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A perfect round, or sandbagging?

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 

This made the local news yesterday. From http://www.sacbee.com/2012/08/22/4746690/working-the-honor-systemgolf-counts.html:

 

Quote:

In a regional qualifier for the Audi Quattro Cup, a worldwide handicap tournament whose regional winners earn an expenses-paid trip to the national final [at Pebble Beach], Granno and Pappas played lights out. In the "selected drives" format in which each player tees off, and then alternate hitting shots after the preferred drive is selected until the hole is completed, they posted a 1-over-par 73.

 

Taking their handicaps into consideration and the Stableford scoring, that translated to 45 points. That total would have won, or been within a point of winning, almost every other qualifier in the country.

 

"We played phenomenally well," Pappas said.

 

They finished second at Catta Verdera. A distant second.

 

Dave Featherstone and John Paul Vandersluys shot an 11-under 61. Taking their handicaps at the time – a 6.5 for Featherstone and a 14.4 for Vandersluys – into consideration and the Stableford scoring, that translated to 58 points.

 

58 points in Stableford scoring is 22-under. That's net eagles on all 4 par 5s and net birdies on the 3s and 4s. A perfect (net) round.

 

It gets better:

 

Quote:

Turns out, the same pair also won last year's Catta Verdera Quattro Cup qualifying trip – to Whistling Straits in Wisconsin. Featherstone and Vandersluys also won last year's local qualifier for the ESPN National Golf Challenge, which provided a trip to Las Vegas.

...

While winning three of the most lucrative prizes available to area handicap golfers in the past year seems improbable in competitions designed to make all teams equal, Featherstone said the trips are not a particularly big incentive.

 

"I play Pebble all the time," he said. "It's not that big of a deal with me. I just play golf and write the scores down..."

 

Hmm, what did the twosome playing with Featherstone and Vandersluys have to say about their amazing play?

 

Quote:
As for the twosome who played alongside Featherstone and Vandersluys and were responsible for verifying the accuracy of their score, Catta Verdera member Brad Beerbohm said, "I have no comment about that round," while Jacob Brawner does not have an established handicap, at least not with the NCGA, even though Quattro Cup rules state that all competitors must.

 

So one "no comment", and one apparently not qualified to comment because he doesn't have an established handicap? (Which was contrary to the rules of the competition.)

 

Interesting. There are some reader comments in that article from folks who were there playing in the tournament that are rather interesting as well.

post #2 of 37

Uhm, I'm going with "both groups sandbagged."

 

Those kinds of tournaments are rife with sandbagging.

post #3 of 37

Some tournaments aren't worth entering in.  Most of these tournaments are definitely not worth it.

 

Sounds like sandbagging to me.  It could happen once, but three times.

post #4 of 37

Punishment for sandbagging should be death.  After they hang the first one, we'll see who attempts it again.

post #5 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Uhm, I'm going with "both groups sandbagged."

 

Same here.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VMAN View Post

Some tournaments aren't worth entering in.  Most of these tournaments are definitely not worth it.

 

Unless you're a professional sandbagger I guess.  That's really what a lot of these tournaments boil down to  - not who's the best golfer, but who's the best at gaming the system.

post #6 of 37

I hope my next round is my  "+2 Round"   but somehow I always shoot pretty close to my handicap.....

 

I guess if those guys didn't make a stink it wouldn't have gained any traction,  but it's funny that once it all comes out, you find out that they only turn in a dozen scores in an entire year  (where golf can be played year-round)  despite belonging to a club,  yet still carry a single-digit handicap.

 

Looks like 4 scratch golfers sandbagging,  and two did it better than the other two.

post #7 of 37

2 9 handicappers shooting a 73 in the alternating driver format (that has to be worth 4 or 5  strokes right? ) seems somewhat plausible.  Shooting a 61 for an 6.5 and 14.4 should getting you disqualified. Reading the full article the 14.4 was a 8.9 earlier in the year. Thats a heck of a lot of strokes to go up.

 

In their defense the course they said the course was under 6000 yards. That is probably like a par 69 and if you have a couple of good drivers, you are going to be hitting short wedges into every hole that you don't drive the green on.  

 

But doing 3 times in a row makes it a no way in hell type thing.

 

Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Uhm, I'm going with "both groups sandbagged."

