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Mike Weir- will he ever make it back? - Page 2

post #19 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocks View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post

As far as Bubba and Keegan go, he has more wins and more $ than the two of them COMBINED. Not Tiger, but you are selling him a bit short.

I've never thought of Weir as a superstar, so I was curious about exactly how much money he had made. And I was surprised to find that he's 18th on the career money list, with nearly $27 million. For comparison, 62-time winner Arnold Palmer's career earnings are $1.86 million.

Even more surprising to me is Jim Furyk, who is 4th all time, with $51.8 million. That's not inflation, that's the big bang.

And it's why pro golfers should name all their kids, including their daughters, after Tiger. Yes, I know that other sports pay big money, too, but only a handful of them. Some of the richest tournaments in professional bowling have a first prize of only around $10 K. Sports with a much larger participation base, like skiing and swimming and cycling, get next to no TV coverage outside of the Olympics or Tour de France.

Only a superstar who delivered ratings high enough to make sponsors cough up megamillions for TV contracts made it possible for PGA events to offer over a million bucks to the winners of regular events --- as Phil Mickelson has said on several occasions.

 

A lot of corporations have coughed up money they didn't have in order to look more successful than they were and so CEOs and real estate developers could associate with the elite of a sport they all played very badly on weekends. Now the PGA Tour scrambles to find more sponsors at the expense of lesser tours like the LPGA. Yay Tiger!!!

post #20 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

 

A lot of corporations have coughed up money they didn't have in order to look more successful than they were and so CEOs and real estate developers could associate with the elite of a sport they all played very badly on weekends. Now the PGA Tour scrambles to find more sponsors at the expense of lesser tours like the LPGA. Yay Tiger!!!


I do not believe, for a second, that the PGA is taking anything away from the LPGA. Lets not kid ourselves, 10x as many people watch Male sports (NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL, CFL, FIFA) sports over female (LPGA, WNBA, CWHL, etc etc), and I may be a bit generous toward  the women in that ratio.

 

Sponsors go where they will get the most exposure, and that is the PGA. The LPGA will never see the sort of viewership and exposure the PGA gets. People want to see the best in the world, unequivocally men, hit lond drives and great approaches. We don't wanna watch women layup to get on a par 5 in three. Until people start watching the lesser tours, they will never come close to the same earnings.

 

It makes me laughwhen people bitch about Tiger. The man did more for Golf than anyone aside for maybe Bobby Jones, and that is debatable. If it were not for Tiger Woods, the PGA would still be struggling, and the game would be far less popular. We have Tiger Woods to thank for bringing young people to the game. He is responsible for the immense popularity of the PGA, and every pro golfer owes their living to him right now. Nicklaus never made in a lifetime what woods did by the end of his third season. And im not counting sponsors.

post #21 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApocG10 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

 

A lot of corporations have coughed up money they didn't have in order to look more successful than they were and so CEOs and real estate developers could associate with the elite of a sport they all played very badly on weekends. Now the PGA Tour scrambles to find more sponsors at the expense of lesser tours like the LPGA. Yay Tiger!!!


I do not believe, for a second, that the PGA is taking anything away from the LPGA. Lets not kid ourselves, 10x as many people watch Male sports (NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL, CFL, FIFA) sports over female (LPGA, WNBA, CWHL, etc etc), and I may be a bit generous toward  the women in that ratio.

 

Sponsors go where they will get the most exposure, and that is the PGA. The LPGA will never see the sort of viewership and exposure the PGA gets. People want to see the best in the world, unequivocally men, hit lond drives and great approaches. We don't wanna watch women layup to get on a par 5 in three. Until people start watching the lesser tours, they will never come close to the same earnings.

 

It makes me laughwhen people bitch about Tiger. The man did more for Golf than anyone aside for maybe Bobby Jones, and that is debatable. If it were not for Tiger Woods, the PGA would still be struggling, and the game would be far less popular. We have Tiger Woods to thank for bringing young people to the game. He is responsible for the immense popularity of the PGA, and every pro golfer owes their living to him right now. Nicklaus never made in a lifetime what woods did by the end of his third season. And im not counting sponsors.

 

And the hijack is complete. Another thread bites the dust.

post #22 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

 

Yeah, I didn't read this because I guess what I was saying to Brocks is that not every thread on this forum has to be hijacked by his Tiger Woods worshiping.

I have a ton of respect for Tiger, but one of the reasons I started this thread is that I think too much attention is paid to Woods and not enough to other quality golfers with impressive results who will not make the Hall of Fame...I always find it comical when someone says a particular player is not that good when the reality is that the poster could get a shot a hole and still lose to the guy.

post #23 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

 

Yeah, I didn't read this because I guess what I was saying to Brocks is that not every thread on this forum has to be hijacked by his Tiger Woods worshiping.

