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What if Tour Pros Used Wooden Clubs? - Page 2

post #19 of 48
10/8/12 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingWhacker View Post

 

I don't think going back to wood would make that much sense but I can't let your comment about Louis Oosthuizen go without saying this guy has one the best, most conventional swings in golf.  He is no flash in the pan.  He will win more events and he will win more majors because his swing is freaking perfect.  If there's somebody out there who is a flash in the pan and could probably not hit a wood driver very well - it would be Rickie Fowler.  It might be Tommy Gainey.  Dustin Johnson without all that length.  But Louis, I believe, would do just fine. Seriously - check out a youtube analysis of Oosthuizen's swing and tell me it's not as close to perfect as it gets.


Nothing against Oosthuizen but a perfect swing does not guarantee a great player although he has a fine all around game. Tom Purtzer and Steve Elkington had picture perfect swings yet one major between them.

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post #20 of 48
10/8/12 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Gibson View Post

I agree with the idea that you cannot get the same performance out of wood as you can with metal... wood is not nearly as consistent as metal. It has defects and a mind of its own... trust me, I'm a woodworker and Luthier...

As far as making pros play woods that are less forgiving, many already play blades, which have not changed much at all in the last 50+ years... the shafts have but the heads have not... the sweet spot is the same size, and they don't have a problem hitting it. I think making the sweet spot smaller on woods would have a very slight changer in distance, but Bubba does not hit it 330 with miss hits.... same with COR. the ball is still gunna go.

We as mortals would suffer because the endorsements and r&d would drop off because the best are not actively engaged in driving the development... why would a company like taylormade work to develop newer tech if the average joe is not going to get to see the big names hitting it on TV... I guess it may be like cavity backs vs blades, but I don't think there would be near as much hype in the metal wood department. Tiger plays Nike clubs, but his irons are custom made blades, but if you buy some Nike irons, your still playing the same brand as Tiger. If Tiger chooses them, then they must have their heads on right in the R&D department... I don't think this will translate in the wood department, because there is no advantage to playing the same brand as X because that club is designed to limit and not do anything specifically better for the player.

Who's to say how much actual wood would be in these new clubs? I think it would be more of a carbon composite design.

In any case, this is a potential marketing ploy because titanium is probably close to hitting a ceiling in performance.

They get underground movements of good golfers to push for a more traditional direction in golf. This way they can open up a new technology whereupon all of us would need to replace all our drivers to be USGA compliant.

I can also see the potential replacement of irons with "wooden" clubs like those pictures of clubs from the 1700s. Super-wood-irons?

Plus these new composite materials are not as tough as titanium or steel, so to maintain higher performance you need to replace your clubs every 20 rounds or so. Better players might need to replace some every round.

Money to be made...
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post #21 of 48
10/8/12 at 12:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Gibson View Post

I agree with the idea that you cannot get the same performance out of wood as you can with metal... wood is not nearly as consistent as metal. It has defects and a mind of its own... trust me, I'm a woodworker and Luthier...

As far as making pros play woods that are less forgiving, many already play blades, which have not changed much at all in the last 50+ years... the shafts have but the heads have not... the sweet spot is the same size, and they don't have a problem hitting it. I think making the sweet spot smaller on woods would have a very slight changer in distance, but Bubba does not hit it 330 with miss hits.... same with COR. the ball is still gunna go.

We as mortals would suffer because the endorsements and r&d would drop off because the best are not actively engaged in driving the development... why would a company like taylormade work to develop newer tech if the average joe is not going to get to see the big names hitting it on TV... I guess it may be like cavity backs vs blades, but I don't think there would be near as much hype in the metal wood department. Tiger plays Nike clubs, but his irons are custom made blades, but if you buy some Nike irons, your still playing the same brand as Tiger. If Tiger chooses them, then they must have their heads on right in the R&D department... I don't think this will translate in the wood department, because there is no advantage to playing the same brand as X because that club is designed to limit and not do anything specifically better for the player.

Who's to say how much actual wood would be in these new clubs? I think it would be more of a carbon composite design.

In any case, this is a potential marketing ploy because titanium is probably close to hitting a ceiling in performance.

They get underground movements of good golfers to push for a more traditional direction in golf. This way they can open up a new technology whereupon all of us would need to replace all our drivers to be USGA compliant.

