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2012 NFL Season - Page 14

post #235 of 288

With all the talk of "can a running QB win it all etc......Cant the same question be asked of "Game Manager" type QB's? Of all the SB winning QB's only one was a game manager

 

Super Bowl XXXV - Trent Dilfer
 

 

The rest were pretty darn elite right? The 49ers are a prime example of the "shift" that Im seeing as Alex Smith was benched for Colin Kaepernick

 

And we still have yet to define what a running QB is. I said Steve Young, but others dont agree. John Elway had only 40 less career rushing yards than Donovan Mcnabb but Im sure he dosen't qualify either right?

post #236 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

I don't agree with this.  If anything, the running QB is retro.  Cam Newton broke the rush TD record for a QB last year breaking Steve Grogan's record from 1976.  Many QBs ran back then.  The QB draw was a common play.  The Pocket passer and evolution of the passing game is a later development.

Here is something to consider...  A decade ago... QB's barely even ran the 40 at the combine.  Now it is becoming common practice that QB's run, bench, vertical and broad jump.  Why? Personally, I think guys are just better all around athletes.  Just like in golf - guys are working out more - the same can be said for any major sport.  It is a year long commitment now in the gym.  And all have nutrition plans and supplements that they digest to help them recover faster and gain muscle and strength.

 

Look at the 2012 NFL combine results for QB's... It used to be common that if a guy ran a sub 5.0 in the 40yd dash, he was a pretty quick QB.  Not so much today... That would be considered slow.

 

 

 

2012 NFL Combine Results: Quarterbacks

Name School 40-Yard
Dash
Bench
press
Vertical
jump
20-yard
shuttle
60-yard
shuttle
Broad
jump
Robert Griffin Baylor 4.41   39.0     10'0
Russell Wilson Wisconsin 4.55   34.0 4.09 6.97 9'10
Jordan Jefferson Louisiana State 4.65 14 36.5 4.06 6.81 9'8
Andrew Luck Stanford 4.67   36.0 4.28 6.80 10'4
Aaron Corp Richmond 4.72   31.5 4.30 7.03 8'10
Jacory Harris Miami 4.72   37.0 4.40 7.10 9'5
Austin Davis Southern Miss 4.76   31.0 4.11 6.73 9'1
Chandler Harnish Northern Illinois 4.76   32.5 4.15 6.78 9'4
Darron Thomas Oregon 4.80 14 36.0 4.28 7.17 10'1
Case Keenum Houston 4.82   32.5     8'7
Ryan Lindley San Diego State 4.90   29.5 4.45 7.52 9'0
Kirk Cousins Michigan State 4.93   28.5 4.50 7.05 9'1
Kellen Moore Boise State 4.94   27.0 4.56 7.41 8'3
Nick Foles Arizona 5.14   30.5     9'4
 
post #237 of 288

There is no question that QBs are becoming more athletic but I'm not sure the zone read offense will take off in the NFL. I think it might end up more like the wildcat in the fact that defenses will figure it out and shut it down. So far it seems to be working for some teams but I'm not sure about the longevity of these types of QBs. I mean the Redskins look much improved until RG3 breaks a collar bone or blows out a knee. The other big thing is in college it works well because the better QBs that run it are generally one of the best athletes on the field and get away from most LBs. However in the NFL they aren't just running past people and the more hits the more chance they have of a bad injury.  This is why IMO the pro style offense will never go away and I do think RG3 can run a pro style offense no problem.

post #238 of 288

It's OK Ron.  Everything is cyclical in sports with old ideas being used again because current Offenses and Defenses won't be planning for it.  The 46 defense was excellent at stopping pocket QBs, but was figured out.  Fast QBs like RGIII can attack larger defenses that are built more to stop the run.  Things will keep cycling on both sides of the ball, which is great for the fans.

 

I also think that all the players are getting more athletic because of better training and nutrition.  Guys like Vince Wilfork look plump, but I think he could beat any of us in a 10 yard sprint.

post #239 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

It's OK Ron.  Everything is cyclical in sports with old ideas being used again because current Offenses and Defenses won't be planning for it.  The 46 defense was excellent at stopping pocket QBs, but was figured out.  Fast QBs like RGIII can attack larger defenses that are built more to stop the run.  Things will keep cycling on both sides of the ball, which is great for the fans.