 

Those kinds of tournaments are rife with sandbagging.

post #8 of 37

I hate scrambles.  They're great for work events: organizational day, in conjunction with a conference, the annual local bar association charity tournament, etc., so that folks who don't really play can get in on the fun.  But why anyone would enter an organized prize-money scramble competition is beyond me.  Scramble golf isn't even that fun, and winning is rarely based on who plays the best golf.

post #9 of 37

Once could happen. Three times? No. Did they shoot the score? Sure. But what inflated handicaps. I don't care if the course was playing 6400 yards "short."

 

I shot 75 as a 25 handicap -- ONCE. It can happen. ONCE. I shot 95 the second round on the same day and same course. I was at an event once where a guy shattered his personal best, won a car with a hole in one, and won a drawing for a trip to Mexico in one night. It happens. 

 

"I play Pebble all the time" is a heck of an argument for why you couldn't possibly have cheated to win three times.

post #10 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by x129 View Post

...In their defense the course they said the course was under 6000 yards...

 

FWIW, it's possible the reporter got that wrong. One of the reader comments is claiming it was actually 6400. Still not terribly long of course...

post #11 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyredcab View Post

Once could happen. Three times? No. Did they shoot the score? Sure. But what inflated handicaps. I don't care if the course was playing 6400 yards "short."

 

I shot 75 as a 25 handicap -- ONCE. It can happen. ONCE. I shot 95 the second round on the same day and same course. I was at an event once where a guy shattered his personal best, won a car with a hole in one, and won a drawing for a trip to Mexico in one night. It happens. 

 

"I play Pebble all the time" is a heck of an argument for why you couldn't possibly have cheated to win three times.

Yeah I am with you here.  If I had played Pebble a bunch of times it wouldn't mean I'd like to win another trip out there..       Oh shucks, fellas, I've been to Pebble Beach quite a few times so need for me to win an all expense paid trip out there again!

post #12 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-troop View Post

I hate scrambles.  They're great for work events: organizational day, in conjunction with a conference, the annual local bar association charity tournament, etc., so that folks who don't really play can get in on the fun.  But why anyone would enter an organized prize-money scramble competition is beyond me.  Scramble golf isn't even that fun, and winning is rarely based on who plays the best golf.

 

Okay, but this wasn't a scramble.

post #13 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by x129 View Post

2 9 handicappers shooting a 73 in the alternating driver format (that has to be worth 4 or 5  strokes right? ) seems somewhat plausible...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by k-troop View Post

I hate scrambles. 

 

Just to clarify, it was a best drive, then alternate shot format. So kind of a semi-scramble. But yeah, taking the best drive of the two would be worth a few shots.

post #14 of 37
Sandbaggers. No doubt. I will say, many of the governing bodies are getting better at catching these guys, but they still exist.
post #15 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchepp View Post

Sandbaggers. No doubt. I will say, many of the governing bodies are getting better at catching these guys, but they still exist.

 

 

My buddy played a 28 index in league play on Wednesday who shot a 37. Just like he shot last week. The guys who run my league are afraid to call guys out, but I'm not. I haven't made any friends in the sandbagger posse (there are about a dozen of them - both genders) but at least you know where you stand with them. All you have to do is shoot the course record and you have a chance at a single point. Easy peasy. My membership and league fees will be spent elsewhere in 2013.

 

Anyway, I'm probably not the only one who had to read the article a couple times to confirm the 61 wasn't the net score and that the event wasn't a full on scramble.

post #16 of 37

Maybe they should give the prize to the 3rd place winner, this way having an overly excellent score doesn't guarantee a win. The format is a joke so why not the award position...

post #17 of 37

Don't forget that the one guy is one of the best putters in CA.  Ignoring their handicaps, how often do you think 2 scratch golfers would go out and shoot a 61 in this format? Maybe picking the drives is a bigger advantage than I think but I have to imagine that is a 1 in 100 type day. Did they cheat on the course in addition to their handicaps? 

 

If you have a weekly league, only using scores from it works out ok (granted the first couple weeks are rough). These type of scrambles with pretty much self reported handicaps and big prizes are a joke. Unless you start disqualifing all the guys with 1 in 10k rounds, it is all about who cheats the most. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

Anyway, I'm probably not the only one who had to read the article a couple times to confirm the 61 wasn't the net score and that the event wasn't a full on scramble.

post #18 of 37

cross post... never mind

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