I can also see the potential replacement of irons with "wooden" clubs like those pictures of clubs from the 1700s. Super-wood-irons?

Plus these new composite materials are not as tough as titanium or steel, so to maintain higher performance you need to replace your clubs every 20 rounds or so. Better players might need to replace some every round.

Money to be made...

You've missed the point I suspect.
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post #22 of 48
10/8/12 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchott View Post


Nothing against Oosthuizen but a perfect swing does not guarantee a great player although he has a fine all around game. Tom Purtzer and Steve Elkington had picture perfect swings yet one major between them.


You seriously don't think Oosthuizen will have a great career?  It took Elkington 5 years to win 6 events including a major.  It took Luis 2 years to win 5 events including a major - and that was a wire to wire lead for the Open Championship.  That's a swing that holds up under pressure and with a great golfer in charge of it.  I would predict that he wins more than 10 total events and 2 or 3 majors before he's done. 

 

Sorry to hijack the thread - isn't this supposed to be about space-age composite wooden drivers? :)

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post #23 of 48
10/8/12 at 6:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingWhacker View Post


You seriously don't think Oosthuizen will have a great career?  It took Elkington 5 years to win 6 events including a major.  It took Luis 2 years to win 5 events including a major - and that was a wire to wire lead for the Open Championship.  That's a swing that holds up under pressure and with a great golfer in charge of it.  I would predict that he wins more than 10 total events and 2 or 3 majors before he's done. 

 

Sorry to hijack the thread - isn't this supposed to be about space-age composite wooden drivers? :)

That's not quite what I intended it to be. I was really more just thinking out loud, wondering what these players would be like if they had clubs similar to a player's from the '50s. It's gone quite z8_offtopic.gif

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post #24 of 48
10/8/12 at 7:21pm

Sam Snead. famous golfer for many decades, used both hickory wood and steel shafted clubs during his career..  His comment on the steel was favorable mostly due to consistency and certainly not length gained.   For Sam, one hickory shafted six iron went 200 yds, the next one only 190 yds.  But steel shafts delivered the same result time after time.    

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post #25 of 48
10/8/12 at 8:05pm

Baseball doesn't allow a change to the ball either. If you want to stop progress you should use the old balls as well.

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post #26 of 48
10/8/12 at 9:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_miller View Post

You've missed the point I suspect.

Nope, I just don't think is is going to happen without some serious monetary reason.
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post #27 of 48
10/8/12 at 9:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazingWhacker View Post


You seriously don't think Oosthuizen will have a great career?  It took Elkington 5 years to win 6 events including a major.  It took Luis 2 years to win 5 events including a major - and that was a wire to wire lead for the Open Championship.  That's a swing that holds up under pressure and with a great golfer in charge of it.  I would predict that he wins more than 10 total events and 2 or 3 majors before he's done. 

Sorry to hijack the thread - isn't this supposed to be about space-age composite wooden drivers? :)

Sure, why not? I doubt very much that there will be wood clubs made the way they were made 80 years ago.

I also think that if there is money to be made, someone will think of a way to do it.

Space-age ? a1_smile.gif
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post #28 of 48
10/8/12 at 10:09pm

Jack Nicklaus played with a persimmon driver, and 3W too.  He was one of the longest hitters of his era, but he didn't average close to 300 yards.  Then too, he didn't hit his 8I 170 yards either.  Some of that can be chalked up to typically stronger lofts on clubs of the same numerical designation today, but more of it is due to the ball.  In Jack's heyday, to get added length, you had to go to a ball with a lot less spin.  That meant poor performance on the green.  In order to get the needed action for the short game, wound balata was the only choice, but they could only pack so much potential energy into those materials.  Now we have balls which have reduced spin off the driver, yet still good spin with the irons.  Add a high tech 46" graphite shaft to that persimmon head and it's bound to get more distance just from increased clubhead speed.

 

While a persimmon driver probably wouldn't be as long as a titanium one, even with today's ball and a graphite shaft, it would certainly be longer than it was back in the days when Titleist Tour Balata 100 ruled the fairways.