 

I also think that all the players are getting more athletic because of better training and nutrition.  Guys like Vince Wilfork look plump, but I think he could beat any of us in a 10 yard sprint.

Yeah, I've always heard that the NFL is a copy cat league and now I believe it.

 

Vince Wilfork is a beast of a human being. I saw him line up last night and push guys O-Linemen deep into the Niner backfield. Hell of a game that was by the way. So thankful we didnt completely choke and give that game away.

post #240 of 288

Yeah, the PATs gave that game away with the turnovers.  It did have a playoff feel though, didn't it.

post #241 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 It did have a playoff feel though, didn't it.

 

Big time. I'm guessing we'll see the rematch in the Super Bowl.

post #242 of 288

We have been talking about the fast mobile quarterback who can through the ball accurately for 30 years now. QB's might be getting more accurate but the number of guys who can run 4.5s AND be good passing QBs is pretty small and you rarely have more than 1 or 2 in the league at the same time. Given the choice between an good runner who is a poor passer and a good passer who is a poor runner, you always pick the better passer.

 

Eventually RGIII will have to learn to be more selective in his runs (See someone like McNabb) if he wants to last. Otherwise he will be a Vick type QB who is awesome for 10 games a year (well Vick was awesome back in the day....) but who misses a couple of games every year. I expect that RGIII to make that evolution. I expect the designed runs for RGIII will drop a bit but he will still be able to rack up the yards when the play breaks down.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clubchamp View Post

There is no question that QBs are becoming more athletic but I'm not sure the zone read offense will take off in the NFL. I think it might end up more like the wildcat in the fact that defenses will figure it out and shut it down. So far it seems to be working for some teams but I'm not sure about the longevity of these types of QBs. I mean the Redskins look much improved until RG3 breaks a collar bone or blows out a knee. The other big thing is in college it works well because the better QBs that run it are generally one of the best athletes on the field and get away from most LBs. However in the NFL they aren't just running past people and the more hits the more chance they have of a bad injury.  This is why IMO the pro style offense will never go away and I do think RG3 can run a pro style offense no problem.

post #243 of 288

Sheeesh. I'm sooo glad I played golf instead of watching the Gmen get embarassed. It sounded like Coughlin did not have any confidence in the run without Bradshaw, and when the Giants don't run the ball, Eli does most of the running - for his life.

post #244 of 288
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

Yeah, the PATs gave that game away with the turnovers.  It did have a playoff feel though, didn't it.

Crazy game. One of the best I've watched all year despite the Pats losing.
post #245 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post

Yeah, the PATs gave that game away with the turnovers.  It did have a playoff feel though, didn't it.

typical patsy fan speak - nobody could be better than us so we only lose when we *give* it to the other team b2_tongue.gif
post #246 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by meenman View Post

typical patsy fan speak - nobody could be better than us so we only lose when we *give* it to the other team b2_tongue.gif

The 49ers did plenty of "giving" as well in the form of TONS of yardage. I was not a neutral observer but a few friends of mine watching were and most of them said it was one of the best games they watched all year. Back and forth, all around a great game.

The impressive team this weekend was the Falcons. I thought the Giants when they needed to win would show up. I thought wrong.
post #247 of 288
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by meenman View Post

typical patsy fan speak - nobody could be better than us so we only lose when we *give* it to the other team b2_tongue.gif

How's 8-6 feel? a2_wink.gif
post #248 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post


How's 8-6 feel? a2_wink.gif


As a Giants fan I'd say for my team it sucks.

 

But it is still better than the 7-7 we were at this point last year.

post #249 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post

How's 8-6 feel? a2_wink.gif

It really doesn't hurt since I have accepted the fact that the g-men don't believe in 1st round byes. For us, it's not over until it's over.
post #250 of 288
Quote:
typical patsy fan speak - nobody could be better than us so we only lose when we *give* it to the other team b2_tongue.gif

When a team that was +24 on turnovers goes -3 on turnovers for a game, it is a give away.  

post #251 of 288

Well the Rams seem to be back to "normal." Maybe the world isn't ending after all.

post #252 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonK88S View Post

Well the Rams seem to be back to "normal." Maybe the world isn't ending after all.

Hahhah I was thinking the same thing with the way the Browns forgot to show up on Sunday.  Looks like the polar shift is no longer in play?

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