Women - Advice about clubs

I want to eventually graduate out of my starter set (Lady Hagen from Dick's) and "invest" in a nice set that I get fitted for. I'm excited for an upcoming demo day because I have appointments with Ping, Cobra, Callaway and TaylorMade.

Just wondering about the ladies out there - do you play with clubs that are specifically for women or play "men's" clubs with graphite/ladies flex shafts? Is there a difference?

I'm the husband of a female golfer, so here's some things to consider:

Stina Steinberg of Golf Digest on buying clubs:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-digest-woman/blogs/golf-digest-woman/2012/05/smart-shopping-a-womans-step-b.html

Golfsmith on clubs for women:

http://golftips.golfsmith.com/mens-golf-clubs-vs-womens-golf-clubs-2427.html

Club designer Ralph Maltby on why women need their own clubs (he's a little fast paced, but has a lot of good info). Go inside site to get video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KSxr-LwwT8

An  Olympian female shotputer and grandma would not "fit" women's clubs.  There is no such thing as "women's" clubs. There is only a category of rack merchandise that it peddled as women's clubs.

Choose a club head that you like. There is very likely no difference in the heads but they often have pretty women colors to make you think they are specifically made for women.

Shafts for women are basically meaningless as well Each manufacturer has differences as there is no precise standard.

Here is what I would do. Try various shafts with demo, begged, borrowed etc to see if you can tell a difference. You may like or dislike these feelings.  The trimming of the tip affects the flex as well. Your swing speed and level of aggression is a very important shaft fitting factor.

If the fitter rattles off a cookie cutter formula demand that it be reviewed.

The resulting "FIT" set may have nothing at all on them that says women. It may be made entirely of men's parts.

I first started out playing ladies clubs and the only deficiency was they were too short. (I'm male)

---------------------------------------------------------

Cut and paste from

http://www.loomiscustomgolf.com/pdf/12MythsBook.pdf

12 Myths That
Could Wreck
Your Golf Game
Excerpts from
The Search
for the
Perfect Golf Club

Tom Wishon
with Tom Grundner

Myth 7
-----------------------------------------------------
Women’s clubs are designed for women.
It pains me to say this, but, by and large, the women get a raw deal when it
comes to golf equipment. Male golfers get to choose from several different head
one model of shaft in one length.
If you applied the golf industry’s approach to equipment selection for women 20
to the clothing industry, here’s what you would see in your local department
store. You would walk through the men’s department and see the usual array
of sizes and styles from small to XXX-large, but when you get to the women’s
department, you would see clothing offered in only two or three styles and only
in size small.
The same thing is true in the “senior golfer” department. The customer would
only see limited styles and “one size” from which to meet their clothing needs.
With  regard  to  women . . . have  you  ever  seen  a  golf  club  marketed  to  “senior
women”? Right. Like senior women don’t play golf?
In the average retail golf store, the regular men’s clubs account for close to
90 percent of all the clubs in the store. Lofts on drivers are stocked from 8 to 12
clubs, however, drivers are usually stocked in a 12- or 13-degree loft, lengths
are an inch shorter than the corresponding men’s model; and shafts are offered
The problem is that the vast majority of “average” female golfers need drivers with more loft than what is offered, shorter lengths for all the woods, a set
than any men’s shaft.
But it gets worse.
Most people assume that a women’s golf clubhead is based on the men’s, but
represents a fresh design and a unique casting. Sometimes that is true, but it is
weight, and design features are exactly the same. They are simply men’s clubs
that are marketed to women.
Then we have the shafts themselves. Earlier we discussed the problem of
Regarding women’s shafts, we have to amend that conclusion. With the L-
of the shafts they tested was out of sequence compared to the other A, R, S, and
To be fair, a few shaft companies have recently come out with what they call
differences-in-female-golfers’-swing-speeds-just-like-there-are-with-men-so-
to be. If it is, it’ll be a breakthrough.
The point here is that there are women, senior, and even some junior golfers
in men’s clubs. And there are some men who can and should be playing with
Just because someone put pink, taupe, or mauve paint on their golf club-
golf clubs know no gender restrictions. They only know that they are matched
to exactly how their owner swings.
For more information on this topic, refer to The Search for the Perfect Golf
Club: “How About a Break?” (pg. 182) and “What Are These Clubs Anyway?” (pg. 180).

Sorry JR, but time has overtaken Myth #7, extracted from Tom W's book written in 2005. Really, some real customization for women came as early as 1989. Square Two not only made women's clubs, but came up with the Petite line for women 5-foot-2 and shorter. These clubs had shafts trimmed a half-inch shorter than average for women, and had flatter lie angles (since less tall women have a very short wrist-to-floor measurement.) My wife still has her set.

You are really behind the times on this. About the time Tom W published his book, Callaway went "back to the drawing board" on the design of women's clubs. The two-year research project came up with several key points, such as: The average woman needs more clubhead loft, shorter shafts, and more flexible shafts to help get the ball up. These points and others are covered in a 2008 WSJ article by Tim Carroll:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121372702050581575.html

Club designer Ralph Maltby (video earlier in thread) talks about similar things. At GolfWorks, he developed the LTech club line and companion LTech shafts with Ladies and Ladies Extra Loft flexes.

JR, I'll grant you that golfdom has no standards as to what a Stiff or Regular flex shaft is (other than the CPM scale which can be used to compare different models of shaft on oscillation patterns). So, golfers need to make sure they try different shaft combinations on the launch monitor - and outdoors - to get the fit they need.

But, that does not justify you saying that there are no "women's clubs." You just have to find them.

I think I will go with what this guy says. No brainer.

Tom Wishon is a golf club designer and researcher. Tom Wishon is a former member of the PGA of America who chose to pursue a career in golf equipment design and clubfitting research. While he has been offered the chance to head up golf club design for some of the largest golf club companies in the world, he has chosen to remain within the lesser known segment of the golf equipment industry that focuses on fitting golfers one at a time and building their golf clubs from high quality clubhead, shaft and grip component designs. During his career he has designed more original golf clubhead models than any other person in the 500 year history of the game. He is also author of two best-selling consumer-oriented books, The Search for the Perfect Golf Club and The Search for the Perfect Driver.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Wishon

JR's details on Wishon are lifted from TW's Wikipedia page. The Wiki page itself asks for some third-party sources on TW, and bears this caution:

This article relies on references to primary sources or sources affiliated with the subject . Please  add citations from reliable and independent sources . (January 2008)

Now, I don't wish to demean TW, as he has delivered a number of solid clubhead designs and has useful comments to make on customizing clubs to the individual golfer. It is a stretch, however, to say that major clubmakers offer nothing to the everyday golfer. It just takes a little extra work to sift through the marketing hype and see what a given club + shaft combo offers you.

John R, do you have any real expertise in clubfitting, or are you just an overzealous fan of TW?

(I am reluctant to continue this discussion without input from TW himself.)

JR appears to be an overzealous fan of google, believes  blindly in his experts without having real experience with them, and anyone who discusses real life experience and challenges his experts is easily dismissed with an LOL.

I haven't seen him discuss his experience. He picks an expert and serves it up as the absolute truth.

Better than the comedy club.  Rolling on the floor laughing my head off. Sometimes ya just gotta love the snipes.

The main value in these snipes is to pay attention to who they are sniping.  The snipes reveal who is worth paying attention too. For example a reader of the forum should  immediately find everything that Tom Wishon has ever published and study it.  The other value snipes offer is to pay attention to who these snipes are flocking with. They are the ones you can pass over with out reading. Unless looking for a laugh.

"(I am reluctant to continue this discussion without input from TW himself.)"

Tom Wishon would take one look at the snipe WUTiger  and start with a chuckle, get a little more animated and then finish with a full belly laugh.

WUTiger has 3030 snipes and never wrong on any of the 3030.  WUTiger is never wrong and will fabricate stuff to prove it   I particularly like the fabricated claim and invention "It is a stretch, however, to say that major clubmakers offer nothing to the everyday golfer"   Snipes like WUTiger would have the time of their life by locking themselves in a room so they could invent claims such as the one above and  wax all  eloquent and profound disputing the validity of the invented claim. They could repeat the process endlessly and never run out of entertainment. They would never have to spend a dime at Disneyland, all they have to do is argue with themselves over their own invented claims.

I also love this one

"He picks an expert and serves it up as the absolute truth."

DUH! Yeah I think I would call upon an expert instead of a snipe on a forum. Imagine that,  paying attention to an expert. Who would ever thunk to do something so dumb.

I usually ignore snipes but these two have made me chuckle.  Better than the comedy club. Sometimes ya just gotta love the snipes.

Just a comment here, I had bought a set of Wilson Ci9 irons (FYI - they are 'tweeners') for my son in case he couldn't hit my hand-me-down MacGregor forged MT set, but he hits them fine, so they just sat in the box for a while. I told my wife, who is two years into playing, I was going to look around for a new set of 'real' irons to replace her boxed starter set, and she said "What's wrong with those (the Ci9s)?" I tried to tell her they were too long and too heavy and the shaft was too stiff (R flex), but she insisted on taking them to the range, and guess what (by now you know what the outcome is), she smacks those puppies!

She is 5'6, and pretty strong (she's very active). She just chokes up on the shaft about 2", and away she goes. She hits them about 20% longer than her girl's clubs. I guess I might get them re-shafted in time, but for now they work pretty good.

And, I'm not saying that this would work for all women, or that a more fitted set would allow her to reach a higher level, but, again, for now they are working.

So you're a pompous ass, too?

Laughing Out Loud.

Lots of experts in golf - what you don't know, possibly because your ego gets in your way, is that not everything these experts say, works, and some communicate poorly. You can take everything they say and bottle it as the truth - but it is their truth - and their truth may not work for you. Some of these experts are great at telling people what is wrong with a swing, but they are terrible at offering solutions, or their solutions don't work. Or maybe their books are outdated, but you're still linking to it as some absolute authority - and if someone tells you a story or offers an argument that is outdated - you tend to be an ass.

I mean, that's okay, it doesn't offend.

It's your issue and your ignorance.

You give nothing but some quotes or links - why not tell us what you used, and whether it worked for you, and why it did not work?

Then you might offer something valuable. Until then, you offer bleah.