I have a ton of respect for Tiger, but one of the reasons I started this thread is that I think too much attention is paid to Woods and not enough to other quality golfers with impressive results who will not make the Hall of Fame...I always find it comical when someone says a particular player is not that good when the reality is that the poster could get a shot a hole and still lose to the guy.

Right now I'd get 18 strokes? I hate to back track on my aforementioned respect for Weir's career, but I'll take my chances with a stroke a hole.

post #24 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

Right now I'd get 18 strokes? I hate to back track on my aforementioned respect for Weir's career, but I'll take my chances with a stroke a hole.


Same here.  Id take a stroke a hole against Weir.

post #25 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

Right now I'd get 18 strokes? I hate to back track on my aforementioned respect for Weir's career, but I'll take my chances with a stroke a hole.

I wasn`t directing the comment at you as I didn`t think that you slammed Weir for being not THAT good even in his prime.  In any case, we all know he is not playing up to PGA Tour standards right now- the stroke a hole comment was meant for the time period when Weir was not THAT good.  With that said, it looks to me that Weir has likely played to a +2 or +3 handicap this year on Tour.  My guess is that a lot of 10 handicaps would have trouble breaking 90 on the courses he has been playing, so a shot a hole might be very competitive now for a good 10 capper who doesn`t choke.

post #26 of 44

I am afraid he has just lost his mojo and won't be back as a regular on the PGA Tour. I think he might make a blip on the Senior Tour because he always seemed to be in good shape and shorter players (Corey Pavin) have found a nice home there. 

post #27 of 44

The PGA Tour site has an interview with Weir prior to the Canadian Open http://www.pgatour.com/golfers/010423/mike-weir/. He says tendonitis in his arm is a lingering problem, but gave no medical specifics.

 

Weir says the key to a comeback is being able physically to hit a lot of balls to get his swing and muscles back into shape. Before one Thursday round, he only hit 20 full shots.

 

He only made 2 of 15 cuts in 2011, and none of 12 this year. He says he's shooting for 2013, but how does he do it? Will he do Q-school, or will his past championships and sponsor exemptions get him into enough PGA Tour events to win some money?

post #28 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WUTiger View Post

 

He only made 2 of 15 cuts in 2011, and none of 12 this year. He says he's shooting for 2013, but how does he do it? Will he do Q-school, or will his past championships and sponsor exemptions get him into enough PGA Tour events to win some money?

I am not 100% sure, but he might still have his top 50 all-time money list exemption (and then top 25 all-time if he is still there) to use which gets him full time status on tour.  I say this based on the fact that he won 2.3 M in 2009 which gave him full status in 2010 where he won 500+ K, so hi didn`t use this until 2011 at the earliest (and likely hasn`t used it at all).  

 

Just double checked and he was 151st on the money list in 2010 which gives you no status, so I am not sure exactly what he did for 2011, but  http://www.pgatour.com/golfers/010423/mike-weir/media-guide/#uber) says he started the year on a Major Medical Extension.  Later it says he had a Non-Exempt Major Medical Extension that ran out after his 3rd event this year (but it might have run out in 2011 as sometimes the PGA Tour site doesn`t update.  

 

I think the Past Champions category ranks players at the start of the year based on what they won the previous year and then reshuffles several times, so if you are not making any $, you get into fewer and fewer tournys this route (although the 2nd field/opposite events let a lot of Past Champions in).  Of course, as a past Champion, he will always get into the Masters until his play completely falls off the charts and he declines (or is asked to decline) the invitation.

 

There are 5 active players within 1.4 M of him on the all time $ list, Jerry Kelly and Charles Howell are 3+ M away and then some others like Kuchar and Mahon who are within about $6 M.  Point is, he has to use his top 50 exemption first before being able to use the top 25.  This means that if he waits too long to pull the trigger on the top 50, he may never get to use the top 25 as he could find himself 26+ within a few years.  My guess is that if he is at all happy with his game to start 2013, he will use one of his all time $ list exemptions then.

 

Of course, getting a card via Q School is an option for the last time this year and would potentially save an all time $ list exemption for a later year.  Q School cards have a lower (#25 http://www.pgatour.com/r/player_exemptions/) exempt ranking than all time $ (#10), so that might also be a consideration, but I would think he would give Q school a shot to keep his options open and to get in some additional competitive play going into 2013. 

post #29 of 44

I was at one of the practice rounds at the Canadian Open this year and spend 20 minutes or so watching Mike on the range.  He was hitting the ball crisp and was working VERY hard on his driver.

 

He was doing a drill with the driver where he would tee up 3 balls in a row, hit the first two only with a quarter swing and then proceed with a full swing on the last ball.  Even though he was hitting the ball well, Mike seemed very mechanical with every move he was making on the range which tells me that his mind is a little clouded.  Maybe due to the fact that he has worked with various people / instructors over the last several years who have tried to fix him.