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post #29 of 48
10/8/12 at 10:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

Jack Nicklaus played with a persimmon driver, and 3W too.  He was one of the longest hitters of his era, but he didn't average close to 300 yards.  Then too, he didn't hit his 8I 170 yards either.  Some of that can be chalked up to typically stronger lofts on clubs of the same numerical designation today, but more of it is due to the ball.  In Jack's heyday, to get added length, you had to go to a ball with a lot less spin.  That meant poor performance on the green.  In order to get the needed action for the short game, wound balata was the only choice, but they could only pack so much potential energy into those materials.  Now we have balls which have reduced spin off the driver, yet still good spin with the irons.  Add a high tech 46" graphite shaft to that persimmon head and it's bound to get more distance just from increased clubhead speed.

While a persimmon driver probably wouldn't be as long as a titanium one, even with today's ball and a graphite shaft, it would certainly be longer than it was back in the days when Titleist Tour Balata 100 ruled the fairways.

I read somewhere that a ball spends more time on the face of wooden drivers and even more time for wound balata. I wonder how far into the next fairway Bubba Watson would have to start the ball?
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post #30 of 48
10/9/12 at 2:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Datsyuk View Post


I read somewhere that a ball spends more time on the face of wooden drivers and even more time for wound balata. I wonder how far into the next fairway Bubba Watson would have to start the ball?


Bubba would never be a tour player with his swing if metalwoods had never been invented.  His, "homegrown" swing wouldnt cut it.

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post #31 of 48
10/9/12 at 3:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer View Post


Bubba would never be a tour player with his swing if metalwoods had never been invented.  His, "homegrown" swing wouldnt cut it.

I guess he'd hook it, then?

 

BADUMTSHHH

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post #32 of 48
10/9/12 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Duf View Post

Hi everyone, new to thesandtrap, but it seems like a great site! Woo-hoo, first post!

But anyways, I was talking to someone in the clubhouse at my local course and we got on to talking about USGA regulations/rules. Why is it that MLB players cannot use easier to hit, more forgiving metal bats, yet Tour players are able to use high-tech modern golf clubs?

Forcing Tour players to use old fashioned wooden clubs would really weed out the field and show who the truly elite players are. If you can hit those, you can hit anything. And I'm not saying getting rid of modern clubs altogether though; make those clubs available to the public, but force the players on Tour (maybe even college...) to use wooden clubs. Jason Dufner even said he'd be on board as long as courses are shortened to reasonable lengths.

Just wanted to see what other people's opinions are about this, thanks!

Here's your answer....

http://www.zurichna.com/zna/media/news-releases/current-releases/100yearchallenge.htm


Prior to the Zurich Open this year several pros played in a 3 hole charity event using 100 year old equipment. The team of Ben Crane and Camilo Villegas won with each shooting -1 for the 3 hole event. Also notable was Luke Donald's eagle.

Like the commercial says......these guys are good!
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post #33 of 48
10/9/12 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciusWooding View Post

I guess he'd hook it, then?

 

BADUMTSHHH


Duck hook, all day long.

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post #34 of 48
10/9/12 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer View Post


Bubba would never be a tour player with his swing if metalwoods had never been invented.  His, "homegrown" swing wouldnt cut it.


Insane comment. Players like Bubba have a ton of talent and great hand/eye coordination. He would have no trouble playing with Persimmon woods. His swing would have evolved to suit the clubs.

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post #35 of 48
10/9/12 at 10:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchott View Post


Insane comment. Players like Bubba have a ton of talent and great hand/eye coordination. He would have no trouble playing with Persimmon woods. His swing would have evolved to suit the clubs.

Agreed, Bubba is really powerful. The only reason he would probably not be successful with the 80 year old persimmon wood, is that it would most likely explode from impact. Titanium is one of the toughest materials commonly available for use in golf clubs.

I'm not going off on a tangent on modern wood club designs again, but I find it very unrealistic to consider using 80 year old technology for many reasons including those mentioned by other posters. Club manufacturers need to produce the highest performing heads they can, for us.
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post #36 of 48
10/10/12 at 2:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchott View Post


Insane comment. Players like Bubba have a ton of talent and great hand/eye coordination. He would have no trouble playing with Persimmon woods. His swing would have evolved to suit the clubs.


You hope.  Bubba couldnt hit a straight shot if his life depended on it and persimmon woods werent nearly as forgiving as today's metalwoods are.  My bet is Bubba would be a minitour nobody if metalwoods had never been invented.  Its amazing how you win 1 major and people suddenly think you are a God, even though for years you were a nobody on tour.

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