping area I just started to notice that 90% of the people practicing are all trying to hit some type of flop shot. No one is ever trying to run one it's always a flop which most of them skull, chunk, or leave it half way to the hole. Everyone is comfortable with different shots but I just don't see how getting the ball rolling asap is not the easiest shot for everyone when you can do it.

Partly, I think it depends on the kind of practice green you have for chipping. Part of the reason I'm much more comfortable flying a relatively large fraction of the way is probably because most of my practice was at a course that didn't have a true green in the short game area. The "green" was more like fairway. This made it essentially impossible to learn to judge the roll-out of a running chip.

Whatever the reason, I've never been able to get consistent distance control when chipping with irons. I either land it short of where I intended and get caught up in something, or send it rolling 10 yards past the cup and off the green. With my wedge and flying chips, when I miss, I'm usually in a better spot on the green.

Everyone's game is going to be a bit different, and their club needs will be different.

When I first started golfing I used a PW for everything from 130 and frankly it didn't matter what I used (I was terrible).  Eventually I got a SW, strictly for the beach.  Once I got comfortable with it I started using from 90yds and in and my PW for anything between 90 and 130.  As my game progressed, I started realizing a club with very little bounce came in very useful so I picked up a 60* (8 bounce) and it changed my game around the green.  Over this past year I found quite often to be in the position where a PW was too long and a SW was too short.  I was missing a lot of greens due to that, so I started looking at gap wedges and once I got one it instantly saved me 2 or so strokes a round.

Currently my wedge set up is:  PW 47*, GW 52*, SW 56*, and LW 60*.  Currently this gives me solid distance gaps and I'm hitting roughly 85% of greens from 130 and in.  When I miss the green, this wedge set up leaves me covered for every lie/shot I come across.  I took the 5W out of the bag to accomodate the extra wedge, because my percentage of scoring better with the extra wedge is much better than with the 5W.

It's great to come on here and get other people's thoughts and opinions, as it might provide one with something they hadn't already thought of.  But at the end of the day, we all have to figure out what works best for our own game.  Some people can lay it down with a LW, and thus it makes sense to have one.  Some are better with a SW, etc.  My friend's Dad is 72 years young and a 10 HCP and he uses a PW for everything around the green other than the sand.  Use what works for you!

Good luck working out the short game BrokeLoser!

45, 51, 56, 60 for me.

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Originally Posted by sean_miller 

Regarding gaps and such, it depends on how you hit them.  For me, a 49 (PW), 53, 57, 60 combination gives me a true sand wedge and a true lob wedge.  I'd love to go 54/60 and like I said earlier in this thread, I am trying to work a 53/58 into service, but in both sets (Ben Hogan forged and Scratch respectively) the lob wedge seems to be a compromise between a sand wedge and a lob wedge. I could likely get two aftermarket wedges and pair them together, but it seems with 3-wedge sets they each have a distinct purpose and distance - after having them tweaked/bent to my personal preference.

Interesting.  Did you get your iron set bent?  Or do the Hogan irons come with very classic lofts?  My set would be perfect if I could get the irons all bent 2˚ weaker (currently from 20˚ 3i to 46˚ PW, with the first 4˚ gap between 5i and 6i).  

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Originally Posted by mdl 

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Originally Posted by sean_miller 

Regarding gaps and such, it depends on how you hit them.  For me, a 49 (PW), 53, 57, 60 combination gives me a true sand wedge and a true lob wedge.  I'd love to go 54/60 and like I said earlier in this thread, I am trying to work a 53/58 into service, but in both sets (Ben Hogan forged and Scratch respectively) the lob wedge seems to be a compromise between a sand wedge and a lob wedge. I could likely get two aftermarket wedges and pair them together, but it seems with 3-wedge sets they each have a distinct purpose and distance - after having them tweaked/bent to my personal preference.

 

Interesting.  Did you get your iron set bent?  Or do the Hogan irons come with very classic lofts?  My set would be perfect if I could get the irons all bent 2˚ weaker (currently from 20˚ 3i to 46˚ PW, with the first 4˚ gap between 5i and 6i).  

The wedge sets I'm trying to get used to are Ben Hogan and Scratch. The iron sets I'm trying to match them to are Cleveland TA1s (49 degree PW was standard - currently using Mizuno wedges) and Mizuno MP-11 (PW bent 1 degree weak - ironically using Cleveland 588s with that setup).

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Originally Posted by mdl 

 

Interesting.  Did you get your iron set bent?  Or do the Hogan irons come with very classic lofts?  My set would be perfect if I could get the irons all bent 2˚ weaker (currently from 20˚ 3i to 46˚ PW, with the first 4˚ gap between 5i and 6i).  

This is exactly what I have in my set. I have a 20* hybrid so I didn't want my 3 iron and 3 hybrid to be 1* different. 

3-24

4-27

5-31

6-35

7-39

8-43

9-47

PW-51

After working on my chipping a lot with my 56* wedge.. im not entirely sure i need the 60*.. last outing i had an incredible 30 yard wedge shot that hopped onto the green and rolled a bit-- right into the hole.. so of course i'm in love with this 56* at the moment.  the posts mentioning body weight and swing mechanics are right.. soooooo right. that was where i was struggling.. and completely throwing all my mechanics out the window just because i had a close wedge shot. Now that I'm using my body more, shifting weight, etc.. it hits beautifully. 

I don't want to keep doing runners though.. so i do feel like a 60* would be great for bloopers that need that height without going so far. We'll see.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond 

 I don't like using an 8i - never have, never will. It's really old school, not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm not comfy with that much roll.

my sentiments exactly - it's like treating the long pitch shot as a lofted lag putt - hate that.     Airmail for me with my 53 all day every day for those shots... 

I'm experimenting with a 64 lately for short sided shots greenside - with the hardpan fairways, can't open up my 58 to get a proper lob, so the 64 straight on seems to work better for these delicate finesse shots.