 

Nevertheless, I think the future for Mike isn't to encouraging.  For me, he just isn't hitting the ball off of the tee long enough to be able to keep up with everyone else on the tour which puts a huge amount of strain on his iron game.

post #30 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

Right now I'd get 18 strokes? I hate to back track on my aforementioned respect for Weir's career, but I'll take my chances with a stroke a hole.

I wasn`t directing the comment at you as I didn`t think that you slammed Weir for being not THAT good even in his prime.  In any case, we all know he is not playing up to PGA Tour standards right now- the stroke a hole comment was meant for the time period when Weir was not THAT good.  With that said, it looks to me that Weir has likely played to a +2 or +3 handicap this year on Tour.  My guess is that a lot of 10 handicaps would have trouble breaking 90 on the courses he has been playing, so a shot a hole might be very competitive now for a good 10 capper who doesn`t choke.

Like I said - I'd take my chances.

post #31 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith View Post

I was at one of the practice rounds at the Canadian Open this year and spend 20 minutes or so watching Mike on the range.  He was hitting the ball crisp and was working VERY hard on his driver.

 

He was doing a drill with the driver where he would tee up 3 balls in a row, hit the first two only with a quarter swing and then proceed with a full swing on the last ball.  Even though he was hitting the ball well, Mike seemed very mechanical with every move he was making on the range which tells me that his mind is a little clouded.  Maybe due to the fact that he has worked with various people / instructors over the last several years who have tried to fix him.

 

Nevertheless, I think the future for Mike isn't to encouraging.  For me, he just isn't hitting the ball off of the tee long enough to be able to keep up with everyone else on the tour which puts a huge amount of strain on his iron game.

Interesting.  I agree that as a shorter hitter by Tour standards (I think the longest he has averaged is "only" 289 with shorter distances in recent years), which means that all parts of his game have to be clicking or else he will continue to struggle.  

 

Corey Pavin is an interesting reference point- he struggled for a while in his late 30s with 22 missed cuts and only about 265 K of earnings over a two year period (outside the top 150 both years), then came back to win a tournament at age 46 and played some good golf on both tours at age 50.  I`d be shocked if Weir came back and won another major or made it back into the top 10, but I do think he has a chance to find his game and make it back into the top 125 if he is able to stay healthy and get comfortable with a golf swing with which he can consistently find fairways.    Even when Pavin struggled in 97 & 98, he hit close to 70% of the fairways, while Weir has only been about 40% the last two years.  Makes you understand why he has been working so much on the driver.

post #32 of 44

He is exempt on the European Tour through 2015 that might be an option
 

post #33 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

Right now I'd get 18 strokes? I hate to back track on my aforementioned respect for Weir's career, but I'll take my chances with a stroke a hole.

I wasn`t directing the comment at you as I didn`t think that you slammed Weir for being not THAT good even in his prime.  In any case, we all know he is not playing up to PGA Tour standards right now- the stroke a hole comment was meant for the time period when Weir was not THAT good.  With that said, it looks to me that Weir has likely played to a +2 or +3 handicap this year on Tour.  My guess is that a lot of 10 handicaps would have trouble breaking 90 on the courses he has been playing, so a shot a hole might be very competitive now for a good 10 capper who doesn`t choke.

Like I said - I'd take my chances.

I was thinking more about this - maybe I'd need more than 18 on a Tour course in spite of his distance disadvantage. I mean, like you said, there's always the choke factor.

post #34 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchepp View Post

I am afraid he has just lost his mojo and won't be back as a regular on the PGA Tour. I think he might make a blip on the Senior Tour because he always seemed to be in good shape and shorter players (Corey Pavin) have found a nice home there. 

 

He still has two full year exemptions he can use for his placing on the all time money list, so he can go back any time he wants. But why waste them before he is healthy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WUTiger View Post

The PGA Tour site has an interview with Weir prior to the Canadian Open http://www.pgatour.com/golfers/010423/mike-weir/. He says tendonitis in his arm is a lingering problem, but gave no medical specifics.

 

Weir says the key to a comeback is being able physically to hit a lot of balls to get his swing and muscles back into shape. Before one Thursday round, he only hit 20 full shots.

 

He only made 2 of 15 cuts in 2011, and none of 12 this year. He says he's shooting for 2013, but how does he do it? Will he do Q-school, or will his past championships and sponsor exemptions get him into enough PGA Tour events to win some money?

 

He is suffering from severe tendonitis in his elbow, and it is just lately that the pain has been subsiding and he is able to practice a bit more. I saw him in May, and overheard him telling a club pro there that he thinks if he doesnt overdo it this summer, he should be ready to train hard this winter in prep for next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by killakane604 View Post

He is exempt on the European Tour through 2015 that might be an option
 

 

As I said, he can choose any two years he wants with full exemption because of his top 25 on the money list. He has no reason to go to the Euro tour.

post #35 of 44

Except some of the best players in the world are on that tour.
 

post #36 of 44

that guy WAS good ...

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