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Ben Hogan foot placement - Page 2

post #19 of 30

Yes it is. The maximum kinetic energy or "power" is released at impact, but as far as the speed of the club is concerned, the max is reached after impact. Same with the ball. It's going faster when it's 20 feet away than when it was 5 feet away. Acceleration and energy are not the same thing. Hence the proper swing creates a follow through than jerks you up to the top and pulls all the way on to your left side. That happens as a result of the acceleration created by the release. One of the strange things about golf that a lot of people don't understand. Hogan was the first one to bring this to light. Dude had an IQ that rivaled his golf swing.

post #20 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 

Is that possible?

 

Possible? I guess, theoretically.

 

At all reasonable to expect to see this in any top players (or, for that matter, any player at all, ever): no. Not at all. Zero chance. Every graph ever done shows peak speeds of things prior to impact, and the clubhead itself slows down tremendously upon impact with the ball.

 

(One hardly-even-an-exception: really poor putters who are trying to "accelerate" through impact can reach peak speeds higher after impact than before. But we're not talking about putting…).

 

Edit: wait, I just caught this:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesongarnett2 View Post
 

Yes it is. The maximum kinetic energy or "power" is released at impact, but as far as the speed of the club is concerned, the max is reached after impact. Same with the ball. It's going faster when it's 20 feet away than when it was 5 feet away. Acceleration and energy are not the same thing. Hence the proper swing creates a follow through than jerks you up to the top and pulls all the way on to your left side. That happens as a result of the acceleration created by the release. One of the strange things about golf that a lot of people don't understand. Hogan was the first one to bring this to light. Dude had an IQ that rivaled his golf swing.

 

Uhm, no. Absolutely no.

 

(One hardly-even-an-exception: unless you're hitting close to straight downward somehow, and the ball can literally be further accelerated by gravity.)

post #21 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesongarnett2 View Post

Same with the ball. It's going faster when it's 20 feet away than when it was 5 feet away.

Am I brainfarting here, or is that just explicitly, demonstrably false?

If the ball is faster 20 feet away and 5 feet away, there would have to be forces in the positive direction to provide that acceleration. Gravity (down) and lift (up) aren't really affecting that, and friction is opposing motion. What am I missing besides Kool Aid?

EDIT: Erik beat me to it as I was trying to confirm my own sanity.
post #22 of 30

Lol... okay. I'm talking about what Hogan was doing, and what I'm feeling when I do this correctly. And yes, sir, the ball does accelerate. Things go from zero to fast by accelerating.

 

I will revise - the club FEELS like it's going the fastest after the release. I haven't gotten the instruments out to check it. I apologize, I'm trying to explain the sensation of what I'm feeling when I started swinging the club properly, and noticed that it looked very, very similar to Hogans. I'm not here to prove anything. It's strange, but it's what's becoming clear to me.

 

As far as the club speed reaching it's max after impact, I'll refer you to Hogan on that one. If you want to argue with him, go for it.

 

I personally think the modern golf swings on tour are getting worse and worse. All about competing forces to hit it farther and farther. There's only so much of that a guy really needs. I'm fine with 280 off the tee and a 7 iron going 160. Especially when I know where it's going to land.

 

Again - videos will be up tomorrow. I can talk about it all day, but when you see what I'm doing, people will have a lot less to argue with.

post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesongarnett2 View Post
 

And yes, sir, the ball does accelerate. Things go from zero to fast by accelerating.

 

Only while the ball is on the clubface. After that, it's constantly decelerating (horizontal motion - you could hit a flop shot that accelerates at the tail end of its flight because it's coming down at a steep angle, but that's also not what we're talking about).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesongarnett2 View Post
 

I will revise - the club FEELS like it's going the fastest after the release.

 

:doh:

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesongarnett2 View Post
 

As far as the club speed reaching it's max after impact, I'll refer you to Hogan on that one. If you want to argue with him, go for it.

 

He's wrong. There's no need to argue - it's a well accepted fact. Plus, you know, Hogan is dead, so I don't see him putting up much of a fight.

 

I haven't read many of the posts in this thread, but what does the ball or clubhead magically accelerating after they separate have to do with "Ben Hogan foot placement"?

post #24 of 30

Lol Honestly it's a super old thread that kind of took on a life of its own.

 

The foot position thing - I chimed in because I noticed something he was doing in an old video. I was literally hitting the ball the worst I'd ever hit it, hated the game. I tried this foot deal and it absolutely transformed the way I hit the ball. When I looked at it on video, all of a sudden my s**T swing looked strangely similar to Hogan's. No not exactly the same, but more importantly I wasn't attempting to emulate it in any way other than the lower body set up and the mental approach I thought he might have been taking, and it was more like "Whoa.. umm... okay really all of a sudden my swing looks like THAT?" So I was just letting some fellow golfers know that's what I experienced.

 

Let's agree on this one, maybe this is a better visual for any one who cares to read through our little spat - the HANDS reach max speed after they pass the ball. To me, personally, the club feels as though it reaches max speed just after the release/impact. After I started feeling this, I later read that Hogan described it the same way. But ya, he is dead. That is correct.

 

Honestly the math of what's happening in a golf swing is something people have been arguing about for years and will continue to, but for me, that's absolutely what it feels like. If someone watches me hit the ball and says "teach me", then that's part of what I explain to them. It feels like the club jumps from impact straight up to the follow through and carries me with it. First time I did it, I had absolutely NO clue what it would look like, because it felt like I was up to the follow through at the same time I hit the ball. I went to the video, and voila, there it was. No way I could ever mimmick Hogan's swing characteristics, it's just a result I get from doing it a certain way.

 

As far as ball speed, it's moving fast. The whole time. Really F******G fast.

 

Oh, and it's faster with a driver than with a wedge, I think.

 

NOBEL PRIZE WINNER

post #25 of 30

Oh and just for fun I'll post a video of me hitting balls with a 9 iron, where you can clearly see a ball take off on the target line, and if you hit pause during my follow though, you can clearly see another ball that appears to still be stuck to the club face. Lol. And then you can watch the next 40 swings or so where the exact same thing happens.

 

Who the hell knows what's possible. It's golf man. Probably aliens sitting up in space somewhere saying, "God, watching humans try to figure this out is HILAAAARIOUS."

 

This is the last thing I'll say - Watch a full speed video of Hogan... REALLY watch. Now, tell me anyone's ever done what he was doing. Dude was an absolute freak of nature. To suggest that he might have been taking a radically different perceptive approach to the golf swing, maybe even contradicting some of the accepted physics of it? I don't think it's that much of a stretch.

post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesongarnett2 View Post
 

Oh and just for fun I'll post a video of me hitting balls with a 9 iron, where you can clearly see a ball take off on the target line, and if you hit pause during my follow though, you can clearly see another ball that appears to still be stuck to the club face. Lol. And then you can watch the next 40 swings or so where the exact same thing happens.

Get a better camera.

post #27 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesongarnett2 View Post

Let's agree on this one, maybe this is a better visual for any one who cares to read through our little spat - the HANDS reach max speed after they pass the ball.

Also wrong. The hands reach peak speed prior to impact.

It would be a waste of energy to accelerate anything after impact.

Feel ain't real. I think by and large we aren't interested in your feels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesongarnett2 View Post

Oh and just for fun I'll post a video of me hitting balls with a 9 iron, where you can clearly see a ball take off on the target line, and if you hit pause during my follow though, you can clearly see another ball that appears to still be stuck to the club face. Lol. And then you can watch the next 40 swings or so where the exact same thing happens.

Who the hell knows what's possible. It's golf man. Probably aliens sitting up in space somewhere saying, "God, watching humans try to figure this out is HILAAAARIOUS."

Your video is interlaced you're seeing two half frames or fields (I forget which is which).

Sorry. No aliens required. Easily explained.
post #28 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesongarnett2 View Post
 

Oh and just for fun I'll post a video of me hitting balls with a 9 iron, where you can clearly see a ball take off on the target line, and if you hit pause during my follow though, you can clearly see another ball that appears to still be stuck to the club face. Lol. And then you can watch the next 40 swings or so where the exact same thing happens.

Hey all, I just joined the forum after looking up hogan's foot position in relation to the ball.

 

I've been experimenting w opening my stance and getting my toes pointing more to the target side (left toe more so than the right). I started consciously making my left hip clear WAY before my hands and shoulders and I started to get that feeling jamesongarnett2 is talking about, I think. Really feels like the the speed and the release happen a few feet past the ball and left. My hands feel like there almost shoulder high on my follow through by the time I realize I've hit the ball!

 

I've only been trying this on two range sessions and will work on it today. Along with foot/ball position and early hip clearing, I focused on getting the back of my left hand to point more toward the sky, or "laying off the club" while I bring the butt of the club into the right side of my knee cap. The way to describe it is that it feels like Furyk's swing prior to impact. I feel like my whole body except for my head is facing the target, my right shoulder, hands, right hip and elbow are stacked while the club shaft is still behind me. Been hitting lower trajectory straight-slight fade shots and have to change foot/ball position to get a draw.

 

jamesongarnett2- I would really like to see video of your swing to compare. I haven't videod my swing for more than a year since I've gone much flatter but now maybe a good time see the differences.

post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesongarnett2 View Post

Who the hell knows what's possible. It's golf man. Probably aliens sitting up in space somewhere saying, "God, watching humans try to figure this out is HILAAAARIOUS.".

The golf swing is a physical action that has a start and finish, it also follows the rules of physics without any deviations.. Having said I find your post disturbing somewhat and I really suggest you seek medical attention ASAP. No really but did you really just say aliens?

I know this is OT but it had to be said..
post #30 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post

I know this is OT but it had to be said..

 

It was also almost a month ago, so… :